Wrestlers are trash "Allegedly"

[Elsalvajeloco]

40 minutes ago, Craig H said:

 Alvarez desperately tries to reign Dave in

I dunno about that. That is one of the issues I have with Alvarez as a co-host. He will cut off Dave if he has a point he vehemently disagrees with. That's the only time, and usually it's over some silly shit recapping a show. No other times does he really stop Dave from getting sidetracked or going on too long a tangent. I couldn't make it through the Mo Chatra one. Dave is talking for 90 percent of the episode. I forgot they even had a guest on.

[Niners Fan in CT]

good lord that tank top Bryan had on today was awful but he's doing pretty well covering all of this.  

Edit:  Are the Observer boards as terrible as their YouTube comment sections?  

Edited June 24, 2020 by Niners Fan in CT

[odessasteps]

I doubt they have improved in the 10 years or so since I left.

[The Natural]

7 hours ago, RIPPA said:

Remember Aries was fined for doing this

  Reveal hidden contents

So yeah - I am not gonna feign surprise at his name being brought up. The only thing less shocking today was Ron Jeremy being charged with rape.

(Spoiler because the gif is posting larger than I expected)

Yeah, I haven't forgotten that. Horrible behaviour. Fuck Austin Aries.

[Casey]

So that whole Sammy Guevara ordeal... the host of the podcast admitted to leading the effort to find and share that clip where he mentions Sasha and rape. Talks about bluepilling, then says he did it because Sammy ignored and distanced himself from the host and the podcast after he signed with AEW and that made Kevin Scampoli (the host) angry.
 

The same year these comments came out from Sammy about Sasha, they were removed from an Internet Darlings event that WhatCulture and Wrestling With Wregret hosted because of domestic abuse comments by the host. Scampoli’s YouTube channel is pending termination and he’s already been kicked off Twitch in the past day.

[Technico Support]

6 hours ago, Casey said:

There’s also an indie wrestler over there that made vague mentions of OVW’s school doing similar things - very old school training. It was brought up because Al Snow’s business school/OVW was brought up as an example of how to do things going forward. But apparently for all the good things like business classes and whatnot, he’s still a very old school type trainer that breaks you down mentally and physically - like the Harts and to a more extreme degree, the Knights.

Any system designed to "toughen someone up" is just abuse going by another name.  It's stupid and disgusting.  The military takes the "break them down to build them up" approach because they are literally training someone to take a life without hesitation.   I guess it makes sense from that perspective though it's something I find reprehensible.  You know where that approach doesn't make sense at all, from any perspective?  Wrestling.  This isn't war.  It's simulated fighting.  Anyone who makes it seem more important that that, trainers like Snow or Demott or whoever that act like it means everything and you'd better be mentally tough and up for this supreme challenge, is just an egotistical shithead trying to compensate for the fact that they've dedicated their lives to play fighting in their underwear.  Seriously.  If you try wrestling and find it too hard, well just don't do it.  But to treat it like some all-important thing whose participants need to be broken down and made tougher just creates broken people.  The old school mentality, in training, in working, and in the lifestyle, needs to die.

 

[hammerva]

The Austin Aries defense seems to be that maybe Austin Aries is a douchebag who treats people like shit but the real person isn't like that.   So either he lives in character pretty much everything he does in a social setting or he is completely full of shit.  

[paintedbynumbers]

6 hours ago, nate said:

I'm fucking gutted.

I took my daughter to a Chikara show when she was 4 or 5.  She was fascinated by Ophidian, and to this day, at just 12 (two weeks ago, in fact) she will list "the snake man" as one of her favorite wrestlers.

1) I fucking hope Ophidian isn't one of those mentioned.  Two reasons, one being the obvious as mentioned above.  The other: During intermission, we were doing the autograph run with the wrestlers, and Kingston, Ophidian, and Icarus had occupied one corner of the venue.  He took a picture with her, and he whispered something to her, and she said he told her tha k you for coming.  In the main, Ophidian came out to interfere or for a match or something (this was 2013, and my memory isn't what it was), and as heel Ophidian is doing his dastardly heel shit, my daughter is right at the edge of the row of seats.  He looks over at her and she waves her little hand at him, and he slyly waves back.  And that's one of my favorite memories of probably anything ever.

2) Same night; for full disclosure, I have amazing hearing, almost superhuman I've been told.  I can pick individual conversations out of large groups of people, I can hear whispers several feet away.  And while there was nothing necessarily said that was sexual in nature, I can attest that, in private conversation that I particularly can't avoid hearing, at least in one moment, Icarus is a fucking scumbag.

I don't know Ophidian well.  The last time I saw him was last July and he was set up next to the Chikara Video game demo.  He was extremely polite to everyone though and thanked each person for coming out and supporting the show. He seemed extremely mild mannered and was well spoken.  I've chatted with his wife Kate many times and we have a few of the same friends. I'd be shocked if anything came out about him.  Then again a few of the names released have shocked me.  

[Ultimo Necro]

The “tough love” is used across all sports. I had coaches across the board who would do this.  In their mind it’s for discipline. I had it explained to me in wrestling you needed discipline as you have someone else’s life in your hands.  To be the best at any sport discipline is without a doubt one of the main attributes you need. Self-discipline.

Where the douchebags go wrong is they think that by ‘applying discipline‘ that, it weeds out the weak, where it does the opposite.  I was a very good football player in High School, I practiced hard and stayed away from bad stuff off field.  I had self-discipline.  But my coach would burn people out at practice, he was a dick and It ended up that myself and 4-5 of my buds stopped playing altogether by the end of school.  My school very rarely produced any college players of any note despite being regularly being one of the best school teams in the area.  The guy was clearly a talented coach when it came to winning a game, but not when it came to nurturing talent.

My track coach on the other hand could be described as “tough but fair”, he would work you hard but was fair. If you asked for a break he would give you it. If you pulled up, he would encourage you. I sucked at, and hated running, but he without doubt made me a better athlete.

Ive always believed self discipline can’t be taught, you either have it or you don’t. These shitty coaches always seem to have a chip on their shoulder as well.

I am therefore not surprised about Pro wrestling coaches acting like dicks.

Edit - Also, see the Power Plant scenes on Louis Theroux’s weird weekends. If that’s what happened regularly, I’m not shocked that the only homegrown talent WCW produced was the Natural Born Thrillas

 

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Ultimo Necro

[Ryan]

There's also the side effect that some people who make it through the toughening up nonsense think that's the normal way to do shit and become total assholes about it themselves and can turn into even worse coaches/trainers of the same ilk because that's how they observed it.

[paintedbynumbers]

24 minutes ago, hammerva said:

The Austin Aries defense seems to be that maybe Austin Aries is a douchebag who treats people like shit but the real person isn't like that.   So either he lives in character pretty much everything he does in a social setting or he is completely full of shit.  

not true. He acts like an asshole outside the ring even when he is a face.  One of the biggest pricks in wrestling. If you have heard a story about Aries being a prick 99% chance it's true.  He came in to our local indy for 1 show (promoter never wanted him back) he worked as a face. After the show 2 little kids asked him for an autograph,  he stopped, smirked, said get lost, and walked away.  My friend who was working the show gave the kids each a free 8x10 signed and lied and told them Aries was having a bad night.   

Before an ROH show a couple of people were outside the venue and Aries walked by in the parking lot. People asked for a pic and he just kept walking as if he didn't hear them. Someone yelled "fuck you vanilla midget" and he flipped the guy off and kept walking.  

 

[Technico Support]

43 minutes ago, Ryan said:

There's also the side effect that some people who make it through the toughening up nonsense think that's the normal way to do shit and become total assholes about it themselves and can turn into even worse coaches/trainers of the same ilk because that's how they observed it.

The fraternity mentality.  "I was treated like shit, hazed, etc when I started, so now it's my turn!"  Also, just the sheer ignorance of just thinking that's the way things are, and never having the self-awareness to question it.

[A_K]

9 hours ago, OSJ said:

Good Lord! I don't even want to think about things I said at 32 let alone 22. Fortunately there was no such thing as the Internet when I was at my most obnoxious (despite what Rippa may say to the contrary). 

So which is it? On the one hand you’re suggesting that there is a very fine line between speech/action and that “my sixty years on this mudball have taught me .. that it is a very small step from thinking or talking about doing something awful to actually doing something awful”, on the other hand you (and others) are in the act of admitting that you’ve said things you’d rather forget ... which, I assume, you didn’t actually act on? So either you are all very rare, or there is (more likely) in fact a rather large leap between speech and action.

Not so much a comment on Sammy Guevara - as know hardly anything about the guy & and clearly in these heightened times organisations need to take action to nip insensitivity/crassness in the bud and demonstrate it cannot he stood for - but as a separate note in isolation once people start mind-policing and making mental leaps between speech & action they’re on a dangerous road indeed. 

Edited June 24, 2020 by A_K

[The Natural]

52 minutes ago, Ultimo Necro said:

The “tough love” is used across all sports. I had coaches across the board who would do this.  In their mind it’s for discipline. I had it explained to me in wrestling you needed discipline as you have someone else’s life in your hands.  To be the best at any sport discipline is without a doubt one of the main attributes you need. Self-discipline.

Where the douchebags go wrong is they think that by ‘applying discipline‘ that, it weeds out the weak, where it does the opposite.  I was a very good football player in High School, I practiced hard and stayed away from bad stuff off field.  I had self-discipline.  But my coach would burn people out at practice, he was a dick and It ended up that myself and 4-5 of my buds stopped playing altogether by the end of school.  My school very rarely produced any college players of any note despite being regularly being one of the best school teams in the area.  The guy was clearly a talented coach when it came to winning a game, but not when it came to nurturing talent.

My track coach on the other hand could be described as “tough but fair”, he would work you hard but was fair. If you asked for a break he would give you it. If you pulled up, he would encourage you. I sucked at, and hated running, but he without doubt made me a better athlete.

Ive always believed self discipline can’t be taught, you either have it or you don’t. These shitty coaches always seem to have a chip on their shoulder as well.

I am therefore not surprised about Pro wrestling coaches acting like dicks.

Edit - Also, see the Power Plant scenes on Louis Theroux’s weird weekends. If that’s what happened regularly, I’m not shocked that the only homegrown talent WCW produced was the Natural Born Thrillas

 

 

Yeah, that came straight to my mind. Dreadful.

Edited June 24, 2020 by The Natural

[The Natural]

This whole thing is awful. As in life, I have to hope the good outweigh the bad ones out there.

[RIPPA]

So Malia Hosaka basically bitched that the women were speaking out and that everything should have been kept "in-house" (for lack of a better word)

And so Lufisto responded to that

And now there are folks saying that they always heard Malia wasn't a very good person (but that could also just be people trying to enhance a narrative)

[Dolphman 3000]

14 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

And now there are folks saying that they always heard Malia wasn't a very good person (but that could also just be people trying to enhance a narrative)

Malia's nickname is "Modern Day Moolah" - interpret that how you will

[mattdangerously]

9 hours ago, OSJ said:

As you may imagine about someone whose friend and mentor was Harlan Ellison, I'm a Comicbook Legal Defense guy from way back.

Funny you should mention the CBLDF...

[Coletti]

Anytime I see it brought up that somebody seems like such a nice person so how could they do something like this, I can't help but think about any story where some psychopath or a serial killer or kidnapper is found out, the local news always interviews the neighbors, and the neighbors always say, "Oh but he was so nice to us!"

It's kind of funny to think about, and then it's really not.

[Dolphman 3000]

Uhhh holy shit

I

[Dolfan in NYC]

He's saying he's disgusted with the industry.  Can't say I blame him.

[Ryan]

I choose to believe Mongo was running that account himself.

[Dolphman 3000]

Here's the incident Pinkie's referring to - Matt Riot died in 2009 at a CZW training session and his cause of death was listed as a "brain aneurysm"

https://phanaticmag.blogspot.com/2009/09/independent-wrestler-lowry-dies-after.html

Tuesday, September 15, 2009

Independent wrestler Lowry dies after training in South Philadelphia

Independent wrestler Matt "Riot" Lowry died at age 22 on Tuesday after suffering a head injury during a training session for Combat Zone Wrestling at The Arena in South Philadelphia on Monday night.

According to doctors at Hanneman University Hospital, Lowry died of a brain hemorrhage and had no evidence of acute head trauma or that the workouts was the cause into his death.

Lowry was trained by Dean "Shark Boy" Roll, and had wrestled in a number of smaller promotions like Absolute Intense Wrestling and American Luchacore before getting some spots in IWA: Mid-South. He took a break from wrestling earlier this year before moving to New Jersey with the intention of breaking into CZW.

"Matt Lowry had no position with Combat Zone Wrestling LLC, nor was he a student," the company said in a statement. "He was in town to work for another promotion and came to the Arena in South Philadelphia where our performers gather to work out.

"He joined in some warm up activities, including running, squats and push-ups. After which, he sat in a chair and said something like "I feel dizzy." He fell over and 911 was called immediately. A local fire company responded and they called for an ambulance.

"CZW Owner David Markland and other wrestlers followed the ambulance to the hospital. CZW contacted Lowry’s father and had wrestlers stay at the hospital until he arrived from Ohio. We were told Lowry died of a brain hemorrhage and that there was no evidence of acute head trauma or that his work out caused his death. CZW wishes to extend its condolences to Matt’s family and hopes that our fans will keep them in their thoughts and prayers.

"We at Combat Zone Wrestling LLC, remind fans that pro wrestling is a dangerous activity; however we strive to protect the safety of our students and performers through proper training and discourage anyone from attempting to imitate our performers."

Roll also commented on the death via his Web site.

"Shark Boy was shocked and saddened to hear of the untimely passing of Matthew Lowry on Tuesday at the age of just 21. Lowry attended the Shark Tank wrestling training class twice in 2006 and was exceptionally popular with the group thanks to his work ethic and great sense of humor.

"Whether wrestling in the ring or helping out behind the scenes, Lowry was also involved in several Buckeye Pro Wrestling events and was always a major help. Our sincerest condolences go out to the Matt’s family and close personal friends. He will be missed by everyone who was lucky enough to have known him."

 

[Ryan]

36 minutes ago, christopher.annino said:

Anytime I see it brought up that somebody seems like such a nice person so how could they do something like this, I can't help but think about any story where some psychopath or a serial killer or kidnapper is found out, the local news always interviews the neighbors, and the neighbors always say, "Oh but he was so nice to us!"

It's kind of funny to think about, and then it's really not.

They're very good at faking human emotion and other things, they have to because they are genuinely screwed up. Sociopathy is the same way.

[Ryan]

There are a lot of ways he could have gotten a head injury without knowing it, but that's still messed up and obviously no one woudl trust DJ Hyde as far as he could throw any of us, which isn't very far.