Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

Dolfan Watches Every Wrestlemania On Lockdown


Recommended Posts

Jesse looks like someone skinned a fucking anaconda to make his vest for WM III.

https://enthusicast.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/commentators.jpg

EDIT: Steamboat/Savage is still great. I don't see how they needed a ref bump and visual pin (or George Steele) but whatever. Something I've noticed about all these matches is the faces cheating; even Steamer had Savage tied up in the ropes at one point. And man, you think Jake was mad at Honky for that prior guitar shot or what? He VAPORIZED that thing against the post trying to hit him. If he had hit him... I bet Honky hightailed it for real after that match.

Wondering how much Jimmy Hart made for this show, considering how many matches he was in. Speaking of which, hmmm... seems like they have cut a few of them for this broadcast, unless they're out of order and are gonna try and sandwich them in before the main. I was looking forward to that Billy Jack bladejob. 

Edited by Curt McGirt
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:

Owen wasn't the Black Hart yet, IIRC, as he first started using that moniker post-Screwjob.

He was still the King of Harts at this point, which means we would've got something like "King of Jackasses," which, yeah, not as memorable as what we did get. 

I think he was either The Slammy Award Winning or The Two-Time Slammy Award Winning Owen Hart at that point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

I think he was either The Slammy Award Winning or The Two-Time Slammy Award Winning Owen Hart at that point.

It's the former as the latter was a stolen award from 97.

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Hollywood Backlot Brawl. 

Boy am I of mixed feelings about this.  Goldust is a character that is hyper-boundary pushing in 1996, and hyper-problematic in 2020.  This original heel incarnation of Goldust is gender queer, hyper-sexual, disrespectful of boundaries, and absolutely infuriating to a ton of people in the crowd.  The problem comes when it comes played by a cis, straight white male, who's views on the subject of LGBTQ acceptance were not known (and wouldn't be for a long time), playing this character specifically to engender hatred.  But then again, the point to Goldust is you never get him to come to your beliefs, you have to go and meet him, and that's where his power lied.  Nowadays, Dustin is an avowed ally so this is a little better to rewatch. 

Piper on the other hand.... ?

The set up was Piper was the "President of WWF" because Jack Tunney went to jail or died or coughed in front of Vince... I forget.   He had been getting harrassed by the "bizarre" Goldust... who I'd imagine he had a hand as President in hiring! And Goldust pissed him off so much, he resigned just so he could fight him. Piper promises "to make a man out of him", which is pretty much all you need to know about his motivations.  

So the match itself, is interesting because it's very clearly the grandfather of "These Troubled Times"' cinematic matches. There's no explanation of any rules, there's no referee, it's just two people, fighting.  And right off the bat, you see that they're both concerned about how this is going to look since it's away from a ring, because they are really, REALLY laying into each other.  Like, legit clubbing each other with rights and lefts. Piper, who has a bat, shows that it's clearly a plastic bat, because he doesn't pull up on the shots he's giving to Goldie... especially one, where he clearly hits him so hard, that if it were a real bat, Dustin would be dead.  But the bat is substantial enough to break the candy-glass windshields that are on the Gold Cadillac Dustin is driving. 

They also miss simple things like taping their hands, because Roddy comes up with bloody hands when he gets knocked to the floor a few times. There's clearly some ideas here that work in the modern cinematic match universe, but they'd clearly have to be modified. Plus, Vince clearly didn't have the confidence in this match to have it done completely away from the arena, because once Goldie gets into real trouble, he hits Roddy with his car and drives off.   Piper gets into his white Ford Bronco, leaving blood all over the door, and pursues him. 

My mindset about this segment is way, way different than it would have been even three months ago. But now, it's... historic?  I'm not sure if that's the right word, but it's certainly something.   

To be continued...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

By thee thorny castle of Lilith, the HBLB is one of my favorite matches. I liked (in small doses) the partially taped/partially live matches that the WWF was doing around then (Boiler Room Brawl, some of the bigger Hardcore championship matches). They were a change of pace, and when done well, were more than just gimmick matches as they really advanced a wrestler's character, especially the ones with the more "out there" gimmicks. The contrast of the brutal stiffness and silly references was great, and I am all for matches where the heel gets stripped down to reveal lingerie/boxers with hearts/dirty chonies. It was a shining point in that otherwise drab (for me) WrestleMania. I watched it in a bar in Milwaukee, I believe, which is always one of my favorite ways to watch a PPV.

- RAF

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's go ahead an wrap up Day 34 now.  

Next up are a couple of dudes making their Wrestlemania debuts.  The homegrown talent vs. The WCW & ECW reject. Savio Vega is a decent hand, but so utterly forgettable, I barely remembered he existed until he popped up on my screen again.  Of course, his opponent, fresh off his "nah baby that'th noth for you, that'th for somebody elth..." cup of coffee in ECW is Steve Austin.  I'm actually surprised when I hear him introduced as Stone Cold Steve Austin, because I was sure he was still "The Ringmaster" at this point.  (Also, sidetracking here for a sec, I would love to know when (or if) Austin and Dusty made up, because oh lord l, Austin was very clearly not thrilled with him in that promo.  That conversation must have been... tense.)

Onto the match itself, Austin is the Million Dollar Champion, so Ted DiBiase is at ringside. They both start out a house of fire and keep trying to keep up the heat, but the crowd is giving them nothing.  At all.  So, Austin takes over for an extended heat segment, and we begin Roddy Piper's call in segments as he's chasing Goldust down the freeway to the arena.  His phone keeps cutting out because, well, it's the mid-90's and cell phones sucked then.  

Poor Savio and Austin are just dying out there because even though the match itself is fine, the crowd and even the fucking announcers are giving them jack shit. Vince, in what I'm sure was hilarious to his coke-fueled brain at the time, cuts away from the match at a couple of points to "aerial footage of Piper" but in reality was footage of OJ Simpson being chased by the police.  Christ.  

Finish of the match comes as Savio knocks the ref into the middle of next week with an errant kick, and Austin makes Vega pay for that by obliterating him twice with the Million Dollar Belt.  He locks a straight up choke, which apparently counts as the Million Dollar Dream in this match, while DiBiase tries to wake the ref.  The ref is out so long, I think he missed their cue, or was out there putting heat on himself.  Either way, this match was already way, way too long, and this ending segment took like 4 minutes, when it should have been 30 seconds tops. Meanwhile, Vince only cares about getting more OJ footage on the screen in what has GOT to be a rib on someone. Probably me.

Better times would lie ahead for Mr. Austin.  And for me too.

End of Day 34.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Let's go ahead an wrap up Day 34 now.  

Next up are a couple of dudes making their Wrestlemania debuts.  The homegrown talent vs. The WCW & ECW reject. Savio Vega is a decent hand, but so utterly forgettable, I barely remembered he existed until he popped up on my screen again.  Of course, his opponent, fresh off his "nah baby that'th noth for you, that'th for somebody elth..." cup of coffee in ECW is Steve Austin.  I'm actually surprised when I hear him introduced as Stone Cold Steve Austin, because I was sure he was still "The Ringmaster" at this point.  (Also, sidetracking here for a sec, I would love to know when (or if) Austin and Dusty made up, because oh lord is Austin was very clearly not thrilled with him in that promo.  That conversation must have been... tense.)

I think Austin is of the mind that he's made a ton of money since then so he doesn't give a fuck. But FWIW, I was interested in him talking about his ECW "shoot" promos cause I never heard him talk about them and was always curious about particular promos. Then like a few months ago, something on Youtube popped up from his podcast talking about it (looks like it's been since taken down). IIRC He was indeed pissed at people from WCW at the time, but it was pretty much water under the bridge afterwards (probably right when he got to WWF). I don't remember him talking specifically talking about any tense encounter with Dusty or anyone else.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DAY 35

So the WWF's ratings were tanking hard at this point, so they turned to a former champ to help them out and put them over one of their newer talents.   So yeah, Vince has been doing the same shit for 25 years now. The Ultimate Warrior had gotten fired 3-4 years before this for ridiculous steroid (and maybe HGH) use right when the Feds were really getting interested in the WWF. He'd gone into retirement only occasionally popping up here and there.

Unfortunately for the rest of us, Vince remembered he existed, so he got brought back in the time of their greatest need.  He's here to squash the Connecticut Blueblood Hunter Hearst Helmsley.  Nothing to really say about this match except I'm shocked Warrior allowed Hunter to actually get a pedigree on him. Oh, and Helmsley's manager here will become important in a second. Warrior celebrates the squash, the crowd kind of pops, which... isn't a great sign. And of course Warrior would be gone in 6 months for no-showing house shows. 

Moving on... 

Todd Pettingill has maybe the most infuriating haircut at this point because it looks like he shaved his head and is letting all of his hair grow out at the same length, and he's got a stupid earring too.  So he's here to introduce us to the WWF's newest signee, "Marc Marrow" (you and I, and everyone not named Todd Pettingill, know him as Marc Mero).  He's excited to be here, but HHH interrupts him and begins laying into his manager - Sable (Mero's real life wife).  Mero's pissed about being interrupted, and Hunter's bad day continues.  

Oh for fuck's...  More OJ Simpson footage.  Vince pls.... 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

best Triple H match ever IMO ?

and I definitely remember the OJ footage cutaways being embarrassing and groan-inducing to me at the time.  Few things worse than someone who repeats a joke that didn't land because they're the only one who doesn't realize "no it's not that we didn't get it, it's that it's not funny."  I was already impatient with Piper/Goldust because I thought the IC champ not putting the belt on the line at Wrestlemania was kinda dumb.  The OJ shit just made me want it to end, and it's one of the reasons I never rewatched Wrestlemania 12 the way I did most other PPV's I bought and recorded.

(Dolfan will be getting to the other reason in a couple posts)

Edited by BobbyWhioux
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, so now we're at The Undertaker and Diesel.  Diesel is a few months from leaping to WCW and is in full "put guys over" mode.  The story, I believe was he had a salary that Vince wouldn't match, not so much because Nash didn't deserve it, as he considered it a poison pill that would force everyone to get raises.  Undertaker is very much the upper card/main eventer tier where he'd stay on and off for the next 10-15 years. But he's got 4 Mania matches, and none of them approach anything resembling "good."  That's about to change.  

Diesel lays the groundwork for future challengers to the streak by doing the whole "I respect you, but I don't fear you" routine that would be followed by HHH, Orton, Batista, and others.  The match is a lot of fun, as both guys are very motivated here. Taker and Diesel are both moving VERY quickly for guys their size and are giving each other good, hard shots.   This fucking crowd though...  

The action is moving in and out of the ring, and I suddenly notice that the urn from last year has changed.  I'm guessing somewhere in that gigantic WWF/E warehouse where they've got all the old sets, there's a huge room just dedicated to the urns Taker used.  

Anyway, the crowd FINALLY fucking wakes up when Diesel takes full control of the match and hits Undertaker with the Jackknife powerbomb. Then he just stands around, like an idiot.  And then he goes and hits another Jackknife.  And he STANDS AROUND LIKE AN IDIOT AGAIN!  Dude, no wonder you fucking lost.  You had him beat twice but you stand there fluffing your hair for literally 30 seconds before you even think about ending this. So, of course, Taker fights back...  Diesel finally releases he's in a shitload of trouble.... yeah stupid, you are. 

Chokeslam, Tombstone, bye bye Diesel.  The match was so much better than I remembered.  Diesel had the skills and game plan to beat Taker, but his arrogance got in the way, and he got beat because of it. 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lemme finish Day 35 because 36 was one match... and I have thoughts. 

Okay, so Taker has just beat Diesel.  Todd Pettingill has somehow gotten into the arena security office and we see Goldust's car speeding into the arena.  We see Roddy's car (bloody door and all) chasing right behind.  Goldie finds Marlena, but they both run when Piper arrives.  They enter the main floor of the arena and now the crowd is suddenly interested.  That doesn't last too long though.  

They two of them start fighting into the ring and the brawl becomes a very loose match.  The crowd goes dead fucking silent whenever Goldust takes over and reacts a little when Piper does.  A few of them start getting riled up when Dustin tries to kiss Piper, but gets fought off.  Homophobia in a Southern California crowd is not going over well as the crowd just doesn't know how to react to what they're seeing... especially when juxtaposed to a very stiff brawl.  

Goldust finally plants a kiss on Piper, and Roddy decides he's had enough and starts no selling everything.  He proceeds to grab Dustin's dick (?), spank him (?!), and kiss Dustin himself (?!?), presumably to make a man out of him.  The end comes when Piper tears off Goldust's body suit revealing Goldust's wearing lingerie.  Causing Goldust to run away. 

There are so fucking many mixed messages going on here... sexual assault is bad, especially when done by someone of your gender... Also when that person goes too far, you have the right to humiliate them, to verify your own (toxic) masculinity.  And yeah, toxic masculinity is a relatively new term, but boy, did this match swim in that sea. 

For what it was, the match itself was chaotic fun when it was away from the arena - if WAY too stiff for a cinematic match - but the OJ stuff is a major, MAJOR strike against it, and when it returned to the arena, they seemed to just want to play it for comedy, when the violence before belied that.  

So many mixed messages....

End of Day 35. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Motivated Kevin Nash is a hell of a worker, so it's really too bad that this and the HBK match at GFBE are like the last two times that he was ever motivated in his entire life. Well, except for the HHH feud when he came back to the company in 2002 or whatever that was awful because HHH is shitty. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

DAY 36

I was thinking about this project, and the fact that I'm a month or so in, and I'm just now getting to the 33% done mark. I'm definitely enjoying this as a way to occupy my brain while I'm riding.  And today, NY State just extended "PAUSE" (our title for Lockdown) until the end of May (and probably mid-June).  I think what I'm trying to say, is I'm liking this, even though, as time goes by the rides may be a little less frequent.  But not until I hit X7 or so.  ?   

This is going to be the first of many one match rides to come as Vince accepts the fact that he doesn't have big hulking (pun!) guys as his top stars any more, he has quicker mobile athletes. Bret Hart is basically the personification of the switch between the superhero champ to the "work any style convincingly" champ.  He and Shawn Michaels definitely set the stage for the Brock Lesnar/Chris Jericho/Edge type champions that would come in the following decade.  Which is why I think someone like Braun is an odd throwback to the old school style.  Vince still loves them, but they just seem... out of place today?   

So yup, it's the Ironman match.  The storyline is Shawn Michaels wants to be World Champion, and Bret Hart is World Champion.  That's it. 

Oh, and they hate each other in real life.  So that should make this match interesting... or so you would think. 

President Roddy Piper said since HBK won the Rumble, he gets Bret at Mania, and he gets him in an Iron Man match.  I don't think WWF had done an Ironman match for the title since at least the 70's, so this was a very novel concept.  Most falls wins -- and this is where the penny drops.  

The story was (and I believe, still is) that Michaels' and Hart's hatred for each other made them stupidly too proud to drop a fall to the other.  So you've got to book a match that's going to last at least one hour, and both of them refuse to play along with the concept of the match.  And I will tell you, while I watched, the thought that went over and over in my head is the "wins and losses don't matter" concept (or meme, if you're being cheeky) is a direct result of this match.  

So, this is Shawn's famous zipline entrance to the match.  My only thought is, when they rehearsed this, they'd better have told Shawn to tuck his legs when he got near the floor or he could have legit kicked someone's head off.  (Oh, and Owen, 3 years later.)  Bret does his standard entrance and we're ready to go.  Or so we think, as Earl Hebner, ever the mark for himself, DRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWS out the rules explanation and belt presentation.  What a dick.  

We are finally underway, and the crowd is hyped, because these two should put on a *****+ classic and it's clear that's what they're expecting.  Lots of action, lots of falls, and some big shock surprise at the end... like MOST ironman matches. My eyes are drawn to a row of guys in the front row who are pumped to be there and giddy as the match starts. 

That's not where they'd end up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

And I will tell you, while I watched, the thought that went over and over in my head is the "wins and losses don't matter" concept (or meme, if you're being cheeky) is a direct result of this match.  

I'd like to hear more of your reasoning here, because I don't see the connection.

I do see an argument that this match was a major contributing factor to the modern "only a finisher can end a match" style. And that style sucks. But this match was still awesome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In terms of hour long (or longer) matches I've watched, Bret vs Shawn at Mania 12 is probably the worst one I've ever seen. And I have watched Joey Janela go 60 (and Dave Crist go 104) quite recently. Most people I know who put Mania 12 over as an all-time great match haven't watched many (or any) other super long matches and lack perspective. Mania 12 was fucking boring. I mean, compare it to other WWE hour matches, like Hunter vs Rock or Angle vs Lesnar, and it's just dull. Bret's usually a good storyteller in his matches, but this is just a series of meaningless moves that lead to nothing. It's a spotfest without the spots.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, AxB said:

In terms of hour long (or longer) matches I've watched, Bret vs Shawn at Mania 12 is probably the worst one I've ever seen. And I have watched Joey Janela go 60 (and Dave Crist go 104) quite recently. Most people I know who put Mania 12 over as an all-time great match haven't watched many (or any) other super long matches and lack perspective. Mania 12 was fucking boring. I mean, compare it to other WWE hour matches, like Hunter vs Rock or Angle vs Lesnar, and it's just dull. Bret's usually a good storyteller in his matches, but this is just a series of meaningless moves that lead to nothing. It's a spotfest without the spots.

The match going 0-0 the whole time is why it is terrible.  It was a good match watching it live because you didn't know.  There's no reason to ever watch it now.  You can literally just skip to the end and miss nothing (aside from the superkick on the floor.)  

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, sydneybrown said:

The match going 0-0 the whole time is why it is terrible.  It was a good match watching it live because you didn't know.  There's no reason to ever watch it now.  You can literally just skip to the end and miss nothing (aside from the superkick on the floor.)  

That's an interesting argument (and it would explain why this perception that the match wasn't good developed years after the match). I don't think I ever have rewatched it, so I'm not in a position to refute. But is rewatchability a good metric for match quality? Surely the primary goal of everyone involved was to entertain the people watching at the time?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, AxB said:

In terms of hour long (or longer) matches I've watched, Bret vs Shawn at Mania 12 is probably the worst one I've ever seen. And I have watched Joey Janela go 60 (and Dave Crist go 104) quite recently. Most people I know who put Mania 12 over as an all-time great match haven't watched many (or any) other super long matches and lack perspective. Mania 12 was fucking boring. I mean, compare it to other WWE hour matches, like Hunter vs Rock or Angle vs Lesnar, and it's just dull.

i loved it the first time i saw it, and ranked it up with a great showing for both men. As time went on, and revisiting it, i realize that i was sadly mistaken. The match is OK, nothing terrible but nothing grand. I would agree that it is the lesser of all WWE hourlong matches. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think ranking it as one of the worst 60 minute matches is a bit harsh (I know that wasn't the exact wording). I've seen way too many terrible stall fests from the territory days. Think there was a Butch Reed/Flair draw from Mid South that I couldn't make it more than 15 minutes without passing out every time. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...