(Also Not March Madness): SECRET SANTO March 2020

[Octopus]

Thanks @supremebve! I believe I’ve seen the 6-man from the following year but not that one. So I’ll for sure check out that but I like trying to get a few in, so I’ll aim to eventually do both.

[Jiji]

Totally forgot that wasn't the finish in the Kawada/Hansen match though it certainly makes sense as to why it isn't. 

One of my favourite matches and I think it was that match, not the Kobashi series that cemented Stan as my #1. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Oyaji

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

On 5/11/2020 at 5:28 AM, Matt D said:

@gordi

Did you see the Andre/Tito/Chavo as heels trios that we pieced together?

You must have, right?

 

Hot damn, that was great. Hats off to you guys for making this available. It must have been a pain in the ass, seeing as how it is in four parts with audio issues... I am so glad that y'all went to the trouble.

Young, mobile, rampaging, angry heel Andre is a rare and precious treasure. He is an absolute force of nature here, bellowing at the crowd, tossing guys around, threatening the ref... it's very appropriate that you made the analogy about how the way Joker treated Fujiwara in that 6-man was similar to how Andre often worked in Japan, with guys just bouncing off of him and selling everything like death and swarming him the moment he showed any sign of vulnerability... but this is young and mobile Andre so it has that whole extra layer of when the babyface team swarms Andre it doesn't even feel a tiny bit like cheating. The sense you get is, "Well, yeah, what else are you gonna do against this guy?" Even when Stan f'n Hansen comes out to distract Andre and it leads directly to the good guys taking the first fall... that doesn't seem unfair. 

The background to The Young Heel Andre Show is astonishing, too. He's teamed up with Chavo Guerrero and Tito Santana, so here is your extremely rare chance to see Tito kinda sorta working heel (although really he and Chavo are mainly there to bump and sell so that the babies can have a bit of shine in between bouncing off of Andre). The good guys include a pre-mullet Riki Choshu teaming with Tatsumi Fujinami (which has to be the New Japan equivalent of seeing young Misawa and Kawada tagging together). Their partner is Olympic Judo double gold medalist Willem Ruska, legitimately one of the worlds great combat athletes. 

And here's the thing: As much of a larger-than-life super villain as Andre is in this match, as unstoppable and dominating as he seems, he is somehow so giving at the same time. Ruska gives Andre a hip toss, and Andre sells it by being so discombobulated that he goes for a tag in the wrong corner. At the very beginning of the match Choshu and Fujinami execute a double-team double-leg on Andre and it is awesome when they take him down. At one point he hurls himself into the ropes to do his tied-up spot and the ropes just shake and shake and shake. All of the ropes, all around the ring. 

The ending is superb, as

Spoiler

the fight goes out of the ring and Andre just chucks Chavo back in then fights off the good guys so his team can win the third fall by count-out.

Then he picks Chavo and Tito up and carries them around in celebration.

 

Damn, I loved this.

Edited May 14, 2020 by gordi

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

On 5/11/2020 at 5:28 AM, Matt D said:

 

If so, watch this:

 

OK. This was not at all what I was expecting. It's a hair vs hair match and the video is 25 minutes long, so I actually prepared a snack and a drink and settled in... but the match itself is surprisingly compact. 

First fall (or, as the lucha hipsters say, "el fall-o numero uno"): Porky just absolutely rolls over Dos Mil. He gives him nothing, and will not allow the man a moment to catch his breath. He beats him around the ring, then finishes him with a high vertical suplex followed by a fisherman's suplex. It's a total squash, and it is awesome.

Segunda otono: Porky just keeps laying in the punishment and it seriously looks like he's going to take Mascara 2K's hair in two straight falls and under five minutes. However, there is an all-time slip on a banana peel spot where Brazo de Plata misses a top rope senton and Dos Mil pounces immediately, hitting a regular senton of his own and stealing the fall. 

Caida numero tres: The crowd  is chanting for Porky now, and they are chanting "Porky" and not "Brazo de Plata"

The camera briefly shows a young couple in the front row, and the guy is explaining something to the lady... and her facial expression and body language are 100 per cent "OK, Captain Obvious" She almost rolls her eyes at the camera. It's weird that this is the comedy highlight of a Super Porky match.

The moment that Porky regains momentum, 2K bails out of the ring and he and his manager (?) blatantly load up the bad guy (a/k/a el hombre malo)'s forearm brace. I mean, they do not try to hide what they are doing at all. Dr. Morales awesomely losing his shit while that is going on is the second-biggest laugh of the match, for me.  

Then the rudo (enough with the jokes, already) just slides back in the ring

Spoiler

and bashes Super Porky right in the throat! Porky's selling is great here... but that's it. That's the whole match.

My expectations w/r/t Brazo de Plata include comedy spots and crazy high flying. There is none of the former and only the banana peel spot to cover the latter. He does some really sweet mat work, though. 

My expectation with luchas de apuestas is that they are generally a bit on the epic side. This match was entirely compact, a nice little short story, nothing epic about it.

You could have had another 20 minutes here, easily... but I kind of like the trimmed-down, no fat version of the story they tell. Porky is clearly the better man... but MA2000 nonetheless proves that he could win a fall against him legitimately... then he blatantly choses to cheat anyway.

Spoiler

Then the bastard struts and poses while they try and revive Porky... and the moment they revive him they start in on shaving his head.

I'm pretty sure this is the first I have ever seen of Máscara Año Dos Mil, and I hate the guy now. Can't wait to see him get his ass kicked. 

Very efficient story telling, this.

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by gordi

[supremebve]

18 hours ago, Oyaji said:

Totally forgot that wasn't the finish in the Kawada/Hansen match though it certainly makes sense as to why it isn't. 

One of my favourite matches and I think it was that match, not the Kobashi series that cemented Stan as my #1. 

I don't know how anybody rates the Kobashi matches over the Kawada matches.  The Kobashi matches are great, don't get me wrong, but Kawada and Hansen are tailor made for each other.  A few years back I was watching every 4+ star match according to Meltzer and writing about them, but I quit halfway through 1993.  After looking at the list, I'm pretty sure this would have  been my match of the year.  This is what I wrote about it at the time.

Quote

2/28/93 - Hansen vs. Kawada (AJPW) ****3/4

 

So that last match is one of the most brutal matches I’ve ever watched, but I fully expect this one to be more hard hitting.  These two may honestly be the stiffest working wrestlers in history, and taking it easy isn’t really in either guy’s repertoire.  If you are reading this, and haven’t seen this match, stop reading right now and go watch it.  I don’t know what Kawada did to gain Hansen’s respect, but it is very clear that Hansen respects Kawada immensely.  Hansen, who is about as made as guys get at this point in his career, doesn’t have to take this kind of beating.  Not only does he not need to take this kind of beating, he doesn’t need to pull out all stops on offense either.  He does both here, and does it in a way that makes Kawada feel like the most dangerous man on the planet.  Hansen does all his usual brawling, but he adds a little something extra to this like a middle rope elbow drop and A FUCKING TOPE.  This is the kind of match that only two people who really trust each other can have.  These two beat the living hell out of each other for damn near a half an hour.  Just the kicks in this match are enough to make you feel like these two are killing each other, but then you see the suplex on the floor and the lariat that Hansen hits so hard he flies out of the ring, and you know you are watching something special.  This is one of those matches where you look at Dave’s ****3/4 ranking and you think he’s been smoking crack, because he didn’t give it *****.  If you are a fan of either guy, this is the exact match you’d want them to wrestle.

 

[Jiji]

I really enjoyed that project you had going. Good stuff. I would agree with most everything you said and it was fun to see somebody go through those matches with a fresh take.

Kawada is always my guy from the four pillars because he has the vulnerability and emotion of Kobashi without having to create a new finisher every other year (or every year at one point it seemed), was better at selling long-term adding to the vulnerability, but also had the bad ass aura that Misawa had without being so understated to the point that of being stoic and unrelatable, which was a problem I had with Misawa. Misawa was the straight line. Efficient. Cold. Calculated. Rarely ruffled. While Kobashi and Kawada always had to wait and learn from repeated failures, Misawa was ahead of the curve beating both Jumbo and Hansen relatively early on. Conversely, Kawada was the Raphael or Vegeta of the group... the angry outsider who was trying to find his place with a super relatable hardheadedness and refusal to accept destiny. He was Sisyphus, except while he made mistakes, he rarely repeated them like Kobashi would if memory serves me correctly. Like he'd try to be defensive vs. Hansen or Misawa by attacking their arms. It wouldn't work, so next time he'd come back at them trying to win rather than trying not to lose. I don't understand how people can associate with Misawa or support sports teams that always win. It's boring. To appreciate victory to its maximum, I feel like you need to wallow in defeat for a long time. Misawa was great. I'd rate him ahead of Kobashi by a skosh on most days of the week, but I can't even imagine a world in which I would be a Misawa guy. Kawada, man. Kawada represents the struggle and suffering of existence. Perhaps this is where we do up the virgin/chad meme with Kawada and Misawa because it's 2020.

As much as Fuchi and Baba got right with their booking in the '90s, they could and should've treated Kawada with a little bit more respect even if his losing matches he shouldn't have was part of his charm. He'd always win over the audience and have them with him regardless of the losses the next time he was in a big match. The wrong man won that match in '94, but I suppose the emotional climax of 6/9/95 doesn't happen had Kawada won that match and I think the tag match from '95 is the greatest match of all time or second only to Omega/Okada IV (Omega's rivalry with Okada encapsulated a lot of what made Kawada and Misawa so great, btw. Omega himself has compared Ibushi to Goku and himself to Vegeta). And of course, Kawada is the one to stick around during the split. That's life.

Kawada had the passion, selling, vulnerability, and meanness that only one other wrestler I've seen nail so perfectly: Akira Hokuto. Those two and Stan are my top 3 of all times. Stan was a god damn storm, chaos personified. While you knew you were going to get unrestrained violence and a lariat, how it would unfold was almost always different each time out. He was unrefined. He'd try to pin guys right by the ropes. My friend who was training and in his early stages of his wrestling career would see that and criticize. I thought it was a feature not a flaw. He's wrestling to his personality. Hansen only cares about rules insomuch as they provide him a stage to hurt people for money. Whether his opponent is by the ropes or not doesn't really matter to him. He's wild (and blind). Bret Hart is probably in my top 5 or just outside of it. Polar opposite. He had a plan of attack and was so perfect in his execution, hence the nickname (well, that and the pun). He had to rely on his smarts and that cerebral approach allowed him to thrive in the land of giants. If you want to look at a model professional wrestler, look at Bret Hart. But there is nobody wrestling today like Stan Hansen because everybody wants to be Shawn Michaels or maybe a few want to be Bret Hart. More people coming up in wrestling should watch Stan Hansen, especially big burly motherfucks.

Stan was the perfect foil for Kawada. Stan was the wall that Kawada could try to topple and rarely could. Their matches from '92 and '93 before Stan's body started to fail him are among the best I've ever seen.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Oyaji

[AxB]

On 5/11/2020 at 7:23 AM, Smelly McUgly said:

 

Anyway, poor, poor @AxB. You've been paired with me about eight times so far. Anyway, since I'm watching a shit ton of 2000 WCW now, here's a Booker T/Lance Storm match that I enjoyed for what it was:

 

Sorry, I could only find it in German commentary as a single video and I didn't want to go back through the playlist I'm using to earmark it within the episode it comes from. This is the type of match that comes off WAY better when you've watched it in the midst of the typical crap that WCW was putting on in 2000, though by August, the shows are getting clearly better. 

One of the things that's surprised me on re-watch is how much I enjoy Lance Storm in this heel run (another thing is how much I dig Kronik, but that's another matter altogether). 

Well, this match is short. The video is 11 minutes, but that's including both ring entrances, Lance's pre-match promo, the whole match (for Booker's WCW World Title, and Lance shows up with three belts already) and a post match brawl involving Jeff Jarrett and Mike Awesome. Bell to bell it's maybe eight minutes long, which is ridiculously short for a champion vs champion match. Lance does his schtick, and Booker does his schtick, and the Scissor Kick wasn't his finisher yet so it's like seeing Shawn hit a Superkick pre-1995. Lance gets a half crab and Booker makes the ropes and then there's some other moves and Booker wins with the Book End. And then there's the post-match bullshit.

I like Lance Storm. I like Booker T. I'm sure they could have had a great match together. But there's not really anything to this one. They just go through the motions and it ends. I'm not saying it sucks or anything, I'm saying if you've never seen it, you're not missing anything. If the rest of WCW 2000 made this look good, it must have been absolutely pathetic. No wonder Schiavone doesn't like talking about it.

[Matt D]

It's been great seeing everyone's reviews, and the matches people have found for one another. And occasionally forced on one another. We've done ten weeks, which is a lot of weeks, and we've shed some people without picking up too many more. What do people want to do? Should we keep going for a couple more weeks or should we switch to a 2 (?) matches a week sort of Match Club format where we all watch and discuss the same thing?

[AxB]

I think a fair chunk of the board is reading without participating. So it's unlikely anyone is going to jump in now. Match club might be interesting, but the issue there is going to be that as soon as the match is posted some people's reviews will be up within an hour, whilst some people if the match is picked on Sunday, the review is up on the following Friday or Saturday. But most likely they'll have read other people's reviews before watching the match.

[Octopus]

How about for a week we randomize decades. If there is still 8 of us then 2 people get 80’s, 2 get 90’s, 2 get 00’s, 2 get 010’s. You can choose your own match(es) from any area  you haven’t seen or ask advice on what to watch within your decade. Cute or shoot?

[DJ Hero Morganti]

If my reviews were actually detailed I would jump in. 

But my reviews are generally things like "dude that shit was tight, homie hit that one move I had only ever seen in fire pro, but i was sad at the ending"

and I would just make people watch chikara matches, or orange cassidy matches , or random ass WWE matches that they would hate.

[Curt McGirt]

I'd be down with what Octopus suggested (by year or maybe even genre/country/organization) or Match Club, but we'd have to get all of the reviews in first to do the latter for sure. Maybe both? 

One thing I thought about earlier today is that I want to take all of these reviews I've done so far and compile them on my own long dead blog. This is the most creative/motivated I've been for a long time (sadly) and I'm not about to stop reviewing anything. 

[Curt McGirt]

I also say before we close this down we have to do Comedy/Bad Match Week. Absolutely positively.

[DJ Hero Morganti]

If we do comedy/bad match week. I am in.

[Octopus]

1 hour ago, Morganti said:

If my reviews were actually detailed I would jump in. 

But my reviews are generally things like "dude that shit was tight, homie hit that one move I had only ever seen in fire pro, but i was sad at the ending"

and I would just make people watch chikara matches, or orange cassidy matches , or random ass WWE matches that they would hate.

All about having fun and watching something recommended. If you want in the next week and we’re still doing this, you’re more than welcome.

[Octopus]

Rusher Kimura vs Gypsy Joe (CAGEMATCH)

 

What happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object, who happens to be a Gypsy? They smash each other. They smash each other good. Now put them in a cage. They still smash each other, but in a cage.

I don’t know much about either competitors. Gypsy Joe is the guy that New Jack beat up. That’s not a good first note, so I’m glad I’m finally seeing something else of his. I have never heard of Rusher Kimura until @Curt McGirt started posting about him being a badass. I’m not sure if this match is a one-off or a series, but I’m all for checking this out. 

The match starts with clubbings. Both men are tough stuff. Rusher is the strong aggressor with body slams and reversal tosses. With each strike you can tell the pain Joe is feeling. But with each hit and slam, Gypsy gets up. Flashy RVD-style flower singlet and pink boots be damned, he’s getting up. After a sold wallop or two, Gypsy Joe slaps back. Loudly. I’m wincing. Rusher slaps Gypsy’s chest. Gypsy slaps Rusher. Gypsy. Rusher. Gypsy turns his slap to a choke. This gets Kimura to his knees. Not for long, toss!

Brutalizing each other. Loud slaps and stuff strikes. Rusher might be tougher but by golly, Joe will bite. Just chomping away at Kimura. Gypsy pulls something out of his tights and the crowd is murmuring, the ref of course doesn’t know. It’s a knife-type-thing. Forehead stab. Cut cut. Forehead forehead. Rusher is bleeding. Head punch head punch. Choke choke. Gonna get between the ropes and the cage? Gypsy gonna smash you. 

I was gonna plan on rambling on about them both just smashing each other to death. But then Gypsy Joe took off the turnbuckle. Haha, what? I don’t think I’ve ever seen that happen in a kayfabe non-accident way. And that smart ring-awareness moment is taken away from the worst top of cage miss I’ve ever seen. The crowd loved it though. So hey, it worked! Everyone loves Rusher. Kimura beats up Joe until he can’t get up. Enjoy your trophy.

Honestly, first try I wasn’t into the match and stop in the first 5ish minutes. Just wasn’t in the mood. Waiting until I was in the mood for two dudes smashing, worked just right. I think I’ll check out a few more Rusher Kimura matches. I enjoyed the character. 

 

———

 

Jumbo Tsuruta, Arika Taue, & Masanobu Fuchi vs Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada, & Kenta Kobashi (10/19/90)

 

Here they come. Handsome Kobashi, Good Guy Kawada, and Ace-man Misawa. For a moment the three of them are in the ring, ready for battle, and I can’t help but feel it is a beautiful moment in time. Correct me if my facts and memories are off. I hope to one day watch everything chronologically, but seeing these footprints along the King’s Road in random order and piecing together the walk they took has been a special trip for me. This is after Misawa finally toppled Jumbo Tsuruta in singles competition, Kawada was battling his future partner Taue, and Kobashi was still a few years from toppling Hansen and turning the corner from underdog to warrior. It can be hard not to see Past and Future when looking in that ring. The present, however, happened to be the battle for dominance of All Japan. The young attractive Super Generation Army vs the grizzled Tsuruta-Gun. 

Sometimes when I write these reviews I have a tendency to pause to write things down. For this match I’m more inclined to stay in my bed with my phone and just let it all happen. Hopefully speaking from my heart can produce something readable.

 

*watches match*

 

The first thing that I want to write about is how stellar the selling was. From the beginning, watching Jumbo take Misawa’s elbows and bending his body backwards as he’s stumbling to the corner was just beautiful. Misawa’s pained face as Tsuruta returns the favor. Kobashi just being beaten throughout the match. There’s a segment where he is getting stomped out and I just can’t look away from how his body reacts. Taue’s lanky legs sprawl out as he’s getting kicked. Something about Taue’s body just works for me. Kawada’s sells the whole match by grabbing his back throughout.

Speaking of Kawada, this is a classic badass performance. Every chance he gets he’s kicking and striking. Just bringing it. I assumed he was going to be taken out when Taue body slammed him in the floor, but he just used that as motivation to do the same. Even when he’s not the legal man, just kicking Taue numerous times in the head and slamming him to the floor.

Kawada and Jumbo had my favorite segment in the match. Running back and forth and just clobbering each other. It was right after Taue had Kawada down and tags in Jumbo. The moment Tsuruta is in, its Elbow City and Kawada is swinging. Jumbo strikes back and throws him against the ropes for a lariat. Kawada ducks and hits Jumbo with a rebound spinning kick. As Jumbo stumbles back to the turnbuckle, Kawada tags in Misawa and the crowd erupts. Bouncing off Misawa’s elbows, Misawa bodyslams and follows it with a flying elbow. So well executed. 

I can tell Fuchi hates faces. Not just being a bad guy, he literally hates faces. A good deal of his offense was precise and face striking driven. Especially Kenta Kobashi’s face. Masanobu punches Kenta’s face, kicks it, uses the edge of a chair on it, stomps on it, all until Kobashi’s nose bleeds.

Kenta Kobashi is something else. So much fire inside of him. At this point he is such a perfect underdog. He can give so much but his key is taking punishment. The ending works well with Jumbo power bombing him and slamming him around the ring. That backdrop driver to end it. Jumbo gets his revenge on Misawa by beating up poor Kenta.

I feel like recommending this match to a few of my friends. Thanks @supremebve! I was planning on watching more but I don’t think it’ll be fair to whatever I watch next. So I’ll aim to do that and a few others previously posted soon.

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

Its pretty likely my work schedule will be back to "normal" in about 2 weeks. It is (sadly) also likely that I will no longer have time to keep participating in this project once that happens. I'd like to do a round of WrestleCrap and/or hilarious comedy joke matches before I have to drop out, if that's possible.

Edited May 16, 2020 by gordi

[Matt D]

Ok guys. I'll reroll tomorrow. Regardless of what we're doing moving forward,  we'll do wrestlecrap/bad/comedy/etc. this week. In my mind, this is a pretty broad range of stuff. I don't want to take anything off the table for anyone, but something like Shawn Michaels vs Hulk Hogan (mentioned recently elsewhere on the board) would be as much game for this week as a funny Super Porky match or some trainwreck 00s Divas match. Or likewise, a total uncooperative trainwreck with guys sandbagging each other, etc. Or a completely impossible gimmick match. Bloopers, Bleeps and Bodyslams territory here.

@NikoBaltimore @Morganti you guys want in for this one? It's ok if you don't write a big review. Just give someone a match, take the match from someone else and jot some thoughts. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Matt D

[Octopus]

On 5/4/2020 at 1:42 AM, Curt McGirt said:

Jaguar Yokota vs. Lioness Asuka

This was really great... BUT. After all the struggle they had with the limbwork throughout the match they stopped and went into finisher mode and you had to also stop and say "okay, well I guess they're doing this now". I hate it when that happens. There was no transition at all, it was just bomb time and let's forget about what we've worked on this whole time. But at the same time the struggle and the heart coming through from both performers makes you want to ignore it. The figure four work was epic. Jaguar in particular just has this face representing so many emotions at once; hostility, pride, vengeance, a great sense of passion. It tells you "fuck the psychology, just love this". And it works, to a certain extent. Someone else just please watch this match and tell me what you thought about it, because I need a comparison. 

Right now I am enjoying coffee. Getting used to weekends. Even before the pandemic I didn’t have 2 days off in a row, Sundays and Wednesday. So now that we’re back to work I’m enjoying the idea of relaxing today AND tomorrow. Schedule changed so my store is open Monday-Friday. So this morning my wife and I were watching a few episodes of Recess to get that Saturday morning cartoon vibe going. After a few episodes she left to be on her phone in our room and here I am on the couch, with a coffee and reading about Joshi. Stream of consciousness lead my mind to wonder to this post. I feel eager to type/ ramble as I think. I’m not really making a point, per say. Just capturing a moment so it doesn’t leave me.

I remember feeling the same way you did about this match, however still coming away with being blown away by it. I’m chalking a good deal of that to the awe of the being new to the world of Joshi. Maybe like an agnostic walking into a large Catholic cathedral. Not agreeing completely with the message but still in awe of the structure. I think you hit the nail on the head with a willingness to ignore the layout of the match due to how well the performances are. 

I generally subscribe to the idea of story elements and narrative focusing being done for a reason. If the focus is going after a leg or any body part should generally have a reason for doing that. Not always leading to strictly having to do with the ending, but a clear resemblance of the presence of that focus having meaning throughout. This match in particular has the feeling of 2 movements. Majority of the match is limbwork, than followed by the ending which involves sunsetflips, suplexes, and big swings. 

I still can manage to buy into the match if I feel the opening has the goal of tiring your opponents down so you’ll be able to execute your power moves with less resistance. Maybe if the offense was the same but the presence of the workers limping would work. Falling to your knees after the big swing, perhaps? 

I can see me coming off illogic by enjoying this. If I were to give star ratings it wouldn’t be five but an impressive number, while still having those complaints. I feel what makes me a hypocrite is in movies and television when a narrative is uneven like this match I tend to be much more openly critical. Without giving spoilers, the second season of Daredevil is an example of this. The first half seemed more drawn from realism within its MCU world and the shift to the second half’s mysticism turned me off. Twin Peaks was able to do that same shift successfully, but thats because the narrative still had sprinkles of what was to come. 

All in all, lovely match. I’m on board with you and hopefully soon I can dive into each character. See if their other matches follow the same formula or if that is specific to this match.

[DJ Hero Morganti]

Sure I'll give someone a match.  Especially for this week.

[supremebve]

Nobuhiko Takada vs. Super Vader (December 5, 1993)

I’m usually over critical about shoot-style matches, because they don’t feel as dangerous as a real fight or as fun as a wrestling match.  This match kind of pulls off both.  As far as danger goes, fighting Vader seems about as dangerous as anything you can do in a wrestling ring.  And there is a psychology to this match that allows them to tell a pro wrestling story.  Vader is a mauler, who can and will dominate Takada with his massive size advantage.  Takada on the other hand is quicker, has superior technique, and uses leg kicks to slowly sap the strength out of the larger man. 

Two things really make this match work in a way for me in a way that most shoot-style matches don’t.  First, no punches to the head.  This is  small thing, but it makes a big difference.  If Vader is just beating the bejesus out of Takada with punches, I don’t think this match would work after the first few minutes.  Since he has to use palm strikes and slaps, it’s fairly realistic that Takada can weather that storm.  The second thing that works is the 10 count.  Takada takes two really big power slams, and if this was a modern MMA fight Vader would be able to finish him off, but the 10 count rule makes it feel like there is a chance that Takada can recover.  It’s the perfect set of rules for a match like this. 

I think the key to this match is the fact that Vader is just an incredible monster, and Takada is such a charismatic babyface.  Vader beats the hell out of Takada for about 75% of the match, but when Takada comes firing back with leg kicks you believe in it 100%. I remember watching old Pride shows and someone (maybe Mauro?) referred to him as the Hulk Hogan of Japanese wrestling.  I always thought that was absurd in about 38 different ways, but after watching this match I kind of see it for the first time.  Takada is a star.  He has the crowd eating out of the palm of his hands for the entire match

I really enjoyed this.  I’m not a full shoot-style convert, but I’m much more willing to watch more after this match that I was before watching it.

[Octopus]

Glad you like doing it, @supremebve! I think you pinpointed why I enjoyed it also. Nobuhiko Takada ‘s charisma really drew me in. I was so excited with his comeback. Vader looks so legitimate as a monster, yet doesn’t do anything that would realistically murder-kill Takada. 

[supremebve]

7 minutes ago, OctopusCinema said:

Glad you like doing it, @supremebve! I think you pinpointed why I enjoyed it also. Nobuhiko Takada ‘s charisma really drew me in. I was so excited with his comeback. Vader looks so legitimate as a monster, yet doesn’t do anything that would realistically murder-kill Takada. 

Yeah, those powerslams looked absolutely brutal, but at the same time it was realistic that Takada could recover enough to answer the 10-count.  I don't know who came up with the idea of the 10-count, but this match doesn't work without it.  If Vader was able to follow up and after the powerslams the match just ends, there's not really anything that Takada could have done to realistically stop him from finishing him at that point.  Having 10 seconds to recover, clear the cobwebs, and reset gives Takada and the audience enough time to believe he has a chance.  

[SirSmUgly]

@AxB offered me this:

Orange Cassidy vs. Effy

I might have seen this or part of this before, maybe? It seems faintly familiar. Maybe not, though. Effy's working a genderqueer gimmick, I surmise. I'm just glad that the person working a genderqueer gimmick is greeted as a face by the crowd. That's refreshing. And in Tennessee! Well, Nashville, so a city and not the boonies where the SMW audience lives, but still! 

Anyway, the match is basically schtick from both wrestlers. I do think that I might have seen this before. It's whatever. if you like the schtick, you'll like the match. Both wrestlers are likable, but I don't know if there was enough athletic contest in there for me. I'm glad that this exists, I love that it works for people, and hell, I enjoy this sort of thing sometimes - I used to enjoy The Colony in CHIKARA, for example - but yeah, I do need more of a semblance of an actual athletic contest, maybe. 

OC's schtick works way better for me as part of the Best Friends where they do the work of wrestling a match that is conventionally competitive. But I think it's a cool alternative concept of "working" in a post-structuralist era where kayfabe is dead and everyone is very aware of the common tropes and conventions of a wrestling match. Not my thing, but people need to be out here challenging what wrestling is and how characters and matches are constructed in 2020 because it's at least interesting whether or not it captivates me personally. 

[NikoBaltimore]

22 hours ago, Matt D said:

Ok guys. I'll reroll tomorrow. Regardless of what we're doing moving forward,  we'll do wrestlecrap/bad/comedy/etc. this week. In my mind, this is a pretty broad range of stuff. I don't want to take anything off the table for anyone, but something like Shawn Michaels vs Hulk Hogan (mentioned recently elsewhere on the board) would be as much game for this week as a funny Super Porky match or some trainwreck 00s Divas match. Or likewise, a total uncooperative trainwreck with guys sandbagging each other, etc. Or a completely impossible gimmick match. Bloopers, Bleeps and Bodyslams territory here.

@NikoBaltimore @Morganti you guys want in for this one? It's ok if you don't write a big review. Just give someone a match, take the match from someone else and jot some thoughts. 

Oh I'm so in for this one. Now I just need to see who the poor soul will be that sees it.