AEW - DEC 2019

[EVA]

Man, I liked Omega/Sabian quite a bit more than I was expecting.  Did a very good job of establishing Kenny was several levels above him and probably would’ve smoked him without all the interference from Ford.  That has traditionally not been something Kenny is very good at.  Sabian got to show a lot of personality, which is probably the most important thing right now for building his character.

Kenny is still doing about 2 nearfalls too many in these Dark main events, as the crowd seemed peaked and ready to go home before the actual finish both here and against Jack a couple weeks ago, but you can see his progression as he figures out how to work these types of matches.

[Craig H]

I don't know...Leva and Avalon both look like a bunch of librarians around here.

[Technico Support]

3 hours ago, MORELOCK said:

Creative has nothing for them, eh?

At least we're getting all the librarian segments we could ever want.

Come on, man.  That's a really disingenuous "HAHA GOTCHA" point you're throwing out there.  I seriously doubt the two minutes it takes for the Librarians to do a dumb skit or get squashed would better benefit a guy they have real plans for, like Sabian. 

That's like pointing out an 80s episode of WWF Superstars "giving time" to Dusty Wolf or Ricky Ataki while Randy Savage isn't on that week.  Like yeah, that's technically correct, but it makes no real point.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Technico Support

[Goodear]

What a DUMB show Dark is. 

Triple Threat was pure AEW dart board booking with three random people having a random match.  Havoc going for the staple gun immediately begs the question of why he just didn't carry it to the ring.  If he just dropped it in a corner or something we wouldn't have to have him looking for it like he forgot where he put it.  I thought Taylor's line about Jimmy writing checks his bank account can't cash was funny but inadvertently raises a lot of questions of how much Havoc makes and could afford.  I think $10,000 is a good fine amount that is not too little to be sound like the talent is poor (oh, no!  I've been fined $500!) and not so much that it strains believably.  They obviously can't do it every week because that's pretty silly.  I would have preferred this being a part of a feud than a gimmick but whatever.

Marko Stunt getting the pinfall in a jobber tag match on the B show is a waste of a 'big first win' pop.  Just have Luchasaurus get the pin and you avoid that.  Also great job booking Stunt against the other two shortest guys in the roster so it minimizes his size and thus undermining the heat.

Main event did a great job of making referee Aubrey look stupid as a box of rocks. She was the only referee with any sense of gravitas and authority in the promotion and *flush*. They couldn't have Ford set up her interference in any way to be more clever than walking right into the ring in plain view of the official? Glad they had Penelope interfere like 4 times but she didn't think to stop Omega's telegraphed to shit V trigger with I don't know... a trip.

[EVA]

On the first Penelope run-in, I think either Sabian or Aubrey missed their cue to get turned around and it happened too late, which put her in the bad spot of blatantly having seen Penelope enter, but the intent was clearly there to try to protect her.

For the finish, I think the intent was to play off the classic bit where the manager knows their guy is done for and goes for the DQ to save him, but Kenny staved Penelope off and Aubrey used her discretion to allow them to play on for a decisive outcome.

[Technico Support]

I haven't seen the match yet but in general, AEW has to do better at not making their refs look like goofs.  If their wrestlers can't pull off a distraction spot, then don't do a distraction spot.  If a guy can't kick out at 2.9 without the ref holding up their count at 2.8, then don't try to do late kickouts.  And for god's sake don't do intricate interference spots where a guy has to take the ref for a full minute or two or a situation where something happens the the ref should obviously hear or maybe see peripherally.  Sorry but if you're supposed to be the alternative to sports entertainment and present a more real-spots-like product, then you can't do this hokey shit.

[MORELOCK]

2 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Come on, man.  That's a really disingenuous "HAHA GOTCHA" point you're throwing out there.  I seriously doubt the two minutes it takes for the Librarians to do a dumb skit or get squashed would better benefit a guy they have real plans for, like Sabian. 

That's like pointing out an 80s episode of WWF Superstars "giving time" to Dusty Wolf or Ricky Ataki while Randy Savage isn't on that week.  Like yeah, that's technically correct, but it makes no real point.

You think everything I say is disingenuous. I'm not going to ignore flaws in AEW's presentation because they're a WWE alternative. I'm not trying to "ha ha get" anything except a better wrestling show. Also Dusty Wolfe didn't have a gimmick and mic time IIRC.

[HarryArchieGus]

It’s so easy to complain. Kip Sabian not getting enough to work with is hardly hurting a product that is clearly a billion times better than anything produced in the US in nearly two decades.  The librarians are used sparingly as cannon fodder - what’s to complain about? 

It’s never going to be perfect, and of course the first year, let alone 3 fucking months, is going to have some mistakes (tho slowly acting upon an unready talent like Sabian is hardly a mistake nor is using the librarians as enhancement talent).  Try a wee tiny bit harder to enjoy the fantastic show we’re getting or maybe stop watching.  I hear there’s a great cuckold angle on Monday nights.

Edited December 12, 2019 by HarryArchieGus

[Goodear]

Or ... OR both shows are bad in different ways.  Rather than just swallowing any garbage AEW produce, you can look at it objectively and make a judgment.  This ‘it’s a new show’ talking point is already tired. How many shows do they need to have the damn sound work right?  How long until they get it strait wether or not the Jericho-Jungle Boy match is for the title or not?  Because if you watched Dark this week, Tony thought it was for the belt. They’ve had at least 4 major referee screw ups.  They’re sloppy as hogs.

But I’m sure you’re enjoying the Voodoo witch cutting off people’s hair gimmick.

[SirSmUgly]

OR a show can have bad points but not be overall bad in comparison to another bad show on another network. 

I also don't find it surprising that people are giving a company that is essentially a start-up more leeway in comparison to a company that has been established for decades. 

I do think, though, that Jericho and Cody paper over a LOT of the cracks that AEW's showing right now and that Dark generally doesn't have those two to lean on, so the negatives are more immediately obvious. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Smelly McUgly

[Kang]

[MORELOCK]

2 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

It’s so easy to complain. Kip Sabian not getting enough to work with is hardly hurting a product that is clearly a billion times better than anything produced in the US in nearly two decades.  The librarians are used sparingly as cannon fodder - what’s to complain about? 

It’s never going to be perfect, and of course the first year, let alone 3 fucking months, is going to have some mistakes (tho slowly acting upon an unready talent like Sabian is hardly a mistake nor is using the librarians as enhancement talent).  Try a wee tiny bit harder to enjoy the fantastic show we’re getting or maybe stop watching.  I hear there’s a great cuckold angle on Monday nights.

 

"Complain about nothing or stop watching" isn't how discussion threads work. The WWE threads are pages and pages of complaints, I'm sure everyone here can handle me saying they should pull the mic out of Peter Avalon's hand. Get a grip.

[AxB]

5 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

 

 The WWE threads are pages and pages of complaints.

They're quite a bit shorter than they used to be though, aren't they?

[odessasteps]

2 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:OR a show can have bad points but not be overall bad in comparison to another bad show on another network. 

I also don't find it surprising that people are giving a company that is essentially a start-up more leeway in comparison to a company that has been established for decades.

There seemed to a lot of kool aid drinking in the AEW threads. Whether that’s people enjoying their product or wanting them to succeed just to be an alternative to Vince’s company or being in the demo that wants a new company to call their own, I think that probably covers most of the posts I read in the threads. 

admittedly, I am not watching the show and have no desire to start, but it is good there are more available places for guys to work. 

[sabremike]

8 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

There seemed to a lot of kool aid drinking in the AEW threads. Whether that’s people enjoying their product or wanting them to succeed just to be an alternative to Vince’s company or being in the demo that wants a new company to call their own, I think that probably covers most of the posts I read in the threads. 

admittedly, I am not watching the show and have no desire to start, but it is good there are more available places for guys to work. 

You refer to people who like AEW as "Kool Aid drinkers" which implies that you don't think the product is as good as they think, then say "Admittedly, I am not watching the show.". If you don't watch the show or even follow the promotion how can you offer any valid criticism of said show?

[Web Conn]

I don’t know if I would call myself an AEW mark but I attended Double or Nothing, have ordered All In, All Out and Full Gear. I’ve watched every episode of Dynamite besides one. I’m don’t follow Dark as closely but I’ve watched episodes. I am really enjoying the promotion. It’s not without its hiccups but that’s to be expected. I haven’t watched a WWE show since Hell in a Cell, I’ve even let my Network Subscription pass. 

it’s fun to have a viable number two after all these years of having one game in town. Let’s not forget Vince has scorched a lot of earth in these last 18 years doing some damage to the North American landscape that is going to take awhile to repair abs rebuild. If you don’t like AEW that’s cool you don’t have to but don’t attack others for enjoying the prizoduct.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Web Conn

[Nice Guy Eddie]

18 minutes ago, sabremike said:

You refer to people who like AEW as "Kool Aid drinkers" which implies that you don't think the product is as good as they think, then say "Admittedly, I am not watching the show.". If you don't watch the show or even follow the promotion how can you offer any valid criticism of said show?

You can't.

[Craig H]

1 hour ago, odessasteps said:

There seemed to a lot of kool aid drinking in the AEW threads. Whether that’s people enjoying their product or wanting them to succeed just to be an alternative to Vince’s company or being in the demo that wants a new company to call their own, I think that probably covers most of the posts I read in the threads. 

admittedly, I am not watching the show and have no desire to start, but it is good there are more available places for guys to work. 

Dude, come on now.

[JonnyLaw]

9 hours ago, sabremike said:

You refer to people who like AEW as "Kool Aid drinkers" which implies that you don't think the product is as good as they think, then say "Admittedly, I am not watching the show.". If you don't watch the show or even follow the promotion how can you offer any valid criticism of said show?

You don’t have to watch the show to read the flaws people have pointed out here. Further, there have been plenty of posts where people have pointed out flaws but dismissed them as something like, “but it doesn’t bother me” or “at least it’s not WWE,” which can give off the appearance Mark referred to.

[MORELOCK]

The way people reacted to me taking issue with one aspect of creative (accusation of trolling, literally telling me not to watch the wrestling show they desperately want to succeed) should tell you all you need to know about whether people are drinking Kool-Aid or not.

*I* want AEW to succeed too, y'all. That doesn't mean their show is perfect. That doesn't mean we can't point out areas that they could improve just like we do for literally every other wrestling show or match.

[NikoBaltimore]

10 hours ago, odessasteps said:

There seemed to a lot of kool aid drinking in the AEW threads. Whether that’s people enjoying their product or wanting them to succeed just to be an alternative to Vince’s company or being in the demo that wants a new company to call their own, I think that probably covers most of the posts I read in the threads. 

admittedly, I am not watching the show and have no desire to start, but it is good there are more available places for guys to work. 

I'm not going to pile on but will admit for me at least while I do enjoy their product (a lot actually) it is definitely also because I  want them to succeed as a true alternative.  I will admit to drinking the Kool Aid but it's weird because I know I am and yet don't seem to have much of a problem with that.    But there's definitely issues such as audio stuff that should have been taken care of by now.  I think it's just that due to the goodwill they've built up since their Bullet Club days I'm likely to forgive them for that.  I would like to think that's true for others but I can only speak for me.

I would advise giving at least one of the episodes a shot though and this week's in particular is a good one to jump into.  Whether you continue after that is up to you.

[Goodear]

12 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:

OR a show can have bad points but not be overall bad in comparison to another bad show on another network. 

I also don't find it surprising that people are giving a company that is essentially a start-up more leeway in comparison to a company that has been established for decades. 

This comparative mentality makes no sense.  Being better than a terrible show doesn't make you good.  Clearing the mighty hurdle of RAW is nothing to be proud of for a wrestling show.

I don't see evidence of the shows getting better so being a start up is no longer an excuse to me.  Make the same mistakes over and over, it's not a sign of growing pains.  It's a sign you are a slipshod organization too busy smelling your own farts to improve.

 

 

[Web Conn]

if You don’t like AEW don’t comment in the AEW threads. You don’t see me in the WWE threads trying to rile people up.

[Dewar]

It's the internet, everyone is here to bitch about something. 

There are valid concerns with what is going on with AEW. Terrible refereeing at times, the women's division booking is a mess, production issues on the television shows, cranky old man announcer saying dumb things. These are things that should be straightened out, but continue to happen. At some point, you need to start learning from your mistakes, and not just make excuses every time something goes wrong. 

 

[mattdangerously]

23 minutes ago, Web Conn said:

if You don’t like AEW don’t comment in the AEW threads. 

Sorry, but that's bullshit.