2020 NFL OFFSEASON THREAD

[Beech27]

PFF had Dak second in WAR last season, behind Russell Wilson. Granted, that's a less refined metric in football than baseball; but I think it's entirely possible that he's a top-5 QB now and going forward. 

I think Mahomes is number one, then Wilson, Watson, and... well, I'd listen to Dak over Lamar. I like Murray, but he's not there yet. Brady and Brees are over 40, and Rogers is almost there. Burrow and Tua haven't taken an NFL snap yet. I'd listen to arguments for Wentz, Stafford and Cousins are... ok. Tannehil has one good season. 

And as noted above, it's not "Dak or a sure-thing top-5 QB". If you let Dak walk, you start from scratch. Maybe you can do better. Probably not easily, though. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Beech27

[MavsFan77]

1 minute ago, supremebve said:

Is a top 5 quarterback available?  No?  Then you pay who you have, because he's better than anyone else you can get.  If you look at the top 5 highest paid quarterbacks, especially before yesterday, it isn't exactly a murderer's row of quarterbacking.  It's a bunch of dudes who you can't let walk.  That's the game.  

Then maybe the owners should smarten up, and let some of these bums walk. He’ll look at Indianapolis when Peyton got hurt before. They tanked a season, and got Andrew Luck. Sometimes it’s better to just start over. 

And here’s the top 5 from before Mahomes got paid:

Russell Wilson (Seahawks) – $53 million

Kirk Cousins (Vikings) – $40 million

Carson Wentz (Eagles) – $39.3 million

Ryan Tannehill (Titans) – $37.5 million

Jared Goff (Rams) – $31 million
 

While as you pointed out it’s not a Murderer’s row by any means I’d take the entire top 4 over Dak. Wilson in particular earns his, because of his popularity with the fan base, and how well he performs yearly.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

I'm a die hard Giant's fan (as you can probably tell by my avatar lol) and... I have no idea what you're on dude. Dak is good. Real good. Is he going to get paid? Absolutely. The Giants haven't been relevant in a minute so maybe it's just residual heat for a division rival. But Dak should get paid, will get paid, and I have no idea what you're even arguing about.

Jerry Jones is a dumpster fire of an owner & GM, but I'd take him any day of the week over Gettleman. How you pay your number one player big money then trade him away immediately is beyond me. Gettleman legit said he didn't think he could draft as well this year because he couldn't physically be close enough to smell the players due to the virus. Uh whuuut? The Giants have their own shit to worry about instead of accepting Dak is getting paid and probably going to kick our ass 7 out of 8 games ever 4 years.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Just now, Beech27 said:

PFF had Dak second in WAR last season, behind Russel Wilson. Granted, that's a less refined metric in football than baseball; but I think it's entirely possible that he's a top-5 QB now and going forward. 

I think Mahomes is number one, then Wilson, Watson, and... well, I'd listen to Dak over Lamar. I like Murray, but he's not there yet. Brady and Brees are over 40, and Rogers is almost there. Burrow and Tua haven't taken an NFL snap yet. I'd listen to arguments for Wentz, Stafford and Cousins are... ok. Tannehil has one good season. 

And as noted above, it's not "Dak or a sure-thing top-5 QB". If you let Dak walk, you start from scratch. Maybe you can do better. Probably not easily, though. 

The last two franchise quarterbacks Dallas have had in Romo and Prescott, they've absolutely backdoored their way into. Look at their track record for drafting quarterbacks in the Jerry Jones era. It's absolutely abysmal (made worse by the fact Dallas is never high enough in the draft to get a potentially elite player save for Zeke maybe). They got something out of an undrafted QB for awhile and then lucked their way into Dak Prescott when that guy couldn't stay healthy. The chances of Jerry Jones finding another great quarterback in the manner he found the last two is slim to none. Dallas in free agency always plays it super safe (in part cause Jerry and Stephen don't know what the fuck they're doing), which has hindered the franchise for several years especially the defensive play on the field.

[supremebve]

Just now, MavsFan77 said:

Then maybe the owners should smarten up, and let some of these bums walk. He’ll look at Indianapolis when Peyton got hurt before. They tanked a season, and got Andrew Luck. Sometimes it’s better to just start over. 

And here’s the top 5 from before Mahomes got paid:

Russell Wilson (Seahawks) – $53 million

Kirk Cousins (Vikings) – $40 million

Carson Wentz (Eagles) – $39.3 million

Ryan Tannehill (Titans) – $37.5 million

Jared Goff (Rams) – $31 million
 

While as you pointed out it’s not a Murderer’s row by any means I’d take the entire top 4 over Dak. Wilson in particular earns his, because of his popularity with the fan base, and how well he performs yearly.

Russell Wilson is the only player on this list as good as Dak Prescott.  There isn't a single criticsm of Dak Prescott that doesn't isn't double for Kirk Cousins.  

[Elsalvajeloco]

Prior to the Vikings game (@ Dallas) last year, Kirk Cousins was so laughably bad against (usually mediocre) Cowboys teams that he almost appeared not worthy of being in the NFL. That's what we're talking about here.

[Beech27]

1 hour ago, MavsFan77 said:

Then maybe the owners should smarten up, and let some of these bums walk. Hell look at Indianapolis when Peyton got hurt before. They tanked a season, and got Andrew Luck. Sometimes it’s better to just start over. 

Well, there isn't an Andrew Luck level prospect every decade, much less every season. But even putting that aside, did it work out better for the Colts? Manning set records in Denver, lost a SB as a great player, and then won one as a declining player. 

Luck had a promising career ruined by injuries; but if we want to use your criteria, he was 17-26 against winning teams (although he tended to be better than average in these games), and had very little playoff success.

Getting the QB position right is really hard. It costs a lot accordingly. It's harder for Dallas, because they've spent too much on less valuable positions. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Beech27

[Brian Fowler]

Our old board mate Bill did a deep dive on this in June. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29247938/debunking-dak-prescott-contract-debate-facts-fiction-why-cowboys-pay-him

[Raziel]

2 hours ago, MavsFan77 said:

Then maybe the owners should smarten up, and let some of these bums walk. He’ll look at Indianapolis when Peyton got hurt before. They tanked a season, and got Andrew Luck. Sometimes it’s better to just start over. 

And here’s the top 5 from before Mahomes got paid:

Russell Wilson (Seahawks) – $53 million

Kirk Cousins (Vikings) – $40 million

Carson Wentz (Eagles) – $39.3 million

Ryan Tannehill (Titans) – $37.5 million

Jared Goff (Rams) – $31 million
 

While as you pointed out it’s not a Murderer’s row by any means I’d take the entire top 4 over Dak. Wilson in particular earns his, because of his popularity with the fan base, and how well he performs yearly.

I'm an Eagles fan...

 

There's no way in HELL I'd take Wentz over Dak.

[The Man Known as Dan]

If Dallas doesn’t want to pay Dak, let the Bears have him so he can immediately become the best QB in franchise history while the Cowboys run with the modern equivalent of Quincy Carter.

[The Man Known as Dan]

10 hours ago, hammerva said:

Desean Jackson must really want out of Philly again.  Although misquoting Hitler might not be the right strategy 

It's kinda amazing this was only brought up briefly here. This story is pretty god damned fucked up.

[Kuetsar]

Isn't the timing a bit weird on this Mahomes thing though? He's the best qb and deserves the largest amount, but as a franchise wouldn't you want to wait to see what the post covid market is like? If the next tv contract drops in terms of $$$(not likely but possible) then this contract becomes a huge albatross no matter the talent involved. 

[Tabe]

21 hours ago, MavsFan77 said:

Then maybe the owners should smarten up, and let some of these bums walk. He’ll look at Indianapolis when Peyton got hurt before. They tanked a season, and got Andrew Luck. Sometimes it’s better to just start over. 

And here’s the top 5 from before Mahomes got paid:

Russell Wilson (Seahawks) – $53 million

Kirk Cousins (Vikings) – $40 million

Carson Wentz (Eagles) – $39.3 million

Ryan Tannehill (Titans) – $37.5 million

Jared Goff (Rams) – $31 million
 

While as you pointed out it’s not a Murderer’s row by any means I’d take the entire top 4 over Dak. Wilson in particular earns his, because of his popularity with the fan base, and how well he performs yearly.

Dak is definitely better than every guy on this list except Wilson.  I'm not sold on Dak as an elite guy but he's definitely very good.  Needs to work on consistency but clearly has the talent.  30 TDs last year sounds good but 20 of them came in just 6 games.  So 10 the the other 10 games, including four games with none.  That's...not good.  So there's room for improvement.  But if Carson Wentz is paid $39m, Dak should be good for $45m.

[Dolfan in NYC]

 

[MavsFan77]

35 minutes ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

 

I’m not shocked he has more TDs than Phil Simms (hell I guarantee any of the current starters that last 8+ seasons and are any good will), but having a higher completion percentage than Dan Marino amazes me. 

Actually so does the INT rate as I remember him being trashed something awful when he was in Buffalo for how many picks he’d throw. So I’d assumed that number was closer to 5. 

[RIPPA]

26 minutes ago, MavsFan77 said:

Actually so does the INT rate as I remember him being trashed something awful when he was in Buffalo for how many picks he’d throw. So I’d assumed that number was closer to 5. 

Always remember to factor in difference in eras (for all these stats). I mean if you are picking weasly stats - George Blanda has more TDs and he played two positions and had a club foot! 

Anyway - Fitzpatrick has 4787 attempts to Namath's 3762

Also remember that Namath threw a fuck ton of INTs. His 220 is Top 20 of all time. Fitz has only thrown 161

Now if Fitz played 16 games every year - he would be a lot closer to Namath

[RIPPA]

God Dammit - George Blanda. Tom Dempsey

All look same

[EdA]

1 minute ago, RIPPA said:

Always remember to factor in difference in eras (for all these stats). I mean if you are picking weasly stats - George Blanda has more TDs and he played two positions and had a club foot! 

I was going to say that was the first time George Blanda was confused with Tom Dempsey.  Then I googled "George Blanda club foot" and sadly all old white straight ahead kickers apparently are the same.  Blanda was just born old, not with a clubfoot.

[EdA]

6 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

Always remember to factor in difference in eras (for all these stats). I mean if you are picking weasly stats - George Blanda has more TDs and he played two positions and had a club foot! 

Anyway - Fitzpatrick has 4787 attempts to Namath's 3762

Also remember that Namath threw a fuck ton of INTs. His 220 is Top 20 of all time. Fitz has only thrown 161

Now if Fitz played 16 games every year - he would be a lot closer to Namath

And in fairness to Namath, he played in an era where WR's were allowed to be crime victims going downfield.  So...yeah.  QB stats are...not something to compare across eras.

[Tabe]

46 minutes ago, MavsFan77 said:

I’m not shocked he has more TDs than Phil Simms (hell I guarantee any of the current starters that last 8+ seasons and are any good will), but having a higher completion percentage than Dan Marino amazes me. 

Actually so does the INT rate as I remember him being trashed something awful when he was in Buffalo for how many picks he’d throw. So I’d assumed that number was closer to 5. 

Well, he did throw a ton of picks in Buffalo.  Led the league one year.  And had INT rates of 4.8 and 5.2 two other years.  Those are all really bad numbers.

Fitzpatrick has had himself a nice career when it's all said and done.

[RIPPA]

Update around what will be Washington's new name

Apparently it will be announced within the next two weeks. Some folks believe it will still be impossible to change everything for this season and that the team might just be "Washington" for the season. Who knows.

Anyway - via multiple reports - they will keep Burgundy and Gold however the new name with have no Native American imagery (which would seem to rule out Warriors - though it has come out that Dan Snyder let his trademark on that run out anyway)

 

[RIPPA]

Many current players are destroying this as to just one of the examples of how stupid the NFL is (the other one is how everyone is required to wear masks on the sideline... except the head coach)

[BobbyWhioux]

I can actually see why the league thinks playing will still be feasible, considering how getting within 6ft of the QB or coughing in their general vicinity has already been a 15 yard penalty for years.

So from their perspective it shouldn’t be that big of an adjustment for players to make.

[BobbyWhioux]

Embarrassing attempt at casting the illusion of safety on the league’s part.

[Brian Fowler]

Reminds me of the story Alvarez was saying on WOR or wherever about his friend who is a wrestling coach taking kids to a tournament in the early part of the pandemic, and the kids not being allowed to shake hands before or after the match.

Like, if it's safe enough for them to wrestle, it's safe enough to shake hands, and if it's not safe to shake hands, it's damn sure not safe to wrestle.