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Wrestlers are trash "Allegedly"


Kang

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There's a lot of naval-gazing about "who knew what about whom" but man, the murmurings about Chikara and Quackenbush have been around a LONG time. The  English wrestling scene was apparently a closed-circle of enabling assholes but as stuff comes out about Chikara probably good to call out people who ran interference for them, especially int the "wrestling media." 

Edited by Hagan
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47 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

I'm grappling right now with the fact that I've bought three different Marty Scrull t-shirts over the last few years.

Well he's always claimed to be a villain. Still, I might give it a couple of years before wearing one in public. It will be seen as "ironic" then.

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Phil Early is not a liar. The name that was blanked out in the messages was mine. I will support and back him on this fully. He was trying to protect me by giving background and context to his story. This may take a few tweets so stay with me.

When I got involved with the Cornettes I had heard the stories and rumors about stuff like everyone else did. Things didn't get bad until late 2015 when I tried to separate myself from the situation. I had started to get interest in someone and decided that I wanted to move on

Suffice to say that the situation didn't end well. Stacey threatened me by saying she would have me blackballed in the business, sending me pictures of self harm she said that I was cause of, etc. Shortly after I 'randomly' got popped for a piss test.

Then my apartments where I was living (section ? with a new gf kept getting random inspections and complaints on me. (It was against my lease to have her with me). I had been told that she had reached out to my job in the hope of getting me fired. She continued to message me even after I had told her that even seeing her was giving me severe anxiety and panic attacks. I know, sounds stupid. But I had heard the rumors of things that went on well before I ever met them and realized it was in my best interest to just ignore it and try to move on.

Then @PhilEarley4 came out with his story. He needed me to help give context to his situation. After everything came out I received calls and messages from Jim, Stacey and their attorney claiming it was me, why would I do this, etc. I told them that the messages werent from me and i had nothing to do with it. But everything lined up with what I had experienced. I have been a fucking mess since last Thurs night. I have had panic attacks and massive anxiety with all of this shit coming back up.

I was informed that they were making Phil's life hell and I won't stand by anymore. I wont let him be called a liar. I know this may damage me but part of my reasoning for not speaking out was being scared. Yeah I'm man enough to admit that I'm fucking terrified of typing this out. But its the right thing to do.

I was then told that on this past weeks show, Jim said that he talked to me and I was fine with it. I'm not and I said as much. I dont 'kiss anyone's ass when I see them' I was raised to be polite and in a work setting i kinda have to be. I realize that I'm not a perfect person.

And I know that in life people make mistakes. I made a mistake by staying quiet about this. @PhilEarley4 doesn't need to be called a liar, a fake or be stalked. He's trying to do the right thing and help people. Thats something commendable and I'm proud of him for it.

We can be better. All of us. There are people who have been harmed way worse than me. Protect them. Protect the people helping others. Even at your own personal expense. I wont be bullied anymore by Stacey, Jim or anyone else.

This isn't for 'clout, recognition or anything else. This isn't to get my name out there. I didnt want it out there. I wanted to get as far from this as possible. But this is the right thing to do to back a friend. Thanks for listening. Support good people doing good things.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Ryan said:

You're a stronger willed guy than I am. I really struggle to appreciate art by anyone who I find out has done questionable stuff regardless of the medium.

No, I just assume that most everyone has done something shitty at some point that I wouldn't approve of (myself included) and leave it at that. Yeah, I don't watch a lot of Benoit matches any longer and his signed 8 x 10 sits in my file drawer not on my wall. But if someone were to post a match under a "greatest matches" thread or somesuch, I'd probably watch it. 

I can listen to John Lennon's music all day and he was a pos that beat women because most guys could kick his ass. 

Granted, my musical heroes are Lux Interior and John Prine, neither of whom I ever heard a bad word about that didn't concern illicit drugs, (something I have no problem with. Not for me, but I have no problem with adults taking whatever the fuck they want as long as they don't cause any harm to anyone.)

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7 minutes ago, saveholmes said:

 

Damn it, I was really hoping the stuff about the Cornettes was bogus. Jim has always seemed a top-notch guy whenever I've dealt with him. I'm kinda sick about this.

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Quack has been one of my favorite wrestlers since the early 00s and it's a real downer to hear about what kind of person he apparently is. Aside from his in-ring work, the articulate and enthusiastic way he would talk about wrestling and his commentary showed how much he loved the business and how creative he was in shaping his vision of it. His talk about the art of wrestling is one of those speeches I've often referred to when discussing how and why I enjoy wrestling so much. Chikara has been a shell of its former self since after their hiatus, but it was still one of the more creative promotions out there and it's a shame its legacy is going to end like this.

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Lince was in a match with Mitch Ryder, hit his finish but kinda botched it and basically had a bad seziure/concussion.  Quack was more concerned about keeping Kayfabe and not unmasking him rather than his health and safety.

Then after the fact, instead of checking on his health and safety, Quack wanted Lince's tuition money.

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Bizarre UK Age of Consent fact: For a long time, the AoC was 16 for heterosexuals, but was 21 for gay men. However, because Queen Victoria was under the impression lesbians couldn't exist, you could legally have lesbian sex the day you were born.

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3 hours ago, Eivion said:

So these age of consent and marriage laws. Are these cases of states being too lazy to make the changes? Or were they being brought up and argued as something that needed to be changed, but no one did for fuck knows what reason?

I know that there where extremely Conservative christian home-schooling movements that where opposed to this> Basically wanting girls to get married as young as possible, same people who are really into purity balls ect. Same groups are the reason the US has not ratified the UN rights of the child

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I think Pete and I (separetely) were at that show. It's the scariest thing I've seen live. I've written about it here before, but it was NOT GOOD. 

I always thought the dichotomy was strange that Quack was all about wrestling as performance art and such yet was extremely old school about kayfabe.  But that's not germane to the stuff coming out now. 

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I've always been baffled why there's no uniform age of consent law in the US. Whether you want to make it 16 or 18, seems ridiculous that you can go to jail in one state for something and not in another.  In regards to marriage laws, you know...one hundred years ago it wasn't uncommon for people to marry at 15 years old, if not younger. Life expectancy, cultural mores, economic issues dictated these decisions. Shit, my mother and father married at 16 and 17 respectively. Today, for various reasons, we would see that as way too young. I don't think anyone under 21 should be allowed to get married. Of course, there are inconsistencies that abound. You can go to war at 18 but you can't have a beer at the bar, as the famous saying goes. 

In regards to Scurll and these other Brits, less focus should be on the age and more on the assault part. We start to lose the plot when we start applying our cultural standards to other places. I have a good friend who is French who is literally baffled that teenagers can't drink in America. In France, you can drink at 16. He'll never understand it.

Regardless, age of consent and marriage laws are a very complicated tricky issue. I know as a teacher we run into issues where seniors date freshmen and we have to warn them about legal ramifications 

Anyway, England having a pretty liberal age of consent ruling doesn't condone assault or rape. 

Edited by Hagan
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Re the Lince Dorado thing - I found this via archive.org, It was a recap written on ChikaraFans

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    [After the pinfall] Lince kept shaking. He wasn’t breathing right at all; you could see him sucking his lower lip under his upper teeth over and over, really fast. Quack got into the ring really fast and was trying to get him to talk, but Lince said nothing. Lince eventually slowed his breathing down and stopped shaking; he wasn’t moving at all. NO ONE made a noise in the entire place. Daizee Haze ran down and tried to help Lince talk as well, but he didn’t respond.

    They didn’t have a stretcher, so they got a table and managed to put Lince onto it to get him to the back. Quack took off his mask and covered his face with a towel, which was actually quite scary to see. The hair-shaving was REALLY surreal because it just seemed so extremely out of place. When it was quiet, I heard a woman sob loudly, and I looked over at an older woman covering her mouth. I feel certain it was his mom.

    While everyone left the ringside area slowly and confusedly, you could hear a woman yelling from behind the curtain. She yelled, “MY BABY,” a couple times, so I’m pretty sure that it was his mom. That was what really hit me that I should get out of there, and I’m pretty sure Destiny had been thinking that for a few minutes by then.

    We left and I wanted to go to my car, but someone told me not to go in because an ambulance was coming. I asked if I could just go to my car, and I did, but we didn’t leave because I didn’t want to block the eventual oncoming ambulance. There were many wrestlers out back; someone was trying to calm a woman down, and she may have actually fainted. I moved my car because it was pretty much where the ambulance would be pulling in. I called my brother to let him know the news, and we heard applause coming about 10 minutes after the ambulance had arrived. That probably means that he was alert, but I have no idea if he was walking or not. I tried to not look at the ambulance for privacy reasons. After the ambulance left, I left too.

The main event was supposed to be next of Hero vs. Claudio but they ended the show instead

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1 minute ago, EricG said:

How soon before a “Wrestling is <insert fun word>” promotion pops up?

I think some will, but I actually don't think they will be associated with Quack. From what I can tell, the real reason the company is shutting down is the talent is pretty livid. I legitimately believe a lot of the CHIKARA roster, especially the younger ones, really believed the message and a lot were pretty pissed at how the promotion was actually run.

The question is if they will get the finances to succeed. 

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Wrestling such a carny business. Chikara built itself on family friendly wrestling, where guys would get fired for cursing. Progress had Jim Smallman do some a lengthy punk rock monologue about how the only rule is "don't be a dick."

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1 minute ago, Hagan said:

Wrestling such a carny business. Chikara built itself on family friendly wrestling, where guys would get fired for cursing. Progress had Jim Smallman do some a lengthy punk rock monologue about how the only rule is "don't be a dick."

Perhaps Smallman should have said "Don't show your dick!" (or wave it around or whatever...)

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4 hours ago, Craig H said:

People keep bringing up Marty and Osprey in regards to how badly they're fucking up. Not to excuse their behavior, but of all the talent that's at their level of popularity or notoriety and above, they're two of the dumbest fucking people in wrestling. It's not shocking to see either of them continuously shoot themselves in the foot. For fucks sake, Marty may as well be Charlie and Osprey may as well be Mac.

In this scenario, I then suppose that Aries is Dennis.

Fair play, but I figured at the very least if Marty Scurll was smart enough to secure such a big contract with ROH that would've kept him from signing elsewhere when he was undeniably a hot commodity at one time, he would've been smart enough to have either a lawyer or a trustworthy party look over his public statements, read over them before he clicks send. 

Edited by TheVileOne
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I wonder if the name and video library of Chikara could be purchased and re-established under different management. Or if the name is too ruined and Quackenbush was too integral to the company. I joked about WWE, but if the footage was for sale it would be interesting to see CHIKARA on the Network.

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Given their history, it would prob make the most sense for Smark Mark or whomever they are working with these days to buy it. 

Presumably it would go for under market value right now given the toxic status of Quack and some of the talent named. 

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6 minutes ago, OctopusCinema said:

I wonder if the name and video library of Chikara could be purchased and re-established under different management. Or if the name is too ruined and Quackenbush was too integral to the company. I joked about WWE, but if the footage was for sale it would be interesting to see CHIKARA on the Network.

Honestly, the nature of CHIKARA was always weird enough that it'd be weird at the very least to see if WWE would be able to monetize CHIKARA on the network, since we have enough of a track record to know that what works on the Network for other promotions are promotions that have loads of recognizable WWE stars- and CHIKARA's charm was always that the characters there were so different that even if someone used the same name on the regular indies, you could compartmentalize the worker in CHIKARA was not the same as the worker on the greater indies.  I'm not ready for WWE Network destroying that nature of the show because they need to tell casual WWE viewers why they should care about this Soldier Ant or Helios match (for two examples of CHIKARA names who are well-known in WWE sans the mask.) 

Heck, when you consider that nature- it's likely that wrestling has proven that CHIKARA had kind of finished its time even independent of this stuff. Quackenbush always had something to rub people the wrong way, but it was accepted "he's kind of a jerk, but he's a creative genius with characters"...but the rise of people like Orange Cassidy or Drew Gulak to be stars has kind of shown in the last year "wait a second- these guys are good anyway. Hell, Quackenbush's characters made from some 1980s glorified toy commercial animated show may actually be holding these guys back!". 

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