APRIL 2020 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[Wyld Samurai]

21 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

The main comparison I draw between Styles and Mauro is obvious - the inorganic catchphrase that automatically sounds insincere because it's a catchphrase. 

But another thing that gets under my skin is the constant shouting of move names as if they are actually pertinent to the story in the ring. I don't care what the judo name of the hold is - for the purposes of wrestling it's called the Tazmission. The idea that names of moves are what makes an announcer good at his job has been a long-standing talking point I've never understood. It feels like a weird overcorrection of the issues people had with Vince's commentary. 

That's what I love about Tony and JR giving Excalibur a hard time about. Excalibur goes so much into the detail of the holds / moves that it just doesn't quite fit with the rest of the commentary package. If pro-wrestling was a legitimate contest where there was no such thing as angles - then Excalibur's work wouldn't quite be so out of place. 

The duo of Jericho & Skeeavone right now is pretty much perfect. The PBP guy just having fun, and the grizzled vet with war stories stretching back almost 30 years that has remained current in today's world. 

to add: Excalibur reminds me of a nerdy Mike Tenay.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Wyld Samurai

[Jiji]

1 hour ago, MORELOCK said:

The main comparison I draw between Styles and Mauro is obvious - the inorganic catchphrase that automatically sounds insincere because it's a catchphrase. 

But another thing that gets under my skin is the constant shouting of move names as if they are actually pertinent to the story in the ring. I don't care what the judo name of the hold is - for the purposes of wrestling it's called the Tazmission. The idea that names of moves are what makes an announcer good at his job has been a long-standing talking point I've never understood. It feels like a weird overcorrection of the issues people had with Vince's commentary. 

I mean, that's exactly what it was and it was precisely what ECW was presenting itself as. It may not have aged well, but it was the kind of fan service that audience was craving for after listening to "one, twoooo aaaaand-no, what a maneuver" since forever. Going back and rewatching some ECW even a few months ago compared to my viewing the '95-'96 TV ~15 years ago it really hasn't aged well and I have come to kind of love Vince's over the top car salesman bullshit style in small doses, but yeah... It wasn't intended for us with pretty much the entire library of wrestling available at our fingertips. I still enjoy the wild string of angles and matches that Heyman could put together and think it largely stands the test of time. Styles' commentary, while perfect for its audience in the '90s doesn't so much but that's okay. I don't hate it but it does get old pretty quickly. That he's kind of a dickhead doesn't help either, but as has been established on this topic that doesn't matter much.  

51 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

to add: Excalibur reminds me of a nerdy Mike Tenay

Speaking of not aging well...

A nerdy nerd nerdlinger. I do feel like Excalibur was at his best just kind of having fun at the commentary booth shaped like a table with Owens or Taylor, but he's improving in this new role or at least was prior to the shit hitting the fan. I'mma disagree with you a bit here, Samurai, in that while Excalibur loves throwing out a Fire Pro move name he also goes to great lengths to paint a picture of the match story and has shown some really great insight regularly. As much love as Tony deservedly gets, sometimes he'll say something that contradicts what's actually happening or the match's psychology (I love Tony, think he's one of the all time greats please don't hurt me). 

2 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Reminds me of how almost every NOAH match started with either a test of strength, or shoulder block battle.

https://streamable.com/sdx8o (NSFW for the swears)

One of the manliest things I've ever seen in a wrestling ring. Love, love, love it.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Oyaji

[Curt McGirt]

1 hour ago, odessasteps said:

“look, we’re pushing a black guy. We can’t be racist, right?” 

I'd bring up B*** W**** but I don't want to be sweeping floors for him in my head again tonight

Also, I think I saw the best test of strength ever in that Nishimura/Takayama match I posted in the Not from Now thread. That whole match is just Osamu schooling the fuck out of Takayama on the mat, over and over, until the second he gets hit. 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Curt McGirt

[The Green Meanie]

1 hour ago, Wyld Samurai said:

Excalibur reminds me of a nerdy Mike Tenay.

That would imply that Mike Tenay isn't nerdy already.

I enjoy Mike Tenay, I don't enjoy Excalibur.

[John from Cincinnati]

5 minutes ago, The Green Meanie said:

That would imply that Mike Tenay isn't nerdy already.

You almost got the joke! 

[Wyld Samurai]

1 hour ago, Oyaji said:

A nerdy nerd nerdlinger. I do feel like Excalibur was at his best just kind of having fun at the commentary booth shaped like a table with Owens or Taylor, but he's improving in this new role or at least was prior to the shit hitting the fan. I'mma disagree with you a bit here, Samurai, in that while Excalibur loves throwing out a Fire Pro move name he also goes to great lengths to paint a picture of the match story and has shown some really great insight regularly. As much love as Tony deservedly gets, sometimes he'll say something that contradicts what's actually happening or the match's psychology (I love Tony, think he's one of the all time greats please don't hurt me). 

I do get carried away with my own hyperbole, so I do have to detract a touch in regards to Excalibur. He does his best to tell the story - I just think his style of throwing out every 5 syllable name for a maneuver can be a big distraction to the package as a whole. 

[Jiji]

Definitely not for everybody. I get that for sure.

So, here's something super unrelated... How great was Konnan? Looked cool, had the sickest moveset, great talker, got southerners to chant "viva la raza" en masse, got gassed on the way to the ring to the point he was dangerously throwing/dropping guys on their domes. I think I kind of love Konnan only semi-ironically. 

[Go2Sleep]

1 hour ago, Oyaji said:

So, here's something super unrelated... How great was Konnan? Looked cool, had the sickest moveset, great talker, got southerners to chant "viva la raza" en masse, got gassed on the way to the ring to the point he was dangerously throwing/dropping guys on their domes. I think I kind of love Konnan only semi-ironically. 

The problem is he never had all of these things going at the same time. His WCW debut look with the multicolor singlet and the K shaved into his head was definitely not cool and his babyface work looked real bad especially when Eddie Guerrero was working the "Mexican blue chipper" gimmick concurrently. He did have a nice in-house theme, though. His Dungeon of Doom run was his best stretch in the ring mainly because he could take liberties with all the AAA guys he was getting in the door, and the cholo look was a good precursor to the attitude era, a bit ahead of its time. If you ignore how little sense all of this happening in the DoD made, it was pretty good. Then he went to NWO bottom-feeder and couldn't even have good matches with Rey. His wolfpac run had him mega over, and he somehow got to keep saying "toss my salad" as part of his pre-match routine. He was pretty bad in the ring, though. He was always limited, but babyface really didn't suit him in the ring. He was great as the mouthpiece for LAX and serviceable as Prince Puma's mentor before getting killed off by Mil Muertes. Turns out he's a lot better when he had prime Homicide and Ricochet taking care of the "then the bell rang" stuff for him.

[Curt McGirt]

Tequila Sunrise: Laziest looking submission ever.

[The Natural]

@AxB, @Sky Blue Sam, @DreamBroken and @SturmCRF.

[Sky Blue Sam]

I can't help but think that would feel more impressive without Gallus being involved. 

[Technico Support]

All this talk about Excalibur reminds me of one of my favorite goofy calls.  For years, the running gag was "HE'S DONE THE DEAL!  NOBODY KICKS OUT OF THE FALCON ARROW!" and then the person would always kick out.  I'm positive nobody told Excalibur and Chuck that the Falcon Arrow was the finish this time.  Maybe a rib?  LOL I just noticed the face of the guy sitting next to Meltzer.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Technico Support

[Craig H]

1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

All this talk about Excalibur reminds me of one of my favorite goofy calls.  For years, the running gag was "HE'S DONE THE DEAL!  NOBODY KICKS OUT OF THE FALCON ARROW!" and then the person would always kick out.  I'm positive nobody told Excalibur and Chuck that the Falcon Arrow was the finish this time.  Maybe a rib?  LOL I just noticed the face of the guy sitting next to Meltzer.

I love that call so much. Dustin and Excalibur losing their shit is pure joy. It's impossible for me to not laugh or smile when Excalibur's voice goes up by a full octave and Dustin lets out the best "HAHAHAHAHAHA."

Also, another example of why I think Brian Cage looks fucking weird.

[bobholly138]

On 4/27/2020 at 12:17 PM, Zimbra said:

I remember staying over a friend's house who was into wrestling and watching Saturday Night's Main Event and being way, way into the Big Boss Man.

For me it was cause every Saturday we went to visit my paternal grandparents. They had cable so would watch Saturday Night with Grannie and PawPaw every week. Then learned that on the channels we got with an antenna we got Mid south,WCCW,Memphis,Florida and others.

So every Saturday starting at 3pm until 10pm I watched wrestling. Then if I could stay awake at midnight was some WWF syndicated show.

Hell even in Army BCT we made it a point to catch USWA on ESPN most weekdays.

Edited April 30, 2020 by bobholly138

[AxB]

So EC3, right. When he was in TNA it was widely assumed he was on shitloads of steroids because, well, look at him. But he's just been under WWE contract for two or three years, not lost and bulk, not lost any definition, not failed any wellness checks.

So, has he been very lucky with his tests lining up with his off cycles, or has he somehow managed to achieve and maintain that level of physique without the use of the magic muscle juice?

[Eivion]

7 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Tequila Sunrise: Laziest looking submission ever.

Momo Watanabe has the best Tequila Sunrise. Why? Because she said fuck it and stole the name for her half and half suplex.

[OSJ]

18 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:

I think a heel commentator just being like, "Apparently at Ann Arbor, the "special tutoring" the athletes get expands to tests and exams" or "One of my kids has  a teacher who also graduated with an education degree from Michigan. If that's the type of person who can get one of those, I'm pulling my kid out of that classroom right now" would be enough.

But Heyman talking about Arachnaman being a standout in his college's spin class would be excellent, too. 

On another note, I think Jesse Ventura works a bit better in WCW than he did in WWF on color because I think he had a tendency to undermine Monsoon on PBP by rightly pointing out what dicks most of the faces would act like; this happened less in WCW because WCW's top faces weren't consistently acting like  complete bullies and assholes. 

I mean, I love Ventura on commentary no matter what, but I just think his schtick was a better fit in WCW for that reason. 

Little-known fact: Arachnaman taught weaving between tapings.

[Jiji]

1 hour ago, Craig H said:

I love that call so much. Dustin and Excalibur losing their shit is pure joy. It's impossible for me to not laugh or smile when Excalibur's voice goes up by a full octave and Dustin lets out the best "HAHAHAHAHAHA."

Also, another example of why I think Brian Cage looks fucking weird.

Man, that clip makes me sad. No reseda, no Chuck on commentary, very few dope dudes left on the roster. 

[Craig H]

2 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

Man, that clip makes me sad. No reseda, no Chuck on commentary, very few dope dudes left on the roster. 

At the same time, it should make you somewhat happy to see where so many of them wound up. I think I'm happiest for Chucky. I've loved that guy for so long and dreaded him somehow winding up in WWE where he would have been useless. Instead he got to have a short run in NJPW and now he's one of the focal points of the AEW tag division with Trent. Now if we could somehow get Dustin to start live tweeting AEW shows.

Also, the one time I recently got annoyed with JR (I know most of you get annoyed with him constantly) was talking about how Chuck has a big frame and should put muscle on. How about fuck off? How about the dude is already in pretty good shape and not everyone that tall needs to look jacked. Can you imagine what he'd look like if he bulked up and put on muscle? It would be totally shitty. 

[Kang]

Live Events with fans could return soon in Florida. June July ish.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

44 minutes ago, Craig H said:

At the same time, it should make you somewhat happy to see where so many of them wound up. I think I'm happiest for Chucky. I've loved that guy for so long and dreaded him somehow winding up in WWE where he would have been useless. Instead he got to have a short run in NJPW and now he's one of the focal points of the AEW tag division with Trent. Now if we could somehow get Dustin to start live tweeting AEW shows.

Also, the one time I recently got annoyed with JR (I know most of you get annoyed with him constantly) was talking about how Chuck has a big frame and should put muscle on. How about fuck off? How about the dude is already in pretty good shape and not everyone that tall needs to look jacked. Can you imagine what he'd look like if he bulked up and put on muscle? It would be totally shitty. 

I caught that too and it pissed me off. Variety is the spice of life and pro wrestling - if I wanted yolked up dudes 100% of the time, I'd watch WWE; I don't, so I don't. 

A big reason I think it was gross, and I think some others here posted this in the Dynamite thread that week, is I immediately got flashbacks to Beyond The Mat after Michael Modest and Tony Jones had their WWF dark match, where JR casually told Jones to put on 25 lbs of muscle. C'mon man.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

Zeb Culter is spreading a rumor that Vince is shopping the company to either Fox, or Disney.

 

[Technico Support]

7 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I caught that too and it pissed me off. Variety is the spice of life and pro wrestling - if I wanted yolked up dudes 100% of the time, I'd watch WWE; I don't, so I don't. 

A big reason I think it was gross, and I think some others here posted this in the Dynamite thread that week, is I immediately got flashbacks to Beyond The Mat after Michael Modest and Tony Jones had their WWF dark match, where JR casually told Jones to put on 25 lbs of muscle. C'mon man.

Yeah, that was me who posted that.  As I said, Ross was the talent relations point man in a timeframe where women were being pushed to be skinny and get implants and guys were pushed to get on the gas.  If he's not with WWE anymore, he needs to never mention a worker's appearance again. 

[odessasteps]

Is it still a cosmetic and appearance business? 
 

if not, then I guess people can look however they want. 

[caley]

11 hours ago, Oyaji said:

Definitely not for everybody. I get that for sure.

So, here's something super unrelated... How great was Konnan? Looked cool, had the sickest moveset, great talker, got southerners to chant "viva la raza" en masse, got gassed on the way to the ring to the point he was dangerously throwing/dropping guys on their domes. I think I kind of love Konnan only semi-ironically. 

The biggest thing that got me about Wolfpack Konnan and beyond was he would say the exact same thing week-in-week-out.  "You know them fools in the black and white be talkin about that for life but K-Dawg and the Wolfpac somos unos Vatos Locos forever but more importantly (name of the city) is bout it bout it and rowdy rowdy!"  Every goddamn week.  Then when he was with the Filthy Animals, he'd come out and talk about his jacket then say to Tigress "Go ahead, feel it.  That's enough".  And it was the same spiel every week.  I used to yell at the TV: "Shut up! Say something else!" 

That was very WCW, though.  Where WWE now has signature spots that they insist on wrestlers working in EVERY match whether it makes sense or not (Sami's backflip off the guardrail; Ambrose's rebound lariat etc. etc.), late-era WCW tried to have catchphrases for everyone.  But Konnan was not the first offender.  That, my friends, was Rick Steiner who would come to the ring and just say "If you want some, come get some.  If you don't like me, bite me."  and it was all he ever said.  Every week.  Every. Single. Week.