Zimmerman Not Guilty

[glfpunk]

I read this whole thread and pretty impressed by the reactions. Everyone but Victator. Youve got some issues dude and should be banned.

My opinion from the beginning was that Zimmerman was an idiot that overstepped his bounds. The death of Trayvon could have been prevented if either one of them handled it differently. I never thought the crime was murder but what Zimmerman did was wrong because even if his shooting was in self defense it occurred because of his error in judgement early on. They were dumb to go after murder. Should have been manslaughter from the start.

[jaedmc]

Run? Although the Stand Your Ground law says you don't have to run.  I guess you have to be the one to kill the other with no witnesses.

Unfortunately, according to the law, that wouldn't have helped Trayvon at all. Law Enforcement Officials are listed as a special exception in regards to who you can stand your ground against.

[Big Fresh]

I read this whole thread and pretty impressed by the reactions. Everyone but Victator. Youve got some issues dude and should be banned. My opinion from the beginning was that Zimmerman was an idiot that overstepped his bounds. The death of Trayvon could have been prevented if either one of them handled it differently. I never thought the crime was murder but what Zimmerman did was wrong because even if his shooting was in self defense it occurred because of his error in judgement early on. They were dumb to go after murder. Should have been manslaughter from the start.

As the guy who's usually on the other side as Victator, I'll say this: I don't think he should be banned. At all. I just wish he could tone down the rhetoric. Believe it or not, I think he's a smart guy and I'd like to be able to discuss these things with a smart guy who doesn't see the world in the same light as me. But discussion is impossible when you just come out of the gates calling everyone names and hating everyone who disagrees with you.

[supremebve]

Unfortunately, according to the law, that wouldn't have helped Trayvon at all. Law Enforcement Officials are listed as a special exception in regards to who you can stand your ground against.

How would it not helped Trayvon? Zimmerman wasn't law enforcement he was a neighborhood watch capitan that the people in the neighborhood didn't even want watching their neighborhood. He had zero authority to follow this kid and was even told by the 911 operator to stay in his car. How can you claim to be standing your ground when you are actively perusing someone?

[offspring515]

What bothers me in the aftermath of this (beyond the fact that I think a murderer walked away a free man) is the ongoing willful ignorance when it comes to race.  "This isn't a racial case!" and "Race didn't play a part in this!" makes me feel like the people espousing such views are not connected to reality.  In America race plays a role in everything. 

 

Also Zimmerman's brother droning on and on about how his brother sponsors black kids last night was getting under my skin.  It was basically a "but I have black friends!" defense.

[goc]

Of course this was about race. If Trayvon was white or latino it wouldn't have been national news. If Zimmerman was a shade darker and named Jorge instead of George it would have never been on TV.

[Pete]

No one's getting banned as long as y'all stay civil (ahem) and keep your emotions in check.

This whole thing was sad from start to finish. I'm darkly amused at the people who said the trial wasn't about race, and then mused about the threat of blacks rioting in the same breath. Also about the folks who said "What if Zimmerman walks?"

Point of order: Zimmerman may be free now, but he ain't walking anywhere for the rest of his life. He will almost certainly spend every waking hour living in fear. So it's a perverse form of justice for the pro-Trayvon crowd.

[Guest The Magnificent 7]

And how would you have us respond?  Inquiring minds want to know. 

 

I would have people respond with a little more control over their emotions, and show that they actually paid a little attention to the trial and the facts presented in that trial rather than the media outlet of choice's interpretation that just jives with their political persuasion. 

 

Ultimately, when the emotion dies down it's a good thing that trials are still conducted in a court of law rather than in the court of public opinion. 

 

That's the long version.  The short version is I would have people respond like jaedmc and not Victator or some of the other reactionaries in this thread.

[Guest The Magnificent 7]

Actually, the thread is going quite well...  As long as people keep their political views in check we will be fine. I find it interesting that the member's first post on this site is in this thread, however.

 

Why do you find it interesting?  I registered because another longtime board member hipped me to the new forum address on Xbox Live just yesterday.  First thread I clicked on after registering was this one.  It's actually how I found out the verdict. 

 

Trying a new username out until I go back to the original just because it seems a little fun. 

 

But feel free to find racism behind every bush or whatever your "interesting" comment is supposed to imply.  Please provide me with the thread order posting protocol for longtime users who just registered.  I'll follow it, so no one else finds it "interesting."

[rzombie1988]

Lovely twitter reactions:






Love Mr. Cole's reactions of cutting off Zimmerman's genitals. Violence(and castration) is clearly the solution to fix violence.

[jaedmc]

How would it not helped Trayvon? Zimmerman wasn't law enforcement he was a neighborhood watch capitan that the people in the neighborhood didn't even want watching their neighborhood. He had zero authority to follow this kid and was even told by the 911 operator to stay in his car. How can you claim to be standing your ground when you are actively perusing someone?

I could totally be wrong, and this is all speculative because it's impossible to know what would happen if it were the other way around, but if this was flipped George Zimmerman could technically be considered a person who Law Enforcement officials have appointed to aid them in enforcing the law(even if it's without compensation). Here's what being considered Law Enforcement means in Florida: http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/943.10 It appears to me, and I'm no lawyer at all, that there's a room there for someone in a Neighborhood Watch who works directly with the Police, no matter how loosely, could be covered here.

[jaedmc]

What is the value of the Stand Your Ground Law? How would people change it? Do you get rid of it, or further define it? 

 

I kind of like the idea of the Law, just because if someone broke into my son's bedroom and I stabbed their face in, I'd like a little legal protection. But then again, how often is that going to happen? Do I need a law "just in case" if so many people are going to abuse it? I'm not sure of the answers here. Maybe the law isn't the issue. If it were overturned do things get better? I don't think so. 

[Guest The Magnificent 7]

What is the value of the Stand Your Ground Law? How would people change it? Do you get rid of it, or further define it? 

 

I kind of like the idea of the Law, just because if someone broke into my son's bedroom and I stabbed their face in, I'd like a little legal protection. But then again, how often is that going to happen? Do I need a law "just in case" if so many people are going to abuse it? I'm not sure of the answers here. Maybe the law isn't the issue. If it were overturned do things get better? I don't think so. 

 

It's a tricky thing as you say.  Self-defense is both a natural right and a recognized right of self defense in the U.S., and I'm not sure the Stand Your Ground laws are necessary when that already exists.  I don't think they are necessary and add to confusion on what a person's rights are when under threat of death or grievous bodily harm. 

 

As for your other question, one home invasion is one too many.  I hope it is never a somethree who break into your home because it gets exponentially harder to stab multiple faces in as opposed to a someone.

[The Z]

Meanwhile the guy from Texas, who made a tasteless but harmless joke on Facebook is still in prison.

[Gonzo]

If people want to get angry about something in this case, they should probably be pissed off at the prosecutor for

 

1) Skirting around a grand jury because they knew that, had they gone to a grand jury, there likely wouldn't have been any charges at all.

 

2) Levying a charge that they, quite clearly, didn't have enough evidence to prove.

 

3) Showing themselves to be so incompetent that I don't think they could have convicted George Zimmerman of littering.

 

Then there's the small matter of the evidence that they withheld from the defense that was talked about by a member of the prosecution (who was subsequently fired for that revelation). Not to mention that the Martin family got used as a bunch of pawns in this whole deal.

 

If Angela Corey is lucky, she gets disbarred.

[Big Fresh]

Glad that everyone who was predicting riots turned out to be not having enough faith in Americans.

[Newb82]

Someone posted an article on my FB feed about people rioting in Oakland, but when I do a search all that come up are conservative web sites and not any news sources.

[EVA]

What is the value of the Stand Your Ground Law? How would people change it? Do you get rid of it, or further define it?  I kind of like the idea of the Law, just because if someone broke into my son's bedroom and I stabbed their face in, I'd like a little legal protection. But then again, how often is that going to happen? Do I need a law "just in case" if so many people are going to abuse it? I'm not sure of the answers here. Maybe the law isn't the issue. If it were overturned do things get better? I don't think so.

Stand Your Ground is fine as it pertains to your home, which is where most states leave it. But Florida's SYG law also applies to everywhere a person has the lawful right to be, so a street corner, the park, Burger King, wherever. Which is madness. That part of the law needs to be struck down. That's just a few steps above sanctioning honor duels in the thoroughfare.

[jaedmc]

Honestly, I kind of dig the idea of honor duels. Instead of this chicken shit drive by stuff. Let's just have an appointed place where two guys decide to  just shoot at each other...we'll call it a Colosseum. Leave the bystanders out of the stupidity.

[Gonzalez]

Glad that everyone who was predicting riots turned out to be not having enough faith in Americans.

 

It's funny, of all the crazy stuff that happens down here in Florida rioting isn't something that happens here all that much. Not even a flipped car during a Championship celebration. 

[jaedmc]

Stand Your Ground is fine as it pertains to your home, which is where most states leave it. But Florida's SYG law also applies to everywhere a person has the lawful right to be, so a street corner, the park, Burger King, wherever. Which is madness. 

I can't seem to find that in the statute, unless I'm just plain looking in the wrong place. I see this

 

a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and

 

(a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.

( “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.

© “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.

 

So are we saying that a street corner is considered a dwelling? I don't even know if Burger King counts. Unless it's open all night and people can just chill there.

[Gonzalez]

Basically you can shoot and kill someone in public if you feel that your life was endangered in anyway. 

[Kuetsar]

Does Zimmerman belong in jail? Morally and ethically, yes; legally, no. I can appreciate the passion on twitter, but keep in mind all those pussies would piss their pants if they ever saw him in person. If Zimmerman happened to be killed (I'm not advocating it) like travon martin it would be poetic justice,  not real justice. Karma is a bitch and he will pay for his actions in this life or the next(Assuming there is one). As for the politics it's just going to get worse. As the demographics in this country continue to change, and the white population continues to shrink(in proportion if not actual numbers), a certain segment of the population will fell more and more threatened. When that happens more "incidents" will occur. . . Part of that is tied up in terms of "liberal" and "conservative", but it goes deeper than that,  and in  the South, where all the slavery baggage is still present(though it will continue to very slowly fade), it may linger more and more, as other parts of the country "evolve" away from it. . . OR I am totally full of shit(which is possible)

[offspring515]

The need to have their predictions of riots come true is behind those "reports" of riots in Oakland.  Someone spray painted something on a building and someone else broke out a window in a restaurant.  HIDE YOUR CHILDREN, THESE CRAZY BLACK FOLK BE A RIOTIN' IN THE STREETS!

 

The sad part is that you just know there are people out there who are actually sad that massive riots and race wars didn't break out, just so they could have further evidence for their racist beliefs.

[Gonzalez]

 

 

but keep in mind all those pussies would piss their pants if they ever saw him in person. 

 

I didn't know Zimmerman was one of those Bray Wyatt tough fat guys.