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All Out II - 9/5/2020


Dolfan in NYC

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1 minute ago, Casey said:

Give me this at Revolution you fucking cowards!

God...a different president, a vaccine, C2E2 happening, Revolution happening with the same arena and packed house, and Hangman beating Omega for the title would be a decent start to reversing this shit year. 

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53 minutes ago, hammerva said:

I really hope that Lance Archer actually beats Moxley for the title because if he can't beat Moxley then it is painfully clear they are just waiting for a WWE or Impact guy to get released to put the belt on him.   Always believed that AEW will never be a serious promotion until they have a world champion that isn't a WWE cast off.    MJF doesn't need to be a champion right now put it would have been good for the company

 

This may have been a decent point in mid 2000's with Impact, but even then there were cases like Christian where a clear high-level talent was not getting a fair shake in his current company. Nowadays, with even half the current platform of AEW, a company with decent financial footing and solid booking could make a ton of money with the talent that WWE is squandering. AEW is plenty good enough to make good money (and has already) with guys that wisely left or were released with WWE. Any experienced wrestling fan could spot the talent of Brodie Lee, and even the brief singles opportunities he received in WWE (Dolph ladder match at TLC 2014, Elimination Chamber 2017 against Orton) showed that they were missing the boat with him. Say what you will about Matt Cardona, but he was always over any time he got a small opportunity. Not as confident about him re-capturing the magic in 2020 (at least at the level of his 2011 run when he was mega over), but past precedent shows that it can happen. FTR is an awesome heel tag team (just go back to their NXT run in 2015-2016), and expect them to have a good run as champs as long as they get decent opponents (plenty of interest in programs against Bucks, Best Friends, Jurassic Express, and hopefully a properly cast face Lucha Brothers). Hope their run extends to when fans come back and AEW travels again, as I think that a live, good-sized crowd will also add to their matches. Other posters have correctly identified the ludicrous mentions of Jericho and Moxley (and Jericho is already starting to wind his way down the card a bit). If anything, I think AEW will have to make tough decisions in the future on which squandered WWE talents they pick up and which ones to pass on, cause I expect them to plenty of wrestlers to chose from after their current WWE deals end.

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I love the dynamic because with Hangman you can lean into a bit of Okada losing to Tanahashi at the Dome the first time when everybody thought it was his time and the Sami Zayn NXT title failures path with Hangman. He's at his best when he's a sympathetic underdog filled with doubt. He may need to fail even more when you think he's got things figured out to really test his mettle and whether he's over being a sad drunk. Then he can beat Omega in the rematch and do a gimmick blowoff rubber match for his first defense. He'd be a made (hang)man. 

Edited by Jiji
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26 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Count me in for thinking Omega wins the title. 

BTW, while everyone was going on about Matt Hardy, no one talked about what a fucking asshole Omega was. In terms of being an asshole and a piece of shit, this ranks near the top. Hangman shows all match that Kenny can trust him, Kenny blasts Hangman in the face with a V Trigger, Hangman takes TWO spike piledrivers from FTR, and to Kenny, it's all Hangman's fault.

I really, really hope the story they're telling is that Omega is a narcissistic piece of shit for wrongly blaming Hangman when it's Omega's fault. That seems to be the direction and I guess Hangman is finally the lone wolf he should be.

This was the story beat that stood out the most and Hangman continues to be one of the best actors in wrestling. 

I just wanna second that. It was a solo effort by Hangman in the last minutes that won them the title way back on the cruise, Hangman always stood out in the matches as the more focused and more dangerous man and now Kenny was the one who ultimately fucked up, brought on their demise and then couldn't help Hangman while it showed what a tough man to beat Hangman is.

I can't imagine how one could not feel sympathy for Hangman in all this. Such great storytelling.

Also, I thought he looked really cool in tights.

Edited by MrKothoga
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Speaking of that match and what followed - I watched Brian Zane's review, and he mentioned the post-match backstage angle where Omega storms away to a car, and gives the Bucks an ultimatum. Did anyone else feel confused by that like he did? I didn't, I took the Bucks' hesitance to answer Omega as they were taken aback by his attitude, but ultimately they'll side with him because they've already A) shown a more heelish side, and B) kicked Page out of the Elite (even though he already tried to leave MONTHS ago).

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1 hour ago, hammerva said:

I really hope that Lance Archer actually beats Moxley for the title because if he can't beat Moxley then it is painfully clear they are just waiting for a WWE or Impact guy to get released to put the belt on him.   Always believed that AEW will never be a serious promotion until they have a world champion that isn't a WWE cast off.    MJF doesn't need to be a champion right now put it would have been good for the company

 

I don’t think he’ll win it and I don’t think they’re waiting for a WWE or Impact guy to be released. I think they’re just waiting on the right heel. I don’t think Archer is hot enough as a heel.

AEW badly botched him early on. He’s a monster but Marko Stunt is getting offense in and staggering him hurt him. Not to mention he was fine the next week. Stunt should still be in a neck brace selling the ass beating he got.

And then in his first major feud he loses—His entire reason for being in AEW was supposedly to dethrone him but he failed so he looks like a loser.

Then he beats a bunch of jobbers and wins a gimmick match and is going to be the next champ? I don’t see that.

But him losing his second major feud in the company will pretty much permanently bury him as being believable monster and main event player going forward.

 

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I don't know about that, since I really only watch AEW and old All Japan from the 90s, but he's gotta be up there when it comes to how well he knows his character, his acting ability, story arc since the beginning, etc.

Also, Hangman in pants is so much better than tiny trunks. More Cowboy vibes from that attire, definitely.

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50 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Man, is Hangman the best overall wrestler in the US?

Not sure about that. But the fun of someone with an arc, some direction, someone who’s growing as a performer as we watch him be built up, it’s fun in a way we haven’t gotten at this level in a long time. 

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Just now, Andy in Kansas said:

Not sure about that. But the fun of someone with an arc, some direction, someone who’s growing as a performer as we watch him be built up, it’s fun in a way we haven’t gotten at this level in a long time. 

I think maybe that's it. We just haven't experienced something like this in awhile. 

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What a strange night (er morning) of wrestling.  I chose to watch this in the morning on tape delay to skip some assuredly bad segments (Baker-Swole) and cut down on the running time - I have no threshold for  3 plus hour portions of wrestling.  Man, it felt really great cruising passed that 'cinematic' match that just had to be on the PPV.  

My opener was essentially the original opener: the Bucks-Jurassix.  And as expected it was a darkhorse winner.  Jungle Boy and the Jacksons are all on good runs right now.  Luchasaurus has been really solid too.  I love heelish Bucks, but not sure how they work that into a feud with FTR.  Perhaps they're keeping them apart for awhile.  

I had little to no expectations for the Casino B-Roy.  I clipped this heavily for my viewing.  I have little patience for this kind of play brawl fighting.  That said, it was a ton better than that sloppy ladder match at the last PPV or the previous CBRs.  The takeaways here for me were Will Hobbs and the Shockmastering debut of Sydal.  I don't know Sydal that well.  I was aware of him in his pre-WWE runs, where he was as @Jiji points out a brilliant and boring aerialist.  Arn spoke of him this past week on his pod being in rough shape these days.  And that's what he looked like here.  Will Hobbs is a specimen, and I've been impressed from the little I've seen of him.  I really hope he's ready for a shot.  Nice to see Archer get the duke.  He'll be a nice short program for Mox before the inevitable Cleaner run.  

Hardy-Sammy... what a mess.  It's easy to lay blame and say what should have happened.  That said, certainly some mistakes were made.  I really hope the lessons learned aren't anymore costly than what we already know, but we'll have to wait and see how this plays out.  

Shida-Rosa was terrific.  Rosa completely outshined her, and I really hope she's back for more as she's a nice shot in the arm to the struggling division.  She didn't outshine her tho as much as Reynolds and Silver on the pre-show with the Privates.  Reynolds and especially Silver may need to start winning some matches.  They've been really impressive lately. 

Sabian seems capable on the mic (they really need to give these Dark guys mic time reps on that show), but a wedding angle is the wrestling definition of trash.  The necessary shot at Titan felt like it redeemed the stupidiy of their who gives a shit announcement.  Showing a graphic later as if this were something we should look forward to seeing on Dynamite this week worries me.  This and this show and the past week or so has me worrying that the creative team may be getting burned out.  As for this angle, I don't care at all who the best man is.  If it's somebody debuting it feels like a shitty way to do that.  We'll see I guess.

Dark Order-Team Dustin was very good.  I really like this story of Cabana with the Dark Order and I'll be sad to see it end.  The Dustin post match promo, as others have mentioned, was the best thing on this show. They should really do more of these post match catch-ups. Super Stoked for Dustin-Brodie. 

Omega/Page-FTR didn't meet my lofty expectations, but it was definitely good.  I really liked the touch nearing the end of Kenny trying to revive Hangman after the inadvertent v-trigger.  I also really liked the finish of going to the well twice with the spike piledriver.  The post match was odd, but fine.  It's all leading to the Cleaner and Kenny's inevitable top singles run, so I'm very pleased. 

2 hours ago, matt925 said:

Remember the taped promo Kenny cut last year when it was first announced that Moxley would miss their match? It was fire and I eagerly look forward to more. 

Yes, I do, and I really don't know why I don't hear Kenny talking more week to week.  I hope that changes soon.  Also, the post match (social media exclusive) FTR interview started strong with Tully and kinda lost it's way in there, but loved Wheeler's Nintendo/twitch closing line.  

And I too hope sad Hangman is replaced by give no fucks/hold my beer Hangman soon.  Adam will suffer greatly if this victim shit continues for too long.  It's the kinda shit I would expect from the inevitable firey loser of the first title match.  Not that guy we've been marvelling over since.      

Cassidy-Jericho was worked fine.  The gimmick stip, as expected, gave us the predictable clowning finish to end the feud rather than a decisive victory.  Strange, I haven't noticed anybody mention the total gaffe on OC's completely missed kick late in the contest.  And of course Schiavone tries to recover it, making it 10 fold worse, by telling us about the impact we clearly saw not happening.  Not sure who that missed kick is on, but that was awful.  

I expected Mox-MJef would be okay to good, and it was.  The build to this match was really weak.  MJef's cartoon act seemed to counteract any momentum Mox's promos were providing.  I like Mox essentially cheating  to win here.  Overall tho MJef looked good.  I don't really need a rematch, but nonetheless welcome the inevitable.  

Yeah, commentary was pretty awful tonight.  This trio really grates with their bullshit and hokey sells over such a lengthy show. 

The crowd noise from the phone shot tells me they're making a mistake not capturing the audio of the crowd close-up and sending it to their master mix.  The low crowd volume has been an issue with all their live shows and seems to be one of the reasons the taped shows come off so much better.  Well, that, and the current phase of inconsistent booking.  Overall I can't really say this was a good show, but I mostly had a fun time watching it.  I urge anybody frustrated with the bad segments and lengthy running time to watch on tape delay.  I know I wouldn't feel too hot on it had I watched this live.  

Edited by HarryArchieGus
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haven't read this thread yet, but here's my thoughts:

Janela/Serpentico was fine. i was fairly distracted during it, through no fault of its own.

Private Party picked up a the win over DO3&4. thought the finishing stretch was too long, but an otherwise solid match.

Britt/Swole. generally, a match under these conditions isn't going to be good. this was no different. there were a funny parts that made me chuckle (the novocaine syringe, and Reba screaming "you stabbed her!" in particular) but otherwise didn't do much for me.

Young Bucks/Jurassic Express was good. great high flying, solid Luchasaurus spots, this was a solid match. LOL'd at JR calling JE the "Lucha Express". Bucks are getting the big push, so finish was never in question.

I quite enjoyed the Casino Battle Royal. i'm a huge fan of gimmick matches, so this sort of thing is right up my alley. Pretty good breakdown of the entrants. Will Hobbs getting a good showing wasn't expected. Matt Sydal botching his first impression is a bummer for him, but what can you do.  Spears continues to be a waste of space. Did anyone notice that Eddie Kingston rolled under the bottom rope? technically he shouldn't have been eliminated.

Hardy/Guevara was something. they did make me question if Hardy was really hurt after that fall, but if he isn't i think it was fairly tasteless. If he was really hurt, then of course it's an even bigger moral issue. Fairly confusing with the starting the match but then restarting it a minute later. can't say i liked this at all.

Shida/Rosa was fantastic. Easily the match of the night to this point and the best women's match we've seen in months. Shida looked good fighting from underneath and Rosa came across as a big star. JR detracted from this match a bit IMO, but Excalibur and Tony were both great.

Dark Order 8 Man tag existed. I've been enjoying their schtick but this didn't do much. JR flubbing "Dick Grayson" shows exactly why i hate him using the "Stu Don't Call Me Dick Grayson" bit. X and JR again covering and jumping in with other Robin references was my highlight of this match.  Cardona hasn't felt like a good fit in AEW yet for me. Didn't like the finish. glad they're finally moving forward with the Colt bit though.

FTR beating Hangman & Omega for the tag titles was a great match. consistent great storytelling and hard hitting action. Hangman and Omega solving the "are they on the same page?" question right away, and then working coherently as a team was definitely the way to go. And the payoff with Omega being the one to inadvertently hit Hangman with the V-Trigger was also a great touch. These four worked their asses off.

Mimosa Mayhem match was decent. went too long, but the finish looked great and the right man went over. fun spectacle.

Main event was weird. i felt it told a good story. Moxley's selling of the arm was pretty great. But the match started off too slowly for a card that had already lasted 4 1/2 hours (counting the buy-in). It was just hard for me to get into this one. Finish was...OK. i don't know if Moxley having to cheat to beat MJF is what they should've been going for.

 

Overall thoughts: i liked the show but didn't love it. the only two matches that will stand out are Shida/Rosa and FTR/Omega & Page. 

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23 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

And I too hope sad Hangman is replaced by give no fucks/hold my beer Hangman soon.  Adam will suffer greatly if this victim shit continues for too long. 

This is where I'm at. I appreciate their desire to tell stories with shades of grey and real humanity. I appreciate that some people find Hangman as the anxious, drunk fuck-up as a friend to be relatable. But from where I'm sitting, simple is better in some situations. When you've got someone people want to see as a fiery babyface ass-kicker, don't out-think yourself. There's an upper-limit to how much of this they can do without it being damaging, IMO. 

You make some fine points in your post, so much so that I'll let slide your wrongheaded objection to wrestling weddings. ? 

Re: Sydal, if your only exposure to him was pre-WWE then it's understandable why you'd find him a tad dull. In his latest Impact run, he found a fun character to complement the world-class ring work. It was a good run. But it's Impact, so trees falling in a forest and all that. 

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11 minutes ago, Casey said:

 

I'm glad Hardy is alive and is going home, but I'm not taking Khan's word for it about the concussion:

https://www.scoi.com/centers-of-excellence/concussion-center/signs-and-symptoms-concussion

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    Association with grossly normal structural neuroimaging studies such as an MRI scan or CT scan; however, it is important to note that since a concussion does NOT show up on an MRI or CT scan, these tests may come back as normal, but does not indicate that the athlete didn't suffer a concussion.  A clear MRI or CT scan does not mean that the athlete is clear of a concussion injury.

     

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10 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

I'm glad Hardy is alive and is going home, but I'm not taking Khan's word for it about the concussion:

https://www.scoi.com/centers-of-excellence/concussion-center/signs-and-symptoms-concussion

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I for one can attest to that being true. When I had a CT scan done after my latest concussion it didn’t show up. Yet every other sign of a concussion were (and some still are) quite visible. 

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With MRI and CT scans, you’re typically looking for more significant signs of trauma, like bleeding, swelling, etc.  So, while it’s a good sign that he was clear on that stuff (allegedly), it doesn’t rule out that he did have a concussion.

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Well I finally caught the show after avoiding all spoilers and damn..  I thought Matt Hardy was in serious trouble.  There were a couple good matches but unlike the other AEW PPVs which were either home runs or at the very least good.. this was not that.  This was definitely their worst show. 

Show MVP:  Aubrey Edwards. She tried to save Matt Hardy and the fact that she got overruled is bullshit. 

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Archer winning the battle royal all but cemented that Mox was winning the title match. I'm fine with Mox winning, if it leads to something decent for MJF. Such as him taking a couple of weeks off to lick his wounds, and coming back with an even bigger mean streak. Both tag matches were excellent, and while the big match is Bucks vs. FTR, I can't help but think that FTR and Jurrasic Express are going to tear things up on TV sooner rather than later. Shida vs. Thunder Rosa was damn fine wrestling as well. If AEW doesn't make her an offer, or tries to lowball her, then Tony Khan is an even bigger jackass than he already showed himself to be by restarting the Hardy match.

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5 hours ago, Casey said:

Omega, pre-COVID, was one of the most over members of the roster. I love ya @just drew but I don't think you're right on this one.

An apt comparison would be if Adam Page won the title at All Out 2019.

Maybe I am wrong. I'm not a fan of his, and it's possible I let that cloud my judgement. I'll stand by the notion that he doesn't move the meter the way Jericho and Mox do, though. And it remains puzzling to me that so many here view his title win as a foregone conclusion...

Edited by just drew
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