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Puroresu General Discussion for 2020


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Jeez louise, I thought I remembered the mess that was early 2000s NJPW pretty well but somehow I never saw this gem until just now. It's an eight-man single elimination tournament conducted two fights at a time (like two simultaneous fights in the same ring) with wacky worked-MMA rules. FWIW Waterman and Naruse have a decent exchange. Waterman in general seemed game for this gong show, possibly because he knew he was going over. Sumiyabazar, on the other hand, seems to have not gotten the memo that this was a work, as he comes on pretty fast and stiff with Nagai and Nagata. Nagata gets booed a bit when he beats Sumiyabazar by decision---that he was able to have a second title run and be as over as he was despite Inoki's constant burial of him in the ring with shooter guys is a testament to the dude's raw talent. The real reason to watch is Nakanishi and a young Yano having possibly the worst worked MMA segment I've ever seen (which amounts to the two of them basically rolling around on the mat doing nothing and keeping their eyes on Waterman and Naruse so that they know when it's time to take it home). Can't really blame them, or any of the eight guys in this cluster, for what a goofy match this is...they were all sent out there to do stuff they're not trained to do and put in front of a crowd who had been calling bullshit on matches like this since like Naoya Ogawa first came on the scene. I also only vaguely remember Waterman doing anything in NJPW and I have zero recollection whatsoever of Sumiyabazar so I wonder who they were grooming either guy to square off against after this match. I'd have to check who was IWGP champ at the time but I guess possibly they were pushing for a Sasaki vs Waterman title match...or Fujita vs. Waterman...or Sapp vs. Waterman...or...

 

 

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I don't think about it, but I vividly remember all the stupid shit they were doing during that period. Remember the trend online of people claiming that was a golden age for a few years there? Good times.

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On 9/21/2020 at 5:57 AM, Ryan said:

I don't think about it, but I vividly remember all the stupid shit they were doing during that period. Remember the trend online of people claiming that was a golden age for a few years there? Good times.

I remember how actively *bad* Nakanishi was in that period (he would get better years later when he worked with Tanahashi). There were so many deluded Inoki marks around during that time thanks to Stuart's site talking about how Manaboo was like tr00 muga or Gotchism or strong pro wres and all kinds of other bonkers verbiage they used to try to talk around the fact the guy was a total goof who had exclusively bad matches and was still always pushed and protected, like he was the Ultimate Warrior of New Japan or something. Dark times. 

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Early 2000s Nakanishi had some great matches but didn't deserve the push he was given. His team with Nishimura was a blast and I remember loving some beefy boy fights with Takayama. The G1 final win vs. Mutoh was also pretty damned fun. But yeah, low output of goodness for all the opportunities he was afforded.

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4 hours ago, Belgian_Waffle said:

I remember how actively *bad* Nakanishi was in that period (he would get better years later when he worked with Tanahashi). There were so many deluded Inoki marks around during that time thanks to Stuart's site talking about how Manaboo was like tr00 muga or Gotchism or strong pro wres and all kinds of other bonkers verbiage they used to try to talk around the fact the guy was a total goof who had exclusively bad matches and was still always pushed and protected, like he was the Ultimate Warrior of New Japan or something. Dark times. 

 

1 hour ago, Jiji said:

Early 2000s Nakanishi had some great matches but didn't deserve the push he was given. His team with Nishimura was a blast and I remember loving some beefy boy fights with Takayama. The G1 final win vs. Mutoh was also pretty damned fun. But yeah, low output of goodness for all the opportunities he was afforded.

Nakanishi had a good look and was fairly charismatic. His push made sense even if he wasn't actively good because the crowds liked him. Honestly the Ultimate Warrior of NJPW probably isn't a bad comparison though Nakanishi was pretty solid in the years before his injury.

Edited by Eivion
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"Nakanishi was over-pushed" is not incorrect, but it seems like a weird choice of where to focus one's anger w/r/t the dark days of Inokism. It reminds me of this guy I know who recently insisted that his favourite buffet closing down was "The Worst Thing About 2020." I mean, I get that it might be the thing that disappointed him the most, personally, but it's pretty clear that there are far worse things going on at this time.

I remember coming back to Canada (after living for several years in the Czech Republic, where I had very few opportunities to watch any pro wrestling at all) and getting tapes of matches from the '99 and '00 G1 Climax tourneys with Nakanishi and Kensuke and Nagata mixing it up with, like, Chono and Mutoh and other names I knew. I remember loving the hard-hitting, sweat-flying action (particularly the '00 final) and being surprised that there wasn't much discussion of or love for those tournaments in the places I went online at that time. I dunno, I probably also really enjoyed some pretty average chicken wings that year since it had been so long since I'd had them...

Anyway, that made me a Nakanishi fan and I was thrilled to finally see him live in 2005 when we made our first visit to Japan, and again in 2007 when we returned to Japan to get married. In 2009 we moved over here and I got to see Nakanishi as champion (when he lost the belt back to Tanahashi)... I got to see him live a few more times over the years, and I was there for his final match in Osaka at New Beginning in February of this year.

As @Eivionsays, the crowds really liked him. In fact, in Osaka, they LOVED him, every time. Me included.

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YAJIN SMASH WITH HAMMER, RARGH! Nakanishi gets flack for things, but he could be carried and have good matches at times, but he really should have just not come back after the neck injury unless it was a money thing. He didn't look comfortable at any time.

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29 minutes ago, Archibald said:

What do you mean by that? That he is not one of the key players? If so then yes. But should he be one of the key players at this point?

Yeah, that's basically the question. I dunno if he should be at this point (since I haven't watched any NJ), it just seems like he came in as a big deal and now no one would miss him. I imagine he'd be a top guy back in NOAH.

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52 minutes ago, Control said:

Yeah, that's basically the question. I dunno if he should be at this point (since I haven't watched any NJ), it just seems like he came in as a big deal and now no one would miss him. I imagine he'd be a top guy back in NOAH.

I don't know that the New Japan audience ever really treated him that way. I think his heel turn was basically a way to make something useful out of their antipathy. Plus he's had so many injuries and worked such a violent style that his explosiveness/pace is really diminished. So, I think New Japan has him slotted about right. NOAH would probably put him a little higher up the card--but honestly I'm not convinced he'd be ahead of KENOH, Go, Nakajima, or Kiyomiya, and I'm sure KENTA is happier making (I assume) better money without the weight of his and NOAH's mutual legacy. (I doubt he'd entertain trading places with Marafuji for a second.)

Edited by Beech27
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Speaking of NOAH, by complete coincidence I took two weeks off from work this week and next week, without even realizing what time it is.

(Well, not really by coincidence, I would be at wXw Catch Grand Prix right about now, if it wasn't for Corona.)

Long story short, I'm now completely caught up on both G1 Climax and N-1 Victory.

N-1 Victory is really good actually. I can't believe there's activity on this part of the board again and I'm the only one who's watching this.

NOAH in 2020 seems to be mostly beefy guys and guys who kick each other really hard. Especially the latter is very much to my liking.

Katsuhiko Nakajima might be my new favorite wrestler. I mean he's always been great, but now he's just some bastard, who kicks other people's faces off with no remorse.

Kazushi Sakuraba and Masaaki Mochizuki are also really good additions in this. When Sakuraba had his last run in New Japan, I didn't think that much of him, but I'm really digging him here.

The various tags and six-man tags before and inbetween tournament matches are really good, too, actually. This is the most I've enjoyed NOAH in years.

Matches I would highly reccomend so far:

  • Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. Kenou (Day 1)
  • Kazushi Sakuraba vs. Masaaki Mochizuki (Day 2)
  • Naomichi Marufuji vs. Takashi Sugiura (Day 3)
  • Katsuhiko Nakajima vs. Shuhei Taniguchi (Day 4 Afternoon)
  • Naomichi Marufuji vs. Kenou (Day 4 Evening)
  • Go Shiozaki vs. Masaaki Mochizuki (Day 4 Evening)
Edited by The Z
Bad spelling
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I'd like to nominate the Nagata/Nakanishi Broadway from Yuji's first IWGP reign as "The Good Nakanishi Match".
 

And when I saw that preview of the god-awful 1/4/05 Inokism Clusterfuck Royale I was hoping it was the really good, really wacky main event Elimination Match from Ultimate Crush II. Sapp/Nakamura/Fujita/Takayama/Suzuki vs. Nagata/Nakanishi/Tenzan/Tanahashi/Sakaguchi.

 

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4 hours ago, Control said:

Why does Nak get such shit when boring old Nishimura is right there?

May 29th, 1493; Constantinople and the Byzantine Empire fall, the Ottoman Empire ascends and the kingdoms of Europe begin a process of reformation. History is forever changed.

July 20th, 1969; Human feet find ground to walk on beyond that of our fair Earth, as Armstrong embodies the beautiful inevitable in the face of the terrifying unknown.

September 25th, 2020: User Control of the DVDVR message board has an opinion so bad that all prior human madness, ignorance, and willful absurdity are rendered moot. The World's Dumbest Man attempts to reply to this post and abdicate his title, but alas, he cannot spell "abdicate".

Edited by John E. Dynamite
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