Late Night Dynamite 9/22 & Regular Night Dynamite 9/23

[Godfrey]

23 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

Considering all the fuckery that was going on from the Dark Order I don't think it hurts Orange that much.  I don't know if it came across that way but by coming back despite Brodie's goons it if anything kept him strong enough to not look like a goober.  If DO wasn't there then I would agree with your point.

I just rewatched it to be sure. Silver's distraction at the end does cinch the win for Lee and OC doesn't look too bad but this is your big attraction your building, AEW's Undertaker as some have said, and this role didn't need to be filled by him. He didn't look like a goober but he didn't exactly look like a winner either.

[EVA]

Wait, people are for real comparing OC to Undertaker? All the lulz.

[Hagan]

AEW is the only company ever where the weekly TV is scrutinized as if if we all dropped 70 dollars on a Pay Per View. 

[Godfrey]

Or maybe it’s fun to have weekly wrestling you give a shit about again.

[Hagan]

That's fair. And don't get me wrong - I love the show. But some of the reactions on some random segment being bad is like it's the Fingerpoke of Doom. Wednesday was a perfectly fine show. 

[EVA]

I guess I have a hard time tracking the discourse on wins and losses in this company.  Apparently, no heel over a certain height/weight should ever lose...but also no up and coming babyfaces should be losing either.  Nobody should lose in AEW!  It should be just be all squash matches against Local Talent until some indeterminate point in the future when, finally, after the audience has been brought near to the point of climax by all the meaningless matches on TV, it will be okay for someone to lose, at last.

Edited September 25, 2020 by EVA

[Godfrey]

28 minutes ago, EVA said:

I guess I have a hard time tracking the discourse on wins and losses in this company.  Apparently, no heel over a certain height/weight should ever lose...but also no up and coming babyfaces should be losing either.  Nobody should lose in AEW!  It should be just be all squash matches against Local Talent until some indeterminate point in the future when, finally, after the audience has been brought near to the point of climax by all the meaningless matches on TV, it will be okay for someone to lose, at last.

Haha, okay, that's fair, I'm definitely guilty of that. I like big guys to be dominant, I also think Orange Cassidy is coming off a high profile feud and could be hurt by a loss like this. I'm not advocating for Jungleboy to win every match and I'm not saying Lance Archer can't lose, I'm merely critiquing the way in which it is getting accomplished from a fan's standpoint because I like OC and Lee and Archer and I want them to continue to be successful. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Godfrey

[Jenalysis]

I don't think a loss to Brodie hurts at all.  Cody got squashed by Brodie, Brodie's a legit main eventer in AEW.  OC is not at that level yet- and might end up being the AEW equivalent to Yano, a good you can have beat or lose to anyone and stay over. 

 

OC's got a great spot already, he sells a lot of merch, he's over, and he doesn't have to take as many bumps as most folks.

[Linus]

Some thoughts on this weke's AEW Late Night Dynamite and AEW regular night Dynamite...

* Benjamin bloomin' Carter has SUCH an upside to him, and ever since my pal Pat (who works for Channel island World Wrestling) told me about him, and then I saw him, like, a week later, I've taken him on as a personal vicarious project. I'm so happy for him, and so blown away by him, and I can't imagine how Pat must feel. His match with Scorpio Sky was SWEET and I loved the way Jericho put him over - in fact, the way Jericho put's EVERYONE over, by saying how he hates them because they're so good. Yay Ben!

* How good is Anna Jay? She's, like, a year in and made Brandi Rhodes look like a million dollars.

* I don't know what the hell happened during the opening tag match on Dynamite but it was a MESS. I go easier on Janela than most but he was as bad as the rest, with only Sonny Kiss probably coming out of it without too much blame (and that because he's so green). The second coming of Miro has been weird so far and I want them to fix it.

* Continuity Cop Kingston got his shot at the title and then him and Mox HAD A FIGHT. Eddie cut the promo of all promos, and the match was SO good, exactly what you want from these guys, like nothing you'd see on the other side. And Eddie lost without really losing, too, so it keeps him alive. Such good booking, and entirely on the fly after a late Covid-19 thing from Lance Vance. Now Eddie's got to sort out the Allie situation...

* The whole FTR thing so far has been SO flat, despite Tully's best efforts, and I wish they'd just let them wrestle.

* Talking of tag-team clusterfucks, the women's tag just fell apart, and you can most of the blame on Ivelisse who's wrestling like she's permanently concussed. Diamante deserves better, frankly, and there are a dozen enhancement women who are more worthy of a spot on Dynamite than Ivelisse. Shida's also looked a bit off, and Thunder Rosa being so constantly good is making her look like a weak champion. I'm sure there's an easy fix but I'm not sure what it is.

* Considering he used to play a man who only made that one weird sound in WWE, Brodie Lee's promos are amazing, even if you do expect him to throw in a FUCK, like what he does on BTE. Speaking of, this week's BTE was hilarious, and John Silver's character from that show bleeding over into Dynamite is brilliant. OC losing the title fight didn't hurt him, either, because he's not supposed to be a top, top guy, and that's fine.

* "Oh, that's not a real pocket"

* Fuck Jim Ross. Week after week Excalibur has to cover for him, and even Schiavone did it this week. Taz is so good with both those guys on Dark and it's time for Ross to quietly disappear.

[Bryan]

11 hours ago, Big Z said:

Probably making the mistake of engaging ENO version 25, but AEW is doing quite well for itself. While not perfect and still with plenty of room to grow, it is in the strongest position a non-WWE American wrestling company has been in since the 1990's. I can easily see a path where it is the #1 North American wrestling company in the next decade (already in a strong place with the moneymaking demographic, and has great loyalty among its core fans in buying whatever products AEW is selling). The overall quality of the product is still insanely high over a year in (to where a PPV with three four-star plus matches and six matches three and a half stars or better is actually viewed as a mild disappointment). 

Also, it has been stated before, but the booking of both Archer and Brodie Lee has been very good on the whole. They have wisely established Moxley as the top overall star in the company, and the champion needs to beat credible challengers. Cody is just a hair below that (and while he may be a bit divisive on this board, he is still mega-over with the overall audience), and again, no harm in losing to him. Hell, the ending of the Cody-Archer TNT title match almost protected the heel too much, as the face basically needed outside interference to win. 

Having your top guys beat credible challengers is one thing. Bringing in a new guy to dominate jobbers and underneath guys only to lose their first  big ppv match is another.

If these guys had gone on months long tears of going through established guys so they actually looked like unstoppable monsters the top guys’ victories over them would mean more and they’d potentially be established as draws when they did lose.

There’s probably a reason the match with Moxley wasn’t scheduled for the next ppv.

Beating up jobbers, Colt Cabana (no offense to him), and then losing to Cody isn’t the recipe for creating a star.

They rushed it but maybe they don’t care and felt they had to because of how much inexperienced talent and how many guys have no shot at becoming stars they stupidly signed.

[Craig H]

Brodie's promo was fucking outstanding. I was waiting for him to tear down the set. It's so fucking cool getting to see him do his own thing after saying all of 5 things in WWE for however many years. This dude is a fucking treat and scary as hell.

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

Agree with the comments re Orange Cassidy not needing to take the loss.

Especially as Matt Cardona is right there not doing much else and would have made much more sense storyline wise.

[Custos]

5 hours ago, Craig H said:

Brodie's promo was fucking outstanding. I was waiting for him to tear down the set. It's so fucking cool getting to see him do his own thing after saying all of 5 things in WWE for however many years. This dude is a fucking treat and scary as hell.

I get the wonky logic of the heel dictating the revenge stipulation and all, but this was so good I don’t think it matters. Brodie had that Mick Foley quality where you totally believe in the moment and in the imminent danger.
I expected Harper to bring the snowflakes and the work rate, not to be in contention (and with tippy top promo guys like Jericho and Kingston) for most entertaining non-wrestling stuff between BTE, the Colt interactions and this.

[Big Z]

2 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

Agree with the comments re Orange Cassidy not needing to take the loss.

Especially as Matt Cardona is right there not doing much else and would have made much more sense storyline wise.

For a company that rightly tries to maintain a structure of wins and losses mattering, Orange deserved a title match after two consecutive wins over the former AEW champion. Losing with interference to a pretty dominant champ is nothing to be ashamed about, and should do little to hurt his overall popularity (especially with a pretty smart fanbase like AEW has). Also, with just four PPV's a year (the right amount IMO), you are going to have some quality titles matches on TV (especially as you continue to build the TV brand also). Orange-Brodie was a good TV attraction match where both guys looked pretty good, and will come out of it at a minimum at the same level that they entered it.

[matt925]

12 minutes ago, Big Z said:

For a company that rightly tries to maintain a structure of wins and losses mattering, Orange deserved a title match after two consecutive wins over the former AEW champion. Losing with interference to a pretty dominant champ is nothing to be ashamed about, and should do little to hurt his overall popularity (especially with a pretty smart fanbase like AEW has). Also, with just four PPV's a year (the right amount IMO), you are going to have some quality titles matches on TV (especially as you continue to build the TV brand also). Orange-Brodie was a good TV attraction match where both guys looked pretty good, and will come out of it at a minimum at the same level that they entered it.

I agree but I feel 6-8 is the sweet spot. They’ve addressed this this year with the special dynamites between the ppvs, but three months is too long to stretch out most feuds. 
 

I also really dislike the idea of automatically having a ppv every month. Every promoter wants the big fight feel but that only happens when it feels organic and has time to build. Having 4 TVs and a ppv, 4 TVs and a ppv, is too structured and hurts that. I feel like they should at least go up to 6, but it’s fun having the “big” dynamites. Blood and guts would have been awesome. 

[Big Z]

52 minutes ago, matt925 said:

I agree but I feel 6-8 is the sweet spot. They’ve addressed this this year with the special dynamites between the ppvs, but three months is too long to stretch out most feuds. 
 

I also really dislike the idea of automatically having a ppv every month. Every promoter wants the big fight feel but that only happens when it feels organic and has time to build. Having 4 TVs and a ppv, 4 TVs and a ppv, is too structured and hurts that. I feel like they should at least go up to 6, but it’s fun having the “big” dynamites. Blood and guts would have been awesome. 

Three months should be nothing to stretch out a feud, and I hope that AEW can re-condition American wrestling fans on that. Dusty and the Horsemen feuded for years and drew tons of money. Stories/feuds can take a temporary pause at times, but still go on for years. I think there is another year or so in the potential Omega-Hangman story. Say Omega beats Hangman at the next PPV, wins the title from Moxley, and Hangman then takes the title from Omega at All Out next year.

Also, I think AEW could not charge $50 for 6-8 PPV's a year (as loyal as I am to the company, I'd likely have to pick and choose 4-5 a year, where 4 a year are no-brainer purchases for me), and PPV's need to be special attractions to continue to be stable source of revenue for the company (consistently get the 100K or so buys now, with strong potential growth post-pandemic with live crowds again and the economy hopefully starting to improve). There will be some pressure for Full Gear to better received critically compared to All Out, and they should deliver as AEW has shown a great ability to rebound from minor missteps in the past (and TV so far has been excellent post All-Out).

Edited September 26, 2020 by Big Z

[The Natural]

15 hours ago, Craig H said:

Brodie's promo was fucking outstanding. I was waiting for him to tear down the set. It's so fucking cool getting to see him do his own thing after saying all of 5 things in WWE for however many years. This dude is a fucking treat and scary as hell.

This. Also: Yeah, FUCK, yeah, FUCK!

[HarryArchieGus]

On 9/24/2020 at 5:28 PM, Bryan said:

Yeah, but even with Cage why give him the FTW title before the match with Moxley? He could’ve gotten his heat back from that finish and having Taz award him the title to save his job and Cage acted like he was an actual champion. The way they did it, Cage just looked like a failure and the FTW belt means nothing.

There have been so many things in AEW were if they’d just thought through things better and done a little differently they’d be in a much better place.

FTW talk is on point.  And absolutely they need to think things through. 
 

On 9/25/2020 at 2:03 AM, Big Z said:

Probably making the mistake of engaging ENO version 25, but AEW is doing quite well for itself. While not perfect and still with plenty of room to grow, it is in the strongest position a non-WWE American wrestling company has been in since the 1990's. I can easily see a path where it is the #1 North American wrestling company in the next decade (already in a strong place with the moneymaking demographic, and has great loyalty among its core fans in buying whatever products AEW is selling). The overall quality of the product is still insanely high over a year in (to where a PPV with three four-star plus matches and six matches three and a half stars or better is actually viewed as a mild disappointment). 

Really well said.  

Some boneheaded stuff throughout this week's programming, but a lovely Anna Jay-Brandi bout, the excellent Brodie Lee promo, Carter-Sky and Kingston-Mox all made for some nice highlights. 

I'm not a Cody hater, I dig his act.  The physical attack on the Dark Order was terrific.  The hair's a bit hilarious.  I sometimes, no, I always wish AEW would bypass intros/intro music on surprise beatdowns.  Just rush out there unexpected.  I don't need to know everybody in production was in on it.  

Ivelisse was as bad here as the critics say, and deserves to be cut.  It's a shame.  I thought she was performing well in that tag tournament and was hoping she could help elevate things.  I was sorely wrong.  I'm not sure what the deal is with Diamante either.  She is clearly not ready for TV.  Get her some serious reps already. 

Edited September 26, 2020 by HarryArchieGus

[AxB]

Diamante started her career in 2008. She's had reps.

[Elsalvajeloco]

3 hours ago, AxB said:

Diamante started her career in 2008. She's had reps.

To be fair, wrestling on the indies is different than wrestling on national television week in, week out. Shida's been around since 2008 too, and it's not like she didn't have some rough matches here and there. You can be around for awhile and still be green as hell.

[Goodear]

I really think the Orange-Lee match was a perfect example of a time where a disqualification finish would have been a better choice and narratively fit. This assumes they have an actual plan for Cassidy after the Jericho feud where you need to maintain his popularity. Since the point of the thing is to put over Cody's big return, the segment should be built around that and demonstrate that he's had all he can stands and he can't stands no more.

So let's alter the construction point by point.

1) Orange has Lee rocking and hits the Orange Punch causing Lee to stagger but not fall (because he's your monster). Orange sets for it again and gets swarmed by the Dark Order. Lee doesn't lose because he didn't go flat and Orange is protected in an angle he's not really a participant in.

2) The entire Dark Order mauls Cassidy causing The Best Friends to come out.  They have to come save their friend but we've established that they're injured so it doesn't hurt them to not be super effective. The Nightmare Family also comes out because they've got obvious issues with the Dark Order. I would suggest that music is not played for any of this and that all of these people come at the same time. 

3) Brandi gets a moment where she gets her hands on Anna Jay but gets stopped by Brody. You further reestablish Brandi as a good guy (because fuck why was that ever put in question) looking for vengeance on the member of Dark Order who choked her out and the one she can physically take.

4) Lee puts Brandi in jeopardy, setting her up for a powerbomb or something and THAT draws out Cody to race from the back, shoving officials out of the way with a weapon in hand. He sends the heels packing and gets a short interaction with Lee before Brody powders and gets held back by his mob.

As it stood, Cody comes out to save someone he's never interacted with and allowed his family to fight on their own which is odd from a narrative standpoint. It not only makes him vengeful but also protective which is a fine character motivation that can be used later as The Dark Order uses Brandi as a way to get to Cody until the good guys find a way to tilt the balance. In a perfect world, it should be Cody demanding the gimmick stipulation at the end of the feud that would keep The Dark Order out of things so he could get revenge.

Honestly they should have stepped up with the Dark Order in the last few weeks making them emboldened by their success and had them winning all the time. The 8 man at the PPV should have been a chance to ratchet up the heat rather than a release with the Good Guys winning without Cody's involvement. The should have dropped all of the shades of grey booking with Allie and Brandi and just build sympathy. 

[A_K]

On 9/25/2020 at 3:59 PM, EVA said:

Wait, people are for real comparing OC to Undertaker? All the lulz.

By the time he was OC's age, the Undertaker was already onto the American Badass gimmick. The more you know.

Edited September 29, 2020 by A_K

[Infinit]

Taker was a plodding, slothy ginger when he started in the WWE...parallels can be made lol