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RIC FLAIR 30 FOR 30


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13 hours ago, Keep Calm, Akira Hokuto On said:

I agree, but I also get the feeling that Ric and I have very different ideas of what casts him in a negative light.  Like Zakk said, I don't expect to hear a whole lot that I haven't heard before, or at least suspected.  It's more that I expect the doc to reinforce my impression of Ric, which I've revised fairly recently.  I've always been a big fan of Ric's - and especially the Horsemen - but Ric himself has worn thin with me.  Years ago, when I was younger and just started hearing about Ric's exploits via the Internet and the Observer, the idea of Ric living the hard-partying, limousine-riding Space Mountain lifestyle 24/7 seemed kinda impressive to me.  I guess I sort of romanticized it.  Now, in my late 40's with two grown kids and a 25-year marriage, the idea of Ric as some sort of Peter Pan figure who didn't grow up and still lives the lifestyle even though it probably was hell on his ex-wives, kids, friends, finances, etc. seems kinda pitiful to me.

If hard-partying cocaine binges, sleeping with a lot of women, and throwing a lot of cash around had been an option at 28, I would probably have gone for it.  At 48, I'm kinda glad that was never really a long-term option for me, because my life would have turned out terribly.

 

Film will repeat on ESPN2 at 2 AM Wednesday morning and probably be shown several times over the next month or so.  It most likely will be available online and On Demand pretty quickly.  That's their usual pattern.

I am really intrigued to hear what his first wife has to say - although I can take a rough guess.  I think this is the first time she's ever spoken publicly about Ric.

Kinda goes with the territory Flair lived the rockstar life and he knows he paid for it.  I always figured Flair would go out like a John Entwhistle of The Who.  In a hotel room somewhere with a hooker and a pile of cocaine.

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Alright, now I'm pissed. I turn on ESPN2 and there's some hick with a football giving life lessons. Fuck that shit, I want to see my insane wrestling god's insane life detailed at 2 Central now goddammit! If you advertise it, play it. If it isn't on after this thing is over I'll... well, I'll just drink more and go to bed, but this is pissing me off.

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Okay, it's on. Just to keep a running track record of this

- The story about Ric coming out with a full hard-on and saying "WOOOO! Sting, can ya handle this?!" to his face after walking out of the bathroom on the plane made my ribs hurt from laughing

- The dichotomy between the two clips of Ric and Hogan both fighting Ronnie Garvin was a nice touch

- David Flair with a beard looks like Big Show

- Vince never wanted Hogan/Flair at Wrestlemania because it would make them too powerful. It's obvious. 

Also obvious are any other prognostications about the doc so all I'll say it was finely made, needs (as mentioned before) a probably four-hour long director's cut but we've already got two other Flair docs for that, and Flair is just Flair. You just gotta throw your hands up... unless you're his friend or family member.

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I was just happy that they delved into Flair's human frailties without making too much of a parody out of him.  I was surprised by how easily Flair talked about some of the more embarrassing aspects of his life so candidly. 

I have a much better opinion of HHH than I had before this documentary aired.

I agree with (BP).  I think this is one of those stories where someone discovers that the thing they love most in life is both blessing and a curse.  The negativity that came along with the lifestyle took its toll on Flair, but he'd do it all over again the same way if he had the choice. 

That's how champions roll.  They can't live any other way. 

To paraphrase Ric's own catchphrase, he was perfectly willing to bleed and sweat and pay the price in order to BE THE MAN~!

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8 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Great documentary. Some real sad stuff in there,  just brutal.  Flair having to settle for being the best ever in wrestling because he's an admitted crappy father and husband.  They definitely didn't hold back..  they told you the full Flair,  the good and focused on a lot of the bad as well.  I liked the Kill Bill animations to go with the stories.  

I'm still confused about why Hogan and Flair didn't happen at WrestleMania.  They both said that basically Vince ran them at house shows and ruined the appeal which isn't the true story obviously. Meltzer reported that the house shows didn't work..  but I still don't get it.  I watched their match from Madison Square Garden.  It looked like a sellout and the crowd was going insane for it.  

So to me the Meltzer simplification of the issue isn't adding up either..  

The idea that Vince needed money in the bank makes the most sense, they thought the house shows would all sell out since it was a dream match but business was on a down cycle and the kids the WWF marketed to needed to be schooled on Flair. The best thing would have been building Flair up like they used to build up heels for Bruno and Backlund, have him go over strong on tv, have him "hurt" one of Hulk's friends, still do the Survivor Series\Tuesday in Texas stuff to vacate the tile and Flair's win at the Rumble then the dream match at WM. Vince looked at the short term since needed cash and there was so much buzz when Flair showed up. I went to Flair - Hogan at the Civic Arena in Pittsburgh and it was 3/4's full which was a great house at the time but I don't think it did good outside of "wrestling" cities like Pittsburgh, New York, Baltimore and so on.

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I enjoyed it, but say what you will about Flair always working - Hogan was so clearly full of shit. I mean, hilariously so, that humble gimmick he was pulling off was hilarious.

I also never thought I'd live in a world where Ric Flair is legitimately more recognizable and famous than Hulk Hogan, but here we are.

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I thought Hunter's comment about never getting to see Flair/Hogan in their prime was weird. Traveling   champion Ric and peak Rock n' Wrestling Hogan would have probably had pretty much the same matches that they had in 94 in the 80s. Like Hulk said, he could never go an hour, and Ric would always have given most of the match to him. None of their matches are that fondly remembered anyway, outside of maybe the WWF house show loop stuff that made tape or the surprisingly good cage match in 99. The chemistry just wasn't there and Flair doesn't seem to think much of it other than probably being pleased with the payoffs. 

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28 minutes ago, bink_winkleman said:

I enjoyed it, but say what you will about Flair always working - Hogan was so clearly full of shit. I mean, hilariously so, that humble gimmick he was pulling off was hilarious.

I also never thought I'd live in a world where Ric Flair is legitimately more recognizable and famous than Hulk Hogan, but here we are.

The part where he mentioned Flair not wanting to leave because of "trickle-down economics" might've been on the nose though. An interesting thing to see come from his lips, too. 

Of course a worker's gonna work and fuck him anyway

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6 hours ago, (BP) said:

I thought Hunter's comment about never getting to see Flair/Hogan in their prime was weird. Traveling   champion Ric and peak Rock n' Wrestling Hogan would have probably had pretty much the same matches that they had in 94 in the 80s. Like Hulk said, he could never go an hour, and Ric would always have given most of the match to him. None of their matches are that fondly remembered anyway, outside of maybe the WWF house show loop stuff that made tape or the surprisingly good cage match in 99. The chemistry just wasn't there and Flair doesn't seem to think much of it other than probably being pleased with the payoffs. 

He was just getting another dig at WCW. Not hard to see through.

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1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:

Whoops, thanx for clearing that up. The hair fooled me. 

Speaking of which: why have I never seen Flair/Garvin?!

Flair/Garvin is a tremendous rivalry.  Their match at Starrcade '87 is the shit.  It's hard hitting,  exhausting,  it's awesome.   People back in the day shit on it because they didn't think Garvin should be in that spot but the matches are awesome.  

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It's kinda heatless, so they compensated by beating the hell out of each other.

Honestly, the Bash '94 Hogan/Flair match is good. Not great, because it was never going to be great while being a straight Hogan formula match, but Hulk wore his working boots.

I think a match in 85 before Hulk's formula became completely calcified might have been really interesting. Some of Hulk's matches from the first couple years he had the belt at fascinating just for being different. Stuff like just up and hitting the leg drop right out of a transition to get the win.

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1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Their match at Starrcade '87 is the shit.

Just watched a horrible quality version of it on Dailymotion. You. Are. RIGHT! The crowd seems really divided, but leaning particularly toward Flair (where was this, in Philly?) and they gave them what they wanted. Just stiff, mean, great selling (Ronnie's sell of the leg was fantastic), but they ditched that psychology and went for big highspots and nearfalls towards the end. It came in at a nice 15 or so minutes too. My only complaint is Ronnie didn't bleed, really. Need to see this not looking like a 4th generation VHS that was put on an MP3 file though.

EDIT: Not Philly, but Chicago, so close enough

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I thought the Hogan/Flair series in '94 was great, especially when you consider Hulk had not had a good match since, probably, the Slaughter series in '91. The Havoc cage match is bonkers too with Flair and Sherri bumping all over the fucking place. Hulk is off the gas and has a little more speed going. 

The booking made me want to eat a bullet but in hindsight it's great stuff. 

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This was a documentary about an addict. I've seen addiction right up close and Flair is a straight up junkie.

This was just sad for me.

I know I mirror some of the sentiments of other posters when I say that, as a 44 year old with two kids and a 23 year marriage, Flair seems like the most selfish, awful creature a person could end up sharing a life with. As a wrestling fan, his run as the last of the great traveling NWA champions is fascinating, but hearing about him skipping out on his kids as children and then enabling them as adults makes me sick. Flair's is also a great cautionary tale. I'm, in my part of the world, relatively "famous."  Top radio dj in the market, comedian who sells out big rooms in the area and occasionally travels out of market for casino gigs, plays in a rock band, mc's everything, even has a stage name. Any level of fame can eat you if you let it. When the question is posed to Flair about "why can't you just hang out in your room, be alone, watch tv," he couldn't answer why. I can tell you when I travel for work, that's the only place I want to be after the gig. I can just be dad on a business trip once the door is locked and the tv is on.

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1 hour ago, Ramsey said:

This was a documentary about an addict. I've seen addiction right up close and Flair is a straight up junkie.

This was just sad for me.

I know I mirror some of the sentiments of other posters when I say that, as a 44 year old with two kids and a 23 year marriage, Flair seems like the most selfish, awful creature a person could end up sharing a life with. As a wrestling fan, his run as the last of the great traveling NWA champions is fascinating, but hearing about him skipping out on his kids as children and then enabling them as adults makes me sick. Flair's is also a great cautionary tale. I'm, in my part of the world, relatively "famous."  Top radio dj in the market, comedian who sells out big rooms in the area and occasionally travels out of market for casino gigs, plays in a rock band, mc's everything, even has a stage name. Any level of fame can eat you if you let it. When the question is posed to Flair about "why can't you just hang out in your room, be alone, watch tv," he couldn't answer why. I can tell you when I travel for work, that's the only place I want to be after the gig. I can just be dad on a business trip once the door is locked and the tv is on.

The father in me was very angry at Flair, but I gave him props because at least he was brave and honest enough to sit there and admit how selfish he was knowing that everyone watching will judge him. 

I also gave Ric a bit of a pass because of New Jack and other cautionary tales about how Flair isn't even close to being the worst example of bringing your gimmick home with you.

I'm a bit hazy on the timeline as far as when the documentary was filmed versus his recent health issues,, but Flair being so candid felt a lot like a classic show of unburdening to me.  Confess your soul before your number really comes up.

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I would agree with him finally coming clean and showing the toll that it took on him and his relationships. He had three other wives in between first and last. My god, that is psychic damage on an epic scale.

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1 hour ago, J.T. said:

The father in me was very angry at Flair, but I gave him props because at least he was brave and honest enough to sit there and admit how selfish he was knowing that everyone watching will judge him. 

I also gave Ric a bit of a pass because of New Jack and other cautionary tales about how Flair isn't even close to being the worst example of bringing your gimmick home with you.

I'm a bit hazy on the timeline as far as when the documentary was filmed versus his recent health issues,, but Flair being so candid felt a lot like a classic show of unburdening to me.  Confess your soul before your number really comes up.

They’ve been working on this for quite a while, so I would presume his stuff was done before his health issues. Unless, he is noticeably different physically. Seems he is smaller now than before, understandably. 

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