2017 ROH DISCUSSION THREAD

[RIPPA]

Per Meltzer - Dalton Castle will be out for several months due to a bad back.

Clearly hurt from carrying the company for so long

[Web Conn]

So the Death Before Dishonor card is out but it hasn't been officially announced so I'll put spoiler tags on it

Spoiler

https://www.ewrestlingnews.com/news/spoilers-full-card-roh-death-dishonor-ppv

The ROH Death Before Dishonor PPV is set to take place at Sam’s Town Live in Las Vegas, Nevada on September 22nd. Several wrestlers from New Japan Pro Wrestling (NJPW) are expected to work the event. According to The Wrestling Observer Newsletter, here is what the card looks like for the event:

* Jay White vs. Punishment Martinez (Stipulation to be announced)

* Last Real Man Standing Match: Jay Lethal vs. Silas Young

* Winner Gets a Six man Tag Title Shot: The Kingdom (Matt Taven, T.K. O’Ryan & Vinny Marseglia) vs. Mark, Jay Briscoe & Bully Ray

* ROH Six Man Tag Team Title Match: Champions Adam page & The Young Bucks vs. Winners of The Kingdom vs. Bully & The Briscoes

* ROH Tag Team Title Match: Champions the Young Bucks vs. The Motor City Machine Guns

* ROH TV Title Match: Champion KUSHIDA vs. Kenny King

* ROH Title Match: Champion Cody vs. Minoru Suzuki

Doesn't look like a bad show on paper, I'll be in attendance but boy do they need to fill their roster out. 

[Nice Guy Eddie]

The Young Bucks are pulling double duty and either The Kingdom or The Briscoes/Bully Ray are pulling double duty.

Their roster is Karen Carpenter thin right now. Delirious better hope New Japan never decides to sever their relationship or he might have to start building his own new stars and ROH may have to actually scout out indy talent rather than just those that pay for their seminars.

[Web Conn]

They have a TV taping the next day too. Unless they are going to use local Vegas and Southern California talent it's gonna be a thin set of tapings. 

There's a ton of talent out there that might not be "names" but they are good wrestlers and up and coming and ROH could build upon them if they wanted to.

The tag division needs a facelift for sure I mean nothing against the Young Bucks but besides them its pretty thin. I mean maybe push Coast 2 Coast up the ranks as the hot up and coming tag team, if the want a JTTS team why not bring Jigsaw & Rukus back with Julius Smoke and reform the Vulture Squad. Also use The Carnies more. I think they are about to become big so strike while the irons hot and sign them to some sort of semi exclusive deal or something. Josh Woods isn't bad but boy is he green If they want to push an MMA guy sign Tom Lawlor, let him do his other dates but bring him in he has some recognition maybe have him in to feud with Woods but eventually Woods earns Lawlors respect and they form a tag team with Dan Severn as their manager/coach. Bring back David Starr too he's an up and coming talent and Curt Stallion he impressed me during the top prospect tournament. 

 there's been talk on this board about Sam Adonis as ROH Champion but if the plan is to start building towards a Cody vs Dalton program then it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to bring in Sam Adonis to start bulding him up for a program with Dalton when he eventually wins the ROH Title. Have Kenny King win the TV title at the PPV. Bring Adonis in at the Next tapings start building a program between him and King. Adonis beats King for the TV title at Final Battle, he holds it for awhile and then have him lose it to some rising star at Supercard of Honor and Maybe Dalton wins the World title at that Show or something and Then you start the Dalton-Adonis program. The Ambiguous Superstar vs The Conservative Athlete it could be a fun program run it for awhile and what the hell give Adonis the Strap at some point. you can always give it back to Dalton. In between the Dalton-Adonis matches you can run the Dalton vs Cody rematch, Dalton vs Silas and Dalton vs Cabana. If done right it could take them to Final Battle 2018. 

And another to get new talent would be starting some time of developmental partnership with Maryland Championship Wrestling. ROH's HQ is in Baltimore that's where the ROH Dojo is and where MCW is based. Some sort of talent agreement where ROH students work MCW shows and ROH talent that don't work indy shows like Daniels, Kaz, Lethal and The Briscoes come in and work on big MCW shows and homegrown MCW talent on the rise can get looked at and booked on ROH shows. 

All that would probably mean getting a new booker. I'd also add like 2 or 3 more shows a month. 

[sabremike]

Re: Sam Adonis: it seems like a VERY bad idea to make half of your audience out to be heels. They would be insane to go in that direction.

[Web Conn]

You think America is too split in their politics for Adonis vs Dalton to work? I think Dalton is over enough in ROH that he would clearly be the face and Adonis would clearly be the heel. I geuss having Adonis as a clear heel as TV champion before the Dalton feud would be the problem.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

I have a feeling we're going to see Austin Aries back at some point. Outside of Dalton, who is injured now, who else is there that's a believable challenger for Cody's title?

I think Silas Young could be, but I don't think he's quite there yet.

I'd run with Kenny King as tv champion and try to build him up as a world title threat.

Going back to the well with Jay Lethal or Jay Briscoe wouldn't accomplish anything. 

I'd bring Austin Aries back, have him dethrone Cody while continuing to build Kenny King, Slias Young, and wait for Dalton to return. 

If Chuck Taylor and Trent? are sticking around for a while, they need to be the ones to win the tag titles from The Young Bucks. 

[Web Conn]

Your idea might be better Eddie. I think it's time Kenny gets a singles title run. Aries as the 2nd 3rd time champion could be fun if it ends with Dalton as Champ. Maybe build Silas up for a run make him the transitional heel champ and give it to Dalton building off their history. That would get them atleast halfway through 2018 if not till final battle 18 depending when Aries shows up and how long he runs the with the title.

Chuckie T and Trent as Tag Chmps would be fun but I think I'd give the MCMG their Honorary Oscars of winning the Tag Titles at DBD and hold them until the next TV Taping in Philly next month. I'd still book Coast 2 Coast as the up and coming hot team and bring the Carnies in. And I'd bring back the Vulture Sqaud in as a JTTS team that's familiar with the long term audience and be convincing even in their losses to put new teams over.

[sabremike]

1 hour ago, Web Conn said:

You think America is too split in their politics for Adonis vs Dalton to work? I think Dalton is over enough in ROH that he would clearly be the face and Adonis would clearly be the heel. I geuss having Adonis as a clear heel as TV champion before the Dalton feud would be the problem.

You missed the entire point. The Adonis character portrays people on one end of the political spectrum as heels. You are effectively portraying half the people in the country as heels, hence it's a bad idea. It's the same thing as when WWE had La Resistance as anti Iraq war heels.

[Jenalysis]

1 hour ago, Web Conn said:

You think America is too split in their politics for Adonis vs Dalton to work? I think Dalton is over enough in ROH that he would clearly be the face and Adonis would clearly be the heel. I geuss having Adonis as a clear heel as TV champion before the Dalton feud would be the problem.

Very risky in the current environment.  Plus folks would bring out Sinclair's links to Trump.  It could lead to some ROH fans boycotting the show- my guess is ROH fans aren't the folks who would boo the Progressive Liberal, and are closer to Chikara fans.

 

I've already decided I would not see any ROH shows here because of the Sinclair links now- same reason I don't shop at Roses.

 

 

 

[Web Conn]

I don't know much about Adonis admittedly I know it's a pro Trump conservative gimmick I could see it turning ugly as people have trouble now a days suspending their disbelief and realizing when something is a show. Not saying your points aren't valid cuz they are but I was looking at it from a different angle.

[nate]

5 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I have a feeling we're going to see Austin Aries back at some point. Outside of Dalton, who is injured now, who else is there that's a believable challenger for Cody's title?

I think Silas Young could be, but I don't think he's quite there yet.

I'd run with Kenny King as tv champion and try to build him up as a world title threat.

Going back to the well with Jay Lethal or Jay Briscoe wouldn't accomplish anything. 

I'd bring Austin Aries back, have him dethrone Cody while continuing to build Kenny King, Slias Young, and wait for Dalton to return. 

If Chuck Taylor and Trent? are sticking around for a while, they need to be the ones to win the tag titles from The Young Bucks. 

You know the answer.

I know the answer.

We all know the answer.

We should embrace the facts.

It's Chicken's time to shine.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

4 hours ago, Web Conn said:

Chuckie T and Trent as Tag Chmps would be fun but I think I'd give the MCMG their Honorary Oscars of winning the Tag Titles at DBD and hold them until the next TV Taping in Philly next month. 

I thought about the possibility of the MCMG dethroning the Bucks. I actually do think they'll get their lifetime achievement reign like Christopher Daniels. The Best Friends should get a lenghty reign at some point. They're a breath of fresh air over the old guard.

[Web Conn]

The Young Bucks are The Young Bucks I don't hate them but they are pretty much THE ROH Tag Team Division right now.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

13 minutes ago, Web Conn said:

The Young Bucks are The Young Bucks I don't hate them but they are pretty much THE ROH Tag Team Division right now.

I don't hate them either. The state of ROH's tag division is rather sad considering how deep it was in the past. Alex Shelley and Jimmy Rave should have had a run with the titles as part of the Embassy. I would have had Shelley and Rave beat Jacobs and Whitmer, which still leads to the Jacobs/Whitmer split over Jacobs growing infatuation with Lacey, and eventually the Age of the Fall. I would have had Aries and Strong beat Shelley and Rave for the titles. There was no need for Tony Mamaluke and Sal Rinauro. 

[Web Conn]

35 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I don't hate them either. The state of ROH's tag division is rather sad considering how deep it was in the past. Alex Shelley and Jimmy Rave should have had a run with the titles as part of the Embassy. I would have had Shelley and Rave beat Jacobs and Whitmer, which still leads to the Jacobs/Whitmer split over Jacobs growing infatuation with Lacey, and eventually the Age of the Fall. I would have had Aries and Strong beat Shelley and Rave for the titles. There was no need for Tony Mamaluke and Sal Rinauro. 

I don't know much of ROH from this period aside from reading the Newswire and watching the Video Wires. Were Mamaluke and Rinauro not an uppercard team. Until ROH on HDNET the only full length ROH Matches I saw were on the Four ROH Koch DVDs.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

18 minutes ago, Web Conn said:

I don't know much of ROH from this period aside from reading the Newswire and watching the Video Wires. Were Mamaluke and Rinauro not an uppercard team. Until ROH on HDNET the only full length ROH Matches I saw were on the Four ROH Koch DVDs.

They were not at all. Tony Mamaluke was supposed to have a singles match at Joe vs. Kobashi, but after he was introduced, he got on mic and said he didn't come to wrestle in a singles match. He brought out Rinauro as his tag partner and they challenged for the titles. They only made three defenses before dropping the titles to Aries & Strong at Final Battle '05.

[Web Conn]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

They were not at all. Tony Mamaluke was supposed to have a singles match at Joe vs. Kobashi, but after he was introduced, he got on mic and said he didn't come to wrestle in a singles match. He brought out Rinauro as his tag partner and they challenged for the titles. They only made three defenses before dropping the titles to Aries & Strong at Final Battle '05.

Oh I guess Gabe wanted his own version of the FBI. I know there was a strange ECW bleed over in ROH in the early days with CW Anderson, Corino, Guido, Mamaluke, Devito and HC Loc being booked routinely and EZ Money even showed up for a match.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

37 minutes ago, Web Conn said:

Oh I guess Gabe wanted his own version of the FBI. I know there was a strange ECW bleed over in ROH in the early days with CW Anderson, Corino, Guido, Mamaluke, Devito and HC Loc being booked routinely and EZ Money even showed up for a match.

I guess. They didn't do anything that painted them as Italian stereotypes. This was actually Mamaluke's return to ROH, as he had previously been there in 2002-2003.

[HumanChessgame]

Mamaluke and Guido were a regular team as well but disbanded when Guido went to WWE.

Speaking of Mamaluke, is he still around? I always thought he was underrated but that may be a fuzzy memory.

[colonial]

6 minutes ago, HumanChessgame said:

Mamaluke and Guido were a regular team as well but disbanded when Guido went to WWE.

Speaking of Mamaluke, is he still around? I always thought he was underrated but that may be a fuzzy memory.

He retired last year due to injuries. Here's an update from him from last year at a fan convention ...

 

 

[Web Conn]

Eddie I think Aries might be showing up in ROH sooner rather than later. I'm only speculating but with ROH in Vegas towards the end of the month (the 22nd & 23rd) I think he might be showing up at either Death Before Dishonor or the TV Tapings the next day.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

4 hours ago, Web Conn said:

Eddie I think Aries might be showing up in ROH sooner rather than later. I'm only speculating but with ROH in Vegas towards the end of the month (the 22nd & 23rd) I think he might be showing up at either Death Before Dishonor or the TV Tapings the next day.

Awesome. He would be a much needed jolt that ROH needs. I'm sticking with Aries as my pick to dethrone Cody. 

His book looks interesting as well. I'm most likely going to pick that up. If you had asked me anytime between 2004-2008 who my favorite wrestler was, the answer was Austin Aries.

[Web Conn]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Awesome. He would be a much needed jolt that ROH needs. I'm sticking with Aries as my pick to dethrone Cody. 

looks like it might happen sooner rather than later. Fantasy booking here but Aries shows up after the Cody-Minoru match, attacks Cody. Then the next night at the TV Tapings they set up Cody vs Aries at the Chicago Global Wars. Put more tickets out there sell it out packed the place with 5,000 people put it on IPPV make some money off Omega's first IWGP title defense and Aries vs Cody. Aries goes over, set up the rematch at Final battle maybe have it end in a no contest after interference from the Bullet Club (a little sports entertainment every now and again doesnt hurt anything) and run the third match at the Anniversary Show in February in like a cage match and there ya go. 

[RIPPA]