The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries

[Curt McGirt]

That's presuming it was really Gorilla writing it, is what I thought. 

That Backlund clip where he talked about being a good climber was hilariously bad. I hope they tried to get him to talk about Billy a little. He doesn't seem the type that would want to break kayfabe or even talk in front of the camera though. 

Vince Sr. really was stubborn to throw all that money away. Just turn Billy! It wouldn't have been hard! Heat up a heel, have him do something dastardly, Billy to the rescue, boom you can change your plans and Howdy Doody gets to wait his turn. 

[Cobra Commander]

Monsoon also refused to retract his article like he’s Edward R. “Gorilla” Monsoon.

But yeah if they put off the change or turned Graham, that sets a precedent and who’s to say Graham wouldn’t have tried to stall a title change again if you listened to him the first time. In the world of territories, there’s only so long Backlund could hang around before his stock peaks there and he has to leave and then we’re talking about 1979 Ted DiBiase as a WWWF title contender to beat the transitional champ after SBG

Also, I sense the Eddie Gilbert episode is gonna have a few people who are very very favorable to Eddie even if some of his flaws are obvious. Someone like Cornette might have a slightly different view as someone who was a peer to Eddie but also someone who tried to employ Eddie in 1995

[Curt McGirt]

Good point about the precedent. It's not really stubbornness from that point of view, it's more like promoter control as the issue. All the same I wonder how long Graham was still around because they make it seem like once he lost the belt he just quit and turned hermit in the Arizona desert. He could have stayed on top feuding with Backlund for a good long while and they could have continued to make that beaucoup money he drew. 

[Cobra Commander]

if you're a VJM, Graham just disappearing for a few years post-title probably vindicates your POV a little even if the switch factored into it.. like "what if he had that medical event while working for me during an extended run"

then a few years later, Snuka became a challenger to Backlund for popularity, only for it to become obvious that Snuka was undependable for a few reasons

[ka-to]

33 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

if you're a VJM, Graham just disappearing for a few years post-title probably vindicates your POV a little even if the switch factored into it.. like "what if he had that medical event while working for me during an extended run"

then a few years later, Snuka became a challenger to Backlund for popularity, only for it to become obvious that Snuka was undependable for a few reasons

I went to MSG to see a title match with George Steele, who showed up out of nowhere, and Backlund beat him in a minute with a roll up. We were sure that it was going to be a title change to get the belt to Snuka.

[hammerva]

I don't know if they are showed the finish of Backlund vs Superstar Graham on local TV but was there any mention of the fact that Superstar's leg was on the bottom rope.   

[Cobra Commander]

I think there was an entire brand of finishes that would show up in the WWWF where occasionally the heel loses due to a missed call but people wouldn't feel sympathy for them since they had worked outside the rules before

and while I don't know if DSOTR mentioned the finish... i'm pretty confident that the Wizard and Superstar alluded to it in promos for years afterwards

[Curt McGirt]

I know it happened elsewhere like Bockwinkle with Heenan, but putting a talking manager with as good a talker as Superstar is kinda weird.

[SirSmUgly]

Graham is in that Benoit, Snuka, Borga, Bourne tier of guys who I couldn't muster up any sympathy for at all from this show. Completely unlikeable and shitty human being. 

He was right about not putting the title on Backlund while he was so hot, though, and I do like Backlund. 

Also, Backlund was a terrible promo until his heel run in the mid-'90s, IMO, which isn't the craziest thing to think, right?

[ka-to]

2 hours ago, hammerva said:

I don't know if they are showed the finish of Backlund vs Superstar Graham on local TV but was there any mention of the fact that Superstar's leg was on the bottom rope.   

Yes it was mentioned along with mentioning that Graham beat Bruno with his feet on the ropes.

[Mister TV]

22 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Good point about the precedent. It's not really stubbornness from that point of view, it's more like promoter control as the issue. All the same I wonder how long Graham was still around because they make it seem like once he lost the belt he just quit and turned hermit in the Arizona desert. He could have stayed on top feuding with Backlund for a good long while and they could have continued to make that beaucoup money he drew. 

Graham dropped the belt in February 1978 and still worked a normal schedule in the WWWF with return matches with Backlund until December, during that time he also worked as a special attraction in Atlanta, Tampa and Toronto, just like he did as champ. In 1979 & 1980 he worked a lighter schedule in places like Japan, Memphis, Houston, & Amarillo, he pretty much takes 1981 off and starts back up in 1982 with Japan tours then the return to the WWF in August. The whole "he totally disappeared" take isn't that true.

[twiztor]

23 hours ago, SirSmUgly said:

Also, Backlund was a terrible promo until his heel run in the mid-'90s, IMO, which isn't the craziest thing to think, right?

Backlund shows up in 2007 TNA and is pretty awful all around. His character is a more deranged version of his 90s guy, and he just yells a lot. He also seems to trip over his words more than would be preferable. I'm thinking the '90s run is an outlier.

[Elsalvajeloco]

3 hours ago, twiztor said:

Backlund shows up in 2007 TNA and is pretty awful all around. His character is a more deranged version of his 90s guy, and he just yells a lot. He also seems to trip over his words more than would be preferable. I'm thinking the '90s run is an outlier.

The Backlund run in the 90s: The happy-go-lucky stuff was okay but it didn't really resonate in an ironic way it was probably suppose to. He turns heel, and it works to a degree until the Diesel title change. Then it's a rapid decline from there. Like sharp. How he survived the 1995 roster culling towards the end of the year, I do not know. He has a match (probably his last as a full time active wrestler) with Savio on WWF Superstars in late 95 that is probably one of the worst in modern history. I am assuming that when both guys walked back through the curtains after the match, they probably thought they were gonna get their walking papers right then and there. Either that or Vince and the creative room at the time probably had a closed door conversation about phasing Bob out. Mind you, that's after he has a pretty damn good tag match with Owen against Bret and Davey Boy on Action Zone early in 1995. I am assuming between then, Bob just lost all confidence as there was no clear endgame on what he was suppose to do. Also, losing his title in like ten seconds off TV made it seem like he was just a mid carder and getting the title was just an angle to advance the Bret/Owen storyline. The WrestleMania I Quit match w/ Bret was terrible, but some of that can be contributed to Piper's incessant butting in asking the competitors if they quit even when it doesn't call for the ref to step in.

In short, that run probably should have been a year and some change tops. However, it definitely overstayed its welcome. 

[Curt McGirt]

Bret said the Crossface Chickenwing legit hurt too. You probably don't want to keep someone floating around the top who's hurting and could possibly injure your top talent. 

[The Natural]

11 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Bret said the Crossface Chickenwing legit hurt too. You probably don't want to keep someone floating around the top who's hurting and could possibly injure your top talent. 

Yeah, it's a legit painful hold.

[zendragon]

Kinda interesting to think of an alternate history where Vince Jr gets his pops to turn SBG face (which VKM apparently wanted to do) and if his body holds up he has his Hogan before Hogan

[hammerva]

Not sure if it is posted anywhere else but on the Dark Side of the Ring Unheard podcast about a week ago, the mystery of "fake Sammy Hagar" from around 85/86 at Madison Square Gardens was mostly solved

The Mystery of the "Fake Sammy Hagar" | Dark Side of the Ring: Unheard [Season 2, Ep 2]

 

[ka-to]

On 4/24/2025 at 5:56 PM, Curt McGirt said:

Bret said the Crossface Chickenwing legit hurt too. You probably don't want to keep someone floating around the top who's hurting and could possibly injure your top talent. 

I met Backlund when he did an appearance when he had his crazier than wrestling run for political office. He was a nice guy taking pictures with everyone. He put the kids in headlocks for photos. He stiffed me in the crossface chickenwing and still acting as a nice guy told me that I was flexible while doing it. 

[Cobra Commander]

next up, the mystery of the white guy who told me that he wrote "Gotta Be" by Desree on a flight from Houston to Austin in 1995

Jim Neidhart thinking the fake Sammy Hagar didn't wear a good enough watch to be Sammy Hagar is some amazing investigative reporting too

Edited April 28, 2025 by Cobra Commander

[zendragon]

I've been listening to some of the podcasts. Interesting story from Lanny Poffo where he was supposed to go to LA and work on top vs Chavo and Angelo had him come home and work in ICW. Kinda interesting to think what could have happened if Lanny had a main event singles run, could that have launched him into being a bigger star in his own right instead of riding his brothers coattails? 

[hammerva]

7 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

next up, the mystery of the white guy who told me that he wrote "Gotta Be" by Desree on a flight from Houston to Austin in 1995

Jim Neidhart thinking the fake Sammy Hagar didn't wear a good enough watch to be Sammy Hagar is some amazing investigative reporting too

And then deciding that he had to be Sammy Hagar given his ability to snort a line of coke with Adrian Adonis 

[WebConn89]

Ok after watching The Billy Graham episode  I have a what if. What if when Graham had the seizure on his road trip back to Arizona, and went to rehab if it stuck and he was sober and got off the roids in 78 went back to Arizona ran the landscaping business found a karate dojo actually learned Karate and then in 82 came back sober, with a new style and a natural build? Would it have worked? 

[twiztor]

36 minutes ago, WebConn89 said:

Ok after watching The Billy Graham episode  I have a what if. What if when Graham had the seizure on his road trip back to Arizona, and went to rehab if it stuck and he was sober and got off the roids in 78 went back to Arizona ran the landscaping business found a karate dojo actually learned Karate and then in 82 came back sober, with a new style and a natural build? Would it have worked? 

the '70s were ripe for a Karate gimmick. But he's really going to need a mullet as well.

[Cobra Commander]

Superstar really gave up on hair much quicker than all the other balding dudes who were doing Superstar tribute gimmicks

although I could see Hogan talking about how shaving his hair off would have doomed him as a face and the combo of balding hair and the black beard in WCW made heel Hogan look really scuzzy so that was perfect

[Curt McGirt]

On 4/28/2025 at 11:35 AM, WebConn89 said:

Ok after watching The Billy Graham episode  I have a what if. What if when Graham had the seizure on his road trip back to Arizona, and went to rehab if it stuck and he was sober and got off the roids in 78 went back to Arizona ran the landscaping business found a karate dojo actually learned Karate and then in 82 came back sober, with a new style and a natural build? Would it have worked? 

Realistically, Superstar would have probably made an awesome manager if he'd ever wanted to. The gift of gab was always there. His body wouldn't have held up as an in-ring performer, or as a bumping manager (Heenan, Race, etc.) probably just from the early roid usage alone. This all depends on whether he could handle taking a secondary role though. Maybe his family was right and he should have just went into the ministry, but the pro-wrestling kind of ministry.