APRIL 2017 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[KidNatural]

6 hours ago, Shane said:

It's been 6 years since Larry Sweeney died. He's a guy I think about a lot. What would a guy with such an outsized personality and sense of humor been able to accomplish on today's scene?

#12LargeBrother

Given that Kevin Steen, El Generico, Brodie Lee, Jon Moxley, Tyler Black et al are at the top of the industry... The possibilities are endless. Larry Sweeney was the Heenan of his generation.

[The Natural]

17 hours ago, nate said:

I may get this one.

 

17 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

It's rare I get these anymore with the Network and everything, but I'm interested in the Owens documentary so I'll surely pick up a copy.

I heard how amazing Shibata/Okada is and it very well maybe MOTY going by people's reactions.  But if Shibata does headbutts like that and doesn't know better then I'm just not going to watch it.  That shit is stupid and makes me think much less of the guy.

I'll be getting the Kevin Owens profile DVD as I like him, for the documentary and nailing the matches barring one exception.

15 hours ago, MoeCristyV.1.6 said:

I don't remember where I read it, but Tanahashi explains Shibata's views in his book.

 

Ah, Here it is:

 

 

 

Thanks. Hiroshi Tanahashi is right. Do you know what Tanahashi said about his match with Minoru Suxuki at King of Pro-Wrestling 2012 and his famous series with Kazuchika Okada?

14 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

As much as I enjoy Shibata's work (and those of all great wrestling "meat-choppers" and crowbars) at times, Tana's on the mark. There's no future in it when you can't pull off an exciting match without a shoot headbutt that busts yourself open hardway and possibly seriously injures yourself or your opponent. It limits you to being a special attraction like Lesnar and if you're only getting your jollies stiffing people, there's probably a bar you can go to that can provide that instead. 

I'm in the minority on Shibata.

13 hours ago, RIPPA said:

@Natural - This includes the UK dates you were looking for

Big thank you for finding this, @RIPPA!

[BurningBeard]

I never got Shibata. Portrayed as a tough guy solely because he works stiff like that automatically makes him a double-hard bastard, yet he absolutely fucking sucks in a legit MMA setting. Japan logic I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Just learn to work you fucking mark! 

[Craig H]

Ugh, now it comes out that Shibata suffered paralysis (although temporary?) to the right side of his body and his future career is in doubt. 

This comes from his doctor. This doesn't exactly sound like an angle to me. 

[The Natural]

3 hours ago, CreativeControl said:

I never got Shibata. Portrayed as a tough guy solely because he works stiff like that automatically makes him a double-hard bastard, yet he absolutely fucking sucks in a legit MMA setting. Japan logic I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Just learn to work you fucking mark! 

I'm with you.

1 hour ago, Craig H said:

Ugh, now it comes out that Shibata suffered paralysis (although temporary?) to the right side of his body and his future career is in doubt. 

This comes from his doctor. This doesn't exactly sound like an angle to me. 

Damn. Now that's too far gone.

[OSJ]

15 hours ago, Peck said:

Glenn Jacobs' campaign slogan in his bid for Mayor of Knox County, TN is "Lighting The Way For Our Future" with an image of a flame.

https://jacobsformayor.com/

I chuckled.

That's fucking priceless. I don't care for the man's politics, but he does have a wonderful sense of humor.

[OSJ]

1 hour ago, Craig H said:

Ugh, now it comes out that Shibata suffered paralysis (although temporary?) to the right side of his body and his future career is in doubt. 

This comes from his doctor. This doesn't exactly sound like an angle to me. 

Fuck! NJPW has to start telling the guys to lay off the crazy headbutting shit, it ads little to the match and it costs careers. I really hope he's ultimately okay.

 

7 minutes ago, The Natural said:

3 hours ago, CreativeControl said:

I never got Shibata. Portrayed as a tough guy solely because he works stiff like that automatically makes him a double-hard bastard, yet he absolutely fucking sucks in a legit MMA setting.

CC: With all due respect, the average failed martial artist would rip most people to shreds. I know a bunch of dead rabbits from the Old Country up in Seattle that wouldn't know a wristlock from a wristwatch, but I sure wouldn't want to be the one to call one of them a pussy. 

[Dolfan in NYC]

Lana apparently got groped by TSA at Logan Airport this morning.  She tweeted about it, but has since deleted the tweet. 

[Craig H]

I'm still thinking about Shibata this morning. Maybe it's because I really got into his work over the last year, but this sucks. And who knows if it was the headbutt that did it. It could have been a combination of things, but now I almost regret being a fan of someone who went that hard, sacrificing his own health in the process.

[BurningBeard]

...and that's also why I stopped watching puro after the Misawa incident. I felt almost complicit because I'd enjoyed that hard hitting style so much 

[Matt D]

3 minutes ago, CreativeControl said:

...and that's also why I stopped watching puro after the Misawa incident. I felt almost complicit because I'd enjoyed that hard hitting style so much 

Learn to love Larry. So much heat. So little work. So much value when he does actually do something. That's pro wrestling.

 

[OSJ]

2 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Learn to love Larry. So much heat. So little work. So much value when he does actually do something. That's pro wrestling.

 

The Miz of his generation, damn I loved Larry's work.

[Reed]

16 hours ago, Peck said:

Glenn Jacobs' campaign slogan in his bid for Mayor of Knox County, TN is "Lighting The Way For Our Future" with an image of a flame.

https://jacobsformayor.com/

I chuckled.

If he doesn't chokeslam his opponent at the end of every debate I will be very sad indeed.

[Reed]

1 hour ago, OSJ said:

That's fucking priceless. I don't care for the man's politics, but he does have a wonderful sense of humor.

"People, I deserve your vote because my rival wants to send this town to Hell!"

*pause*

"No, seriously. I've actually been to Hell. I know about these things."  

[Matt D]

It's a gripe of mine. When you read Observers from the late 80s/early 90s, and even later, there's a lot in there that really undervalues the "old tricks" and emphasizes action and moves instead. I think you can draw a straight line from that to the Scott Keiths of the world, which isn't necessarily this particular school of wrestling criticism (the DVDVR one, the name "workrate report" notwithstanding). It led to a pretty massive undervaluing of narratives, of character work, of selling (putting a primacy on bumping and cardio), on working a crowd instead of popping them. You can get athletic action other places. You can get acrobatics other places. The beauty of wrestling is in the illusion. It's in the manipulation. It's efficiency and leverage. Getting so, so much out of so little, and getting even more out of so much because of it. Those old tricks moving the crowd are the point, not some hindrance that gets in the way of star ratings. 

[Curt McGirt]

...and at the same time no matter how much we appreciate the little stuff and safe work we are still gonna love someone shoot pushing someone locked in a stretcher off a ramp. 

Being a wrestling fan, it's a burning thing, and it makes a firey ring 

[Craig H]

This almost calls back to that long discussion we had on here years ago about how Cena was a master at working for the cheap seats. I think that at the time I really underappreciated how much Cena exaggerated his movements and basically put on a show for everyone in the arena.

Oddly enough, in the years since, he almost moved away from that with his whole Indy Cena run, doing shit like springboard stunners, Canadian Destroyers, etc. 

[Matt D]

Not to distract from my hugely important point above, but the one moment that I winced at the most in that whole exchange was when Braun just chucked him at a table with no control. 

The running power slam onto the cart was just as effective, because it had more build and anticipation to it (which kind of gets back to my point), and it was way more controlled (also it was great when the wheels moved a bit this way and that at the end).

[Craig H]

Yeah, that toss, while an incredible feat of strength, looked really scary from a safety perspective. On the first viewing and even in the gif above it looks like Roman totally smashes the back of his head on the edge of a table. Either that, or he goes through a table like normal and the half closest to Braun kicks out sideways to make it look like Roman's head crashes through the back half.

[Technico Support]

27 minutes ago, Craig H said:

This almost calls back to that long discussion we had on here years ago about how Cena was a master at working for the cheap seats. I think that at the time I really underappreciated how much Cena exaggerated his movements and basically put on a show for everyone in the arena.

Owens is the modern master of this.  Everything he does is exaggerated and awesome.

[Craig H]

Just now, Technico Support said:

Owens is the modern master of this.  Everything he does is exaggerated and awesome.

YES! You're completely spot on about that.

[Jiji]

I kept laughing and laughing at the cart moving a little bit after the ol' DBS powerslam.

That segment may not have been innovative but the level of destruction and the timing between Braun leaving and returning was so perfect. All-time segment up there with the best Austin stuff. Didn't have the emotional payoff of something like Bryan turning on Bray in the cage but it's legitimately one of my favourite WWE angles I've seen. 

The Youtube clip is now almost at 5 million views.

Edit: I forgot to say how much I loved the useless security guards and refs standing with their arms out towards Braun and then cowering when he looked at them. So stupid and awesome and wrestling.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

No Braun official merch at the WWE Shop, but very seriously considering this purchase:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/272600710588?lpid=82&chn=ps&var=571719340335&ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-117182-37290-0%2F2%3Fmtid%3D1588%26kwid%3D1%26crlp%3D164965185820_324272%26itemid%3D272600710588%26targetid%3D271413277430%26rpc%3D0.25%26rpc_upld_id%3D116199%26device%3Dm%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fulk%252Fitm%252Flike%252F272600710588%253Flpid%253D82%2526chn%253Dps%2526var%253D571719340335%26adtype%3Dpla%26googleloc%3D9003325%26poi%3D%26campaignid%3D714751104%26adgroupid%3D42866488452%26rlsatarget%3Dpla-271413277430%26gclid%3DCICF-9_An9MCFdGKswodReULnQ%26srcrot%3D711-117182-37290-0%26rvr_id%3D1199490094565&ul_noapp=true

[SirSmUgly]

3 hours ago, Matt D said:

Learn to love Larry. So much heat. So little work. So much value when he does actually do something. That's pro wrestling.

 

Stalling is the most underrated pro wrestling tactic ever.

I'm with the rest of y'all. Personally, I get much more entertainment out of Jim Breaks working a wristlock while yelling insults at people in the audience than I do watching guys kill one another with head drops and wild dives from great heights. The former is enjoyable without making me question the ethics of watching pro wrestling (at least from the standpoint of my watching causing wrestlers to do ever more dangerous things in the ring). 

[Roman]

Some of the best matches I've ever watched consisted of The Destroyer trying to get out of Head Locks while cussing at his opponent, the referee and the crowd for thirty minutes.