The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries

[WebConn89]

I liked the story one of granddaughters told that Sheik showed up to grandparents day at her school and all the other grandparents were in her classroom wanting to meet the Sheik.

Sabu getting on Goldberg’s ass for asking about his uncle not knowing Sheik had passed was also a funny story.

[Cobra Commander]

and in news that probably shouldn't be a shocker after the DSOTR episode

https://katu.com/news/local/portland-ex-wrestler-billy-jack-haynes-found-unfit-to-stand-trial-oregon-state-hospital-2nd-degree-murder-domestic-violence-charge-unlawful-use-weapon-defense-prosecutors-case-multnomah-county

 

Quote

A Multnomah County Judge Wednesday ordered William Albert Haynes be sent to the Oregon State Hospital, ruling he is unfit to assist in his own defense.

A copy of the order signed by Judge Angela Lucero cites a report by a certified evaluator that looked at Haynes' behavior at the hearing, statements from his attorneys, and stipulations from both the defense and prosecutors stating that he is unfit.

 

[odessasteps]

I liked the sheik episode. Just for the footage prob. Since not a lot of new info, other than family stories. Also, good genes in the Farhat family.

[RazorbladeKiss87]

6 hours ago, odessasteps said:

I liked the sheik episode. Just for the footage prob. Since not a lot of new info, other than family stories. Also, good genes in the Farhat family.

Yeah, it wasn't the best for hearing new stuff but I love watching The Shiek cause chaos.  Every time I see the FMW fire death match, it blows my mind that anyone could have thought this was a good idea, even by Onita standards.  

[zendragon]

On 5/14/2025 at 11:58 AM, SirSmUgly said:

I sense that I already know the answer to this question, but I'll ask anyway: How much Detroit is preserved on tape? 

Very little, most footage is a bit of early in his career wrestling as GI Ed Farhat and stuff from the 80's onward.

Also fun fact for those who didn't read the book, the Sheik was actually Catholic 

[SovietShooter]

This playlist has like ten full episodes: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5d0ZTRX0Z2IIn991wfJfqc2HbZtii7Pm&si=1mluYlyjSX3vSyjq  

[hammerva]

Next week is on Daffney and while this was going to be a rough one to handle, the fact that her own daughter didn't want to be involved doesn't ease how sad this is going to be

[The Natural]

On 5/17/2025 at 4:52 PM, hammerva said:

Next week is on Daffney and while this was going to be a rough one to handle, the fact that her own daughter didn't want to be involved doesn't ease how sad this is going to be

Yeah, I don't think I'll be able to watch the Daffney one. Fan of her's since she debuted in WCW then TNA. It's too sad a story.

Edited May 19, 2025 by The Natural

[Curt McGirt]

I read the Sheik book and in comparison to the episode I think they were a pretty good match. The author didn't get the Sheik kids to participate which I think is a bit strange, but maybe the passage of time changed their minds. One thing I don't think they talked about much is Sheik going into the service during WWII and actually falsified his age to do it, did they mention that? Is there anything else that was missing? They kind of lowballed his gambling addiction too. Dude was seriously a degenerate who would go to Vegas like Dory said and BLOW some money, he was literally a 'whale' out there. He'd always be able to make the money back though until he couldn't. 

[odessasteps]

3 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

I read the Sheik book and in comparison to the episode I think they were a pretty good match. The author didn't get the Sheik kids to participate which I think is a bit strange, but maybe the passage of time changed their minds. One thing I don't think they talked about much is Sheik going into the service during WWII and actually falsified his age to do it, did they mention that? Is there anything else that was missing? They kind of lowballed his gambling addiction too. Dude was seriously a degenerate who would go to Vegas like Dory said and BLOW some money, he was literally a 'whale' out there. He'd always be able to make the money back though until he couldn't. 

Solomon told me the other day that Eddie Jr advised the family members not to participate in the book. 

[zendragon]

DSOTR also pays for interviews which is why Sabu and Abby participated, Brian Solomon did say that he connected the Sheiks family with DSOTR crew though. I think they where skeptical of the the book process but happy with the final result. 

[odessasteps]

Yeah, Brian said he was in contact with one of the grandkids now. 

Edited May 19, 2025 by odessasteps

[Peck]

Made it through without crying until they brought up the Vicky Lions match. I had no idea...  

Such a sad, sad story.

[Curt McGirt]

She was the fuckin' best. And I didn't know how much "the best" she was until I watched that. 

And I never ever want to see that again. 

Rest in peace, girl. 

[Nice Guy Eddie]

I made it through the Daffney episode without crying. I don't want to say I'm numb to death, but between my career choice and being a wrestling fan, it's hard for me to cry over the death of people I don't know anymore. Hell, it's been over three years and I still haven't cried over losing my father. That said, this was incredibly hard to watch knowing how the story ends. Mental health is a sensitive subject with me due to my own struggles. I like to think of the DVDVR as one big, weird family, so if any of you ever need to talk about anything, my inbox is open. 

[Cobra Commander]

I won't go too deep into the "Daffney got her action figures in the settlement with TNA" without knowing who suggested that part of the deal.

Daffney really ran into two things that really weren't understood that well at the time, mental health and concussions, and not to be glib about it because they essentially said the same thing, but it turns out concussions are even worse when you have bipolar disorder.

Devon Storm looking like he could get work playing a nu-metal musician in a movie these days. Like if they needed a guy to be in a Law and Order episode as a knockoff Andrew WK, I think Devon Storm has the looks for the role. Devon is still wrestling, BTW.

Mick Foley still among the several people in wrestling whose relationships with female wrestlers is wholesome.

Also for some mysterious reason, my taping of this episode was 90 minutes so I turned down a chance to watch the program that airs after DSOTR on Vice. Royals had a game in SF.

[NikoBaltimore]

I was hesitant on watching but felt it was best to do so.  Things were fine enough until the Instagram live stuff was brought up.  From then on I had to pause a few times as it got pretty rough.  Just a really, really sad story.

I don't want to say do not watch the episode if you feel it will trigger something.  I mean obviously if you feel that don't but I just don't want to tell people what to do or not do.  But just a heads up this will hit like a metric ton of bricks yet it's a story that is very much worth telling with tons of helpful information.

Also, I am trying to not play the blame game and yeah the people and company are wildly different than before.  But fuck TNA, at least in that timeframe.  Fuck them so much and whoever in charge dropped the ball should fuck right off.

[hammerva]

I give Dark Side of the Ring credit for not showing any of the Instagram Live footage.  I am sure it is available and I am sure there are tons of people in wrestling media who would have shown it.  And they didn't show any of it.  Not even a screen capture.   You didn't need to to make the point

and while I know this will come off as me just shitting on current wrestling,  if Daffney was constantly struggling with his mind, body, and soul I can only imagine how awful it would have been for her given how a good half of current social media and regular media is now.   

[Curt McGirt]

2 minutes ago, hammerva said:

I can only imagine how awful it would have been for her given how a good half of current social media and regular media is now.   

It seemed like she was already getting that, with the video where she was talking about the bullying from her weight gain (which BTW, she looked just as good with the weight gain still). But worse? Probably. 

It was indeed a 90 minute episode. After the first 15 minutes, which seemed really long and detailed, I wondered if they had enough material for the rest, and they sure as hell did. There was A LOT of stuff I didn't know about in this one. I didn't even remember how she died. 

Not to get political, but the action figure settlement reminds me of a story a friend of mine told the other day. She had to go in for an annual breast exam and found out she's gonna have to have them every six months for the rest of her life. Since they're trying to trash Medicaid, she asked her doctor what to do and he said "get a second job". She's a single mother. I would have probably cursed the guy out and walked after he told me that. Daff's case, I would have taken maybe 75% for the cons, set the rest on fire and filmed it for the internet. 

[SirSmUgly]

Poor Daffney. Not that it's any of my business, but I suspect that she was bipolar one rather than two. I feel for her also being conflicted over family, friends, and partners trying to take care of her and not knowing what to do sometimes. And of course, I feel for her family trying to do the best they could to help someone they love. 

The last thing I'll say about this is that social media is a net-negative. Not just for the people who are shitty to other human beings because they're safe behind a screen, but also that Daffney was able to log her deteriorating mental and physical health for everyone to see when no one needed to see it who wasn't in her inner circle. 

I felt literal physical pain while watching Daffney be in pain after that lunatic fucking table spot in TNA. Actually, watching Daffney get destroyed by dangerous spots in TNA in general was fucking terrible. 

On a lighter note because I need a bit of levity after watching that episode, I think Daffney's Sarah Palin impression is an indicator of her talent and past experience as an actor because it was much better than the typical wrestling impression. It was about eighty percent as good as Tina Fey's Sarah Palin impression, which means that it was pretty great! 

 

[Cobra Commander]

missed the first 10 minutes of this episode, but watching the part on the Hassan intro vignettes and how he was on TV... it's possible the 2005 WWE ages worse than 1998 WWF did, and not just because one of the wrestlers murdered his family a few years later. Or they had to be told not to call Kenzo Suzuki "Hirohito". Or all the stuff that got Vince to sign NDAs.

Even if you ignore the part where Hassan was played by an Italian dude. Would it have been more or less offensive if they just did a John Walker Lindh/Krusher Khrushchev and just had Gomer Pyle from Full Metal Jacket dude doing a convert/revert gimmick.

But as someone who remembers post-9/11, the concept was obviously hitting a hot topic. But a certain amount of the heat they mentioned in public could have very much been from people completely unaware of wrestling (aside from the Muslims in a bar(?)/club in Australia that were pissed at them). Do you think they asked actual Arab wrestlers about doing this gimmick and they didn't understand why someone like Sabu wouldn't take the Muhammad Hassan gimmick (yeah I know Sabu was in TNA at that time...)... I could see Vince being really fucking oblivious about how people were feeling at this time and they clearly couldn't write this gimmick in a way that lived up to the vignettes or didn't swing dramatically into being an old school villain

oh man, the story with Hassan/Eddie and the camel clutch

there's a lot of "This Fuckin Company" to this story... like I forget how much I was really watching this in 2005 and I think I always watched more Raw than Smackdown. Like the stuff with Ivory suggesting that Muhammad Hassan would hijack a plane and shit (oh yeah, it also involved Todd Grisham, whose ex-wife is now more famous than him because she was a White House Press Secretary recently)

and as the year goes on, they pivot the character from "Arab who feels persecuted" to "Terrorist".. like this gimmick was gonna get fucked eventually even without 7/7 because 2005 was also a bad year in Iraq, like holy fuck, they put this guy with a bunch of dudes who looked like they were beheading people in Iraq, there wasn't really a way for this to end naturally

man, the graphics on the disclaimer were really fucking low-tech

but he was a terrorist in a three piece suit, so it's not totally racist, right pal... he's just doing the gimmick of the people that Vince did business with in Saudi Arabia a decade later

like holy fucking shit, the dudes in skimasks who were his fucking goons, what the fuck was this company thinking was going to happen

some fan really paying attention to the news by referencing Uday/Qusay Hussein two years after they were killed

Undertaker killed dudes in back to back years at the Great American Bash after he did Paul Bearer the year before

At least post-wrestling Marc Copani got a pretty cool solid job even with the period of depression after his time in the WWE

The Camel Clutch has been reused for foreign heels way too much in the last 20 years too.

I don't think we're getting a Muhammad Hassan video on the WWE Vault

EDIT: watching the first 10 minutes and boy... that OVW footage of them doing the Muhammad Hassan gimmick... Cornette booking Hassan is like if a musician felt their label wanted more guitar solos and they decided to just make an entire album of guitar solos

Edited May 28, 2025 by Cobra Commander

[odessasteps]

The 2000s is still not that far removed from Italians playing Natives. And it was a few years later when you had the Avatar casting controversy. Heck, even in the mid 1980s, Joel Grey got an Oscar nomination for playing an Asian character. 
 

of course, in the 2020s, you get protests if you cast an Asian actor to play an Asian character, but they’re not the “correct nationality”, casting a Japanese actor to play a Chinese character and so on. 

[Cobra Commander]

in 2008/09, TNA had Cheerleader Melissa as Rashida Saeed but that also TNA in 2008/09 and also some of the temperature on all that was lower than it was at the end of 2004/05.. and it was also the TNA knockouts division so it wasn't going to become the main thing in the promotion

meanwhile, they sorta glossed over how quickly Daivari returned while noting he's with the company to this day. Daivari was back on WWE TV by November 2005.

If Daivari was as big as Hassan, they probably would have just let him do all that instead of having him be the small dude who hangs out with Hassan and speaks Farsi (which crowds would think is Arabic)..

[hammerva]

I just wonder if Ivory joke on the Sunday Night Heat before his debut basically saying "I know I won't be flying if you know what I mean" while doing it IN NEW YORK CITY something that Vince wanted or just a bad joke that fucked up a gimmick before it had any chance.   I am not saying that Hassan had any chance of having any sympathy in 2003 given how we were still in that "We put a foot in your ass" Toby Keith mode that really didn't stop until around 2006 when people started realizing that this war was shady on both sides.

I would like to think that wrestling fans will watch this and realize that man we were so dumb back then but look who our current president is. 

[Cobra Commander]

Yeah I don’t know how much attention Vince was paying to Sunday Night Heat in 2004