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The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries


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8 minutes ago, Robert s said:

Scorpio claimed that he made a shiv out of two chopsticks and planned to stab Hawk with them and only did not do it, because Benoit talked him down. Furthermore, he claimed that he confronted Hawk at the banquet at the last night (with the shiv ready to be used) and Hawk was all "sorry, I am just going crazy after a week without roids, drugs and alcohol".

LOL, Scorp and Hawk are both crazy, but yeah, I'mma need confirmation on this from someone other than Scorp, and I'll never get that. 

I need to get caught up on this show because I want to compare what the folks who were on this episode said in comparison to what everyone said in that SI oral history. 

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I think the confirmation that Scorp got the better end of the bus fight was Scott Norton begrudgingly saying that Hawk was on medication and a healthy Hawk would have killed him. Most of the details I take with a grain of salt with the one sided point of view. No Hawk, no Benoit, Bischoff was unaware, Norton seemed uncomfortable talking about it, only Scorpio. 

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The Hawk-Scorpio story more or less lined up with versions of the story I've heard before.  Scorp was probably embellishing a bit, but nothing substantial.  Lol, Scorp seems like the pro wrestlingliest pro wrestler out there.  Meaning, if his mouth is moving, I'll just assume he's lying exaggerating.  If Scorp came out and told me the sun comes up every morning and I was a carbon-based life form. I'd need to hear it from a scientist, geneticist, and my family physician before I took him at his word.  

Going to be disappointed it tonight's Warrior documentary makes him sound even a little bit sane.

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Well, they did get his wife to talk, so I'm sure she'll have a more positive POV. Unless she considers him crazy too.

I don't buy the chopsticks thing from Scorp but who knows. He seemed more honest or working less in the shoots I posted in this thread before. Youd think he'd talk more about Ali. Also nobody related the story about how Ali piped up "No wonder we hate these motherfuckers" in the middle of a propaganda speech, which was in Flair's book and I think the SI article.

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2 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Oh and Hawk was a well known bar bouncer before wrestling so I buy that if he wasn't fucked up it would at least be a fair fight.

Fighting a drunk is a lot different from fighting someone who’s sober and has some fighting skills. 

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I was impressed that Scott Norton looked healthy and sounded like a reasonable person.  And he looked basically the same as he did 20+ years ago.  IIRC, he's about sixty now.

Scorpio looked like a character from a Dave Chappelle skit.  'Nuff said.

Honestly, I though the episode was alright, but it was one of the least interesting accounts of that trip.  I was more interested in the episode of Bischoff's podcast that covered the event.  Flair had some interesting stories about the trip in his book.  The story of the event is weird and fascinating, with more than a little historical significance.  I mean, you have Inoki and Ali involved and yet you give 1/3 of a 60 min episode to Scorpio telling stories about plotting to kill a guy over a nonsense beef with Ric Flair (that was probably all in Scorpio's mind to begin with)?  Not the way i would have gone.

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only a few days left until the Vice contribution to Ultimate Warrior documentary week!

For all the walking back going on in the A&E documentary, there's probably a more than 50% chance that if the Warrior were alive today, he would have gotten banned from Twitter for his tweets about trafficking conspiracies or COVID-19

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49 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

How many people who participated in the SI oral history were not in the episode? 

Orville Schell, Ric Flair and the Steiner Bros. I'm pretty sure Meltzer isn't in the episode too.

Edited by Casey
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11 hours ago, Eoae said:

yet you give 1/3 of a 60 min episode to Scorpio telling stories about plotting to kill a guy over a nonsense beef with Ric Flair (that was probably all in Scorpio's mind to begin with)?  Not the way i would have gone.

Absolutely!  That Scorpio narrative felt really contrived, like Vice was stretching to have something juicy to hang the whole show on, almost like they felt like they didn't have enough content to fill out a show or didn't believe what they had was strong enough.  So they took a lazy tale of two wrestlers fighting, broke it into three escalating parts, and then built the rest of the show around it.  You can close your eyes and see the outline of the show written on a dry erase board at the production company.  The part about Rikidozan being killed "because he was Korean" was some straight up bullshit as well.

I'm really torn on this series now.  Is it supposed to be a documentary?  Then do some research and don't pass on easily-debunked lies.  Is it supposed to be "Sleaze Thread: The Series," where we're supposed to just sit back, be entertained, and not let the truth get in the way of a good story? 

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Just watched the Korea episode last night, and I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who thought the Scorpio/Hawk story was a weird thing to focus so much of the episode on, given that there is apparently no one left alive who can credibly corroborate the more sordid details.  Definitley felt like they were struggling to fill out a thin episode.

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1 hour ago, odessasteps said:

Is this when I discuss the whole fallacy about documentaries are truth thing? ?

two docs about the same person that will likely be very different will be a great illustration of that. 

Oh, for sure.  But god damn.  It's one thing to understand that different people will have different versions of a story, and that the creator of the "documentary" will have their own narrative.  It's something else to parrot the narrative of the NK government for a story that's so easily debunked. 

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2 hours ago, EVA said:

Just watched the Korea episode last night, and I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who thought the Scorpio/Hawk story was a weird thing to focus so much of the episode on, given that there is apparently no one left alive who can credibly corroborate the more sordid details.  Definitley felt like they were struggling to fill out a thin episode.

This episode needed Flair.

Having just watched it, I would guess that Scorpio's Hawk story is probably generally true - Hawk was a notoriously miserable pillhead, after all. 

Other than hearing from Inoki, I don't really think this episode needed to exist with the SI oral history out there already about it, but it's cool for people who didn't know about this. 

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Looking at the upcoming episode list and their subjects, how the hell did I not know that Johnny K-9/Bruiser Bedlam was Taras Bulba?

Trying to find out who the stand-ins for the wrestlers in the episode were led me to a fruitless check of imdb, where I was led to two realizations:

  1. imdb got a horrible redesign.  It's shit
  2. Bix is listed as a researcher on the series
Edited by Technico Support
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OK, just seen the Gage episode, and fuck Nick Gage, but I'm glad that this episode rehabilitated David Arquette a bit. Not that he needed rehabilitation in any serious way, but he certainly didn't deserve hatred because late-era WCW was a booking disaster. 

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Eric Bischoff has an entire chapter in his book about the North Korea Trip, that and Flairs account in his book made me excited for this episode but I think Vice focused too much on the fight between Scorp and Hawk. They should have told the Ali story. They should have focused on how weird it was over there and they didn't talk about he actual wrestling events all that much. 

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I would've liked to have heard from the Steiner Bros. about the trip. I guess they weren't available. 

They were shooting and working on a lot of this at the height of the pandemic. So I can forgive the lack of certain talking heads for some of the stories. Getting Inoki on there was pretty interesting. 

However, Dave Meltzer presented that the whole story about Yakuza murdering Rikidozan because he was actually Korean was not true.

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A&E biography of the Warrior was mostly a puff piece.  Way too adoring.

Highlight (lowlight?) for me was outtakes from the Warrior's apology after he snapped and bitched out a little kid in an airport. Vince made Warrior tape an apology, but they did it with Hellwig fully in character so it comes off as insincere and a bit ridiculous.

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55 minutes ago, Eoae said:

Highlight (lowlight?) for me was outtakes from the Warrior's apology after he snapped and bitched out a little kid in an airport. Vince made Warrior tape an apology, but they did it with Hellwig fully in character so it comes off as insincere and a bit ridiculous.

Yeah, this was pretty funny...

 

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I posted this in the Podcasts thread but I think it's also appropriate to post it hear as they do talk about the Dark Side episode but here's Days of Thunder and Strong Style History's joint podcast on the Collision in Korea event.

 

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I was underwhelmed by both Nick Gage and Collision in Korea.

Here's a NSFW preview of Becoming Warrior. Looking forward to this one. What a nasty piece of work the Warrior was.

Another preview:

 

Edited by The Natural
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