Thibs Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, Hagan said: As a general statement - if someone has posted more than one of these takes the last few years it might be time to retire from the analysis game regarding this new company. - the Bullet Club was fizzling out and was a dying fad that was killing New Japan and ROH business - that there was no way that they’d book a produce show - that there was no way they’d sell out - that it was just scalpers and the building would be half-full - that the show would suck anyway. At some point this becomes Skip Bayless-esque goalpost moving. Looking forward to the ‘well, Nitro got higher ratings than these guys’ takes in a few years. Meltzer says a TV deal is gonna happen; they just signed like 16 performers in six days. This is pretty fucking real. Also, can we ban ‘money mark’ as a phrase? Anytime I read that I just hear Vince Russo’s voice. oh, Tony Khan WAS Fat Spanish Waiter, right? That’s all true. Do you think they can translate what they’ve done so far to a weekly show that commands viewership? Who do they have creative-wise that can do that? I’m definitely hopeful. But they’re gonna have to recognize that pleasing a network isn’t the same thing as pleasing hardcore wrestling fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Tromatagon said: @Roberthad a pretty good idea on twitter about going to the press about a company that did shows barring you from participating based on your gender or religion and making things super messy if you wanted out of your contract. That wouldn't work for everyone though A rare case where being a minority in the WWE would work to your advantage! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Thibs said: That’s all true. Do you think they can translate what they’ve done so far to a weekly show that commands viewership? Who do they have creative-wise that can do that? I’m definitely hopeful. But they’re gonna have to recognize that pleasing a network isn’t the same thing as pleasing hardcore wrestling fans. To answer your questions: 1. Yes, not hard to do a weekly one-hour show that's compelling. 2. They have Jericho and Dustin Rhodes, two of the smartest creative guys in the business with something like five decades experience between them in what works and what doesn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagan Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I think a show anchored by Kenny Omega and Chris Jericho with this level of promotion and money behind it has a chance to attract eyeballs. Of course, a lot depends on what the network they’re on expect. This is the content era now. We all shit ourselves at that Smackdown deal. I think there’s a very real chance they get a favorable deal. And then you do your two or three year build and try to gain a foothold in the market. I think the idea that thing is dead in a year is naive. None of these people seem dumb, especially the Khans. Now, I’m not overly optimistic that these guys are going to be good bookers. But who knows who ends up working in the office. Another thing that does help them is that it seems they have like 80 percent of the wrestling media rooting for them and I imagine mainstream press will be interested in this, especially with the unique stories of Cody and the Bucks. Oh, quick segue into questions: - are these guys gonna be on ice until May because that’s a whole lotta downtime? Is BTE just gonna be all them on their couches? - nothing for Mania weekend? I really dont think the ROH/NJPW alliance is as done as people think. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 42 minutes ago, RIPPA said: - Cody's comment about "wins and losses" was done as they would like to try to market the promotion as close to "sports" as possible I'm well late on this but I have to: I kind of agree with most everybody here except for the most skeptical. The production wasn't what it should be for a launching point but it's not that big of a deal. They will need to come with a more professional look for Double or Nothing than All In had and certainly this had. Hopefully they have people from whichever TV station they sign with to help them on that front. You can have the best wrestlers in the world but if your product is presented like shit, it's going to hurt perception very quickly. On the other hand, PAC and Jericho are huuuuge gets, particularly the latter, and now it seems like they'll have Kenny on board soon enough too. You'd think this would force NJPW's hand, as Meltzer suggested this morning, in addition to the idea that Okada is going to want to do the bigger AEW shows too. This is turning out to be pretty good. Pretty... pretty... pretty good. They need to get Tessa and the Stardom women. Too bad about missing out on Viper but I prefer Kay Lee Ray anyway. The contract stuff I definitely feel like they're saying the right things but only time will tell how it works out in reality. It's pretty shit of Cody to boast about wrestlers' rights if only he and the Bucks and the top, top guys get benefits. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Wait...Goldust signed with AEW? I mean I want this to succeed, and it seems they have better backers than Dixie Carter and Panda Energy. But the type of TV deal they have is key to this working IMO. At the same time, some items are being said about this that are red flags IMO. Then again, if this doesn't work long-term, I bet all these guys would still be welcome with open arms elsewhere. It's not like they held up ROH or NJPW for money or acted unprofessionally. After All In, I figured they could just do like an annual All In event that sort of combines all that Being the Elite soap opera stuff and showcasing multiple indie promotions together. Not sure if the optics are right for a new major promotion to come up and do well, but we shall see. The top guy stuff is very suspect IMO. What determines what makes someone a top guy and worthy of benefits? What do you have to do to break that threshold? Just the reason I find it suspect is because plenty of fight promoters have made similar claims and still tried to fuck guys over. Case in point, Bjorn Rebney with Eddie Alvarez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 They need to address the tv format, we already know how they do the social media and ppvs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thibs Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, OSJ said: To answer your questions: 1. Yes, not hard to do a weekly one-hour show that's compelling. 2. They have Jericho and Dustin Rhodes, two of the smartest creative guys in the business with something like five decades experience between them in what works and what doesn't. 1. Well, idk how hard it is but not a lot of companies seem to be good at. 2. Dustin signed? Didn’t see that. Regardless, I’ve yet to see what Jericho has to offer in terms of producing a must see weekly show. But I’m cautiously optimistic as he was right there when Nitro blew up. Regardless, I think they’re gonna need to have some TV people involved. This thing needs to have that Nitro feel where you feel like if you don’t tune in you’re gonna miss something important. To Hagen’s point about them having good will. Wait until they do that gun violence benefit show. That’s gonna get them a ton of good mainstream buzz. Wouldn’t be shocked to see them do some stuff with the March For Our Lives group. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Yeah I don't think he has. I think he meant Cody Rhodes. I've seen no evidence Dustin is going to be part of AEW. I think Goldust would rather keep his limited spot in WWE and hopefully get some sort of legends deal and Hall of Fame spot later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, D.Z said: They need to address the tv format, we already know how they do the social media and ppvs. All In looked pretty good for the most part but there were a handful of bad production errors that Dunne would've gotten slaughtered for had he been guilty of the same crimes. The hype videos and music will need to be upgraded from Nick dicking around on his iPhone and laptop to professional grade stuff done by professionals as well as upgrading on the Jacksons' dad doing music out of his garage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thibs Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Oyaji said: All In looked pretty good for the most part but there were a handful of bad production errors that Dunne would've gotten slaughtered for had he been guilty of the same crimes. The hype videos and music will need to be upgraded from Nick dicking around on his iPhone and laptop to professional grade stuff done by professionals as well as upgrading on the Jacksons' dad doing music out of his garage. I think he may have meant the writing and putting together of the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 You are probably correct. Derp. to make amends. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Since NJPW is working with Ring of Honor, I hope with them getting Pac, I hope AEW brings more Dragon Gate talent in. This is amazing that All Elite is more of a theater to WWE than TNA ever was. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 51 minutes ago, Hagan said: I think a show anchored by Kenny Omega and Chris Jericho with this level of promotion and money behind it has a chance to attract eyeballs. Of course, a lot depends on what the network they’re on expect. This is the content era now. We all shit ourselves at that Smackdown deal. I think there’s a very real chance they get a favorable deal. And then you do your two or three year build and try to gain a foothold in the market. I think the idea that thing is dead in a year is naive. None of these people seem dumb, especially the Khans. Now, I’m not overly optimistic that these guys are going to be good bookers. But who knows who ends up working in the office. Another thing that does help them is that it seems they have like 80 percent of the wrestling media rooting for them and I imagine mainstream press will be interested in this, especially with the unique stories of Cody and the Bucks. Oh, quick segue into questions: - are these guys gonna be on ice until May because that’s a whole lotta downtime? Is BTE just gonna be all them on their couches? - nothing for Mania weekend? I really dont think the ROH/NJPW alliance is as done as people think. This is clearly the most level headed assessment I've seen. I get the reservations especially considering that depending on how these next few weeks or months shake out, they've turned former allies into direct competitors (which of course comes with the territory as your own separate actualized entity). That and you've started a promotion with friends and we've seen the inner workings of its birth. So basically, a well funded vanity project. However, I think it's a bit silly to judge a company that hasn't technically ran its first show yet by the criteria of promotions that been around for decades (in the case of Impact and ROH, just shy of two decades). I was listening to the Cornette Experience and it was Cornette who had the most nuanced opinion about it (granted he loves Cody and that negates a lot of his hate for the Bucks) and it sounded like a promoter who knows there are plenty of different things that go into this so you can't entirely write it off or start a circle jerk immediately. Compare that to Brian Last, who is so anti-WWE and anti-everybody now that it makes it seem like AEW is the only opportunity for anyone to create a WWE alternative so it has to be perfect and fit his particular vision of dead serious pro wrestling. You can't say you want it to work sincerely when you have fiery intensity in your vitriol the other way. That's why I don't buy AEW being an either/or situation between cartoony dick spot wrestling or so called sports based wrestling. I don't know how it's going to be booked, but I'm pretty sure the braintrust understands the promotion cannot be just one thing. In addition, like Hagan pretty much said, at 100 million dollars invested you're playing the long game. Even with historically bad ratings, it would take them several years to catch up with WWE because they have fans that will watch regardless of the product. I don't care if they (AEW) tore down the house every other card, and they got the best TV partner imaginable. They have a chance to see where they're fucking up and make the necessary changes, and perhaps, they would be very open to that versus (from what I understand) WWE which goes into troll mode frequently. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 The moustache is in the house. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorman Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said: What Oscar did was the opposite of when he was involved with Affliction. With Affliction, they signed all those dudes and paid them ridiculous money and only lasted two shows. Golden Boy MMA doesn't have a prayer either, but he promised fair pay and signed absolutely nobody of note outside the two people in the main event. He could lowball Tom Lawlor because Lawlor is more interested in pro wrestling than MMA and nobody wanted to sign him in MMA. When Bare Knuckle FC and all these strange money mark operations are your only viable options, they could pay you virtually anything and get away with it. Based on the market and lack of demand for his services, Lawlor DID get paid "fairly". That's the whole problem with free agency. It's the goddamn wild, wild west and been that way for several years in MMA. So how did we miss Lawlor for the Moosin PPV? Hey, at least we lasted half as long as Affliction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Shad Khan's mustache is fucking fabulous. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, Oyaji said: The moustache is in the house. Boxing ref, tennis official, golfer... What won’t Mario do? 4 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Gorman said: So how did we miss Lawlor for the Moosin PPV? Hey, at least we lasted half as long as Affliction. Stipe Miocic was in the very first fight of the night, and I just realized that when I was looking up that card for whatever reason last summer. Also, the fact Travis Wiuff was a part of Moosin and YAMMA Pit Fighting says a lot about that era of MMA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChesterCopperpot Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I knew I recognized Khan from somewhere 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 So I'm guessing they'll have Billy Gunn, Chris Daniels, and BJ Whitmer as the backstage agents. Here's an OWE highlight video from last summer, BTW: I'm kinda hoping we get CIMA -v- Jericho at some point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 9, 2019 Author Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ace said: So I'm guessing they'll have Billy Gunn, Chris Daniels, and BJ Whitmer as the backstage agents. Which gives you a pretty interesting spread of styles. Billy being a mainstream promotion guy through and through, BJ an independent guy, and Daniels having been a guy who went back and forth. (I'm counting like 06 until at least 2012 TNA as "mainstream" and I think that's fair.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 And Daniels has been agenting and showrunning since 2000 or so at the latest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thibs Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I like that they seem to be staggering these announcements as a way to build anticipation. You gotta believe that Omega will be the next dominoe to fall. You have the Goldberg rumors. The TV stuff. It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out as they head into Double or Nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 They can't announce Omega until the end of the month. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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