J.T. Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Okay, how the fuck does the WWE raiding NXT equate to not caring about the fans if it is all the same fucking company? I think that too much talent raiding is a questionable move because you're moving your draws away from your PPV network and moving them to free television. It doesn't sound like good business sense, but it doesn't mean that WWE doesn't give a shit about its fans. If anything, they care too much since they are moving these folks to a format where you can see them without having to pay for WWE Network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikoBaltimore Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 It also doesn't help some of the talent had no business being called up. Vaudevillains are utter failures, with Simon's backstage temperament not helping matters. Apollo looks great and does cool things, but needed more time to develop. I would have said the same for Carmella and Alexa, but they're almost surprisingly killing it on SD. And Nia definitely needed more development before being called up. Long story short, they should have focused on quality over quantity and they certainly didn't do that. Now because they took too many they're stuck in this "rebuilding" phase when it shouldn't have been the case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 No thread for last night's show (don't think it needs one since it was more than 50% video packages), but Almas/Alexander was really good. For a generic "one guy turns on another because neither has any direction" feud, they packed in a lot of hate and energy. They were working super stiff for some reason, but I enjoyed it. Almas works so much better as a heel, and his constant stalling paid off by luring Cedric in for the rope-assisted low blow as the finish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Heel Almas is amazing. and Liv Morgan is terrrrrible, didn't like her being in the middle and getting the last word in during the backstage segment over Ember who is way better and more over, i get the Liv has the longest issue with Billie and Peyton but it made Moon come off as lower on the ladder than Liv and that's just not right. I think WWE needs to be more selective on who they bring up and when and why. I like NXT as a third brand and love Nak and Joe being on top but if at least one doesn't go up, and it should be Nak, I love Joe but Nak has soooo much upside, its going to start creating a log jam on top. NXT has Nak, Joe, Ares, Roode, Itami and now Strong who can be champ, plus heel Almas is soooo good (I think he could be the one to take the belt off Nak), Alexander is already super over, they seem to be ready to push Dillenger more, The Drifter is a wonderful heel, we'll see what Eric Young is planning with Sanity, and they have Tommy End and Damo waiting in the wings. Plus guys like No Way Jose (who I love but idk if he'll ever be a maineventer even in NXT), The Velveteen Dream, Oney Lorcan, Tino Sabbatelli, and some of the CWC guys. WWE almost needs a fourth (or fifth if 205 live ends up becoming its own thing over time) brand to make room for everybody its getting crazy. I love having so much to enjoy under the WWE network though. Or they should consider giving NXT more time either 30 minutes or a another hour to help make room for people to keep getting over and the development guys to get time to shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLaw Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I feel like No Way Jose has potential as a Tyler Breeze top of the card gatekeeper kind of guy, unless they run with the Swann/Jose tag team, in which case they should debut him on the Smackdown Live after Wrestlemania. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyuubi Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Cedric Alexander is by far the best thing WWE picked up from the Cruiserweight Classic. He is the most consistently good wrestler and he has the upside to go to and from the Cruiserweight division. This dude can be as good as AJ Stles because he already has the ability and athleticism. He just needs the experience in character building which AJ has shown that you can teach that or learn how to obtain it. Almas is heel Eddie Guerrero. What I like about heel turns is that the wrestler completely changes their style. Almas was like a completely different dude in the ring and reminded me so much of Eddie. It may just be me because apparently I make shitty parallels, but I am looking forward to Almas in general. I don't care about the NXT Women's division aside from Asuka and in the future Io Shirai. After Bayley and the Four Horsewomen left, it has been the Asuka show, I could care less about Liv Morgan. I do like Peyton Royce and Billie Kay, but it is just academic that Asuka either going to take that title with her or lose it to Ember Rose or Io Shirai. I'll be honest here. No one who can't hold a mic should go to Raw. Raw does not do people favors. It does not build character. They have three hours and we can say no one benefits from going to Raw unless you are Finn Balor. Smackdown builds feuds and wrestlers and allows them to shine at what they are best at instead of placing them in awkward ass situations. So yes, I want the majority of those called up to go to Smackdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 that was quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 Good thing he wasn't at tonight's weird outdoor party thing where the mouth breathers chanted "You Can't Wrestle" at Sombra But please - don't take NXT away from Full Sail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turk128 Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 8 hours ago, Kyuubi said: Smackdown builds feuds and wrestlers and allows them to shine at what they are best at instead of placing them in awkward ass situations. So yes, I want the majority of those called up to go to Smackdown. I remember when they did the draft and everyone was gloom and doom on SDL because they had a shitty draft. Good writing, recognizing weakness and playing up strengths makes a huge difference. (And a loose cannon of a GM helps, too.) Also, for a creative who spends his time hitting on the women wrestlers, he sure knows how to give all of them a chance to shine and elevate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 12 hours ago, RIPPA said: Just for the record - basically it is our Irish friend, Kris and JJ Williams (from WON) bemoaning how there aren't any home grown talent anymore (and Tim can chime in the next time he visits the thread). Kris made the comparison to how ECW Arena felt after ECW started expanding That is the start of JJ's long commentary on it. I like JJ but to me that is wanting to cater to literally 250 people (and "Kevin" was literally in NXT for like 3 months so I am not sure how much a "connection" there was) I haven't been to as many show this year as JJ has but I see what he and Krisz are talking about. Back when NXT was really hot in late 2014 and 2015, they had guys that the people down here really cared about like Enzo/cass, Bayley, Emma, Tyler, Sami etc. They got over because they worked hard and people got behind them. Now adays, the shows are just here's a bunch of matches with indie guys that have no character and they expect people to care. Like why should I care about people like Roderick Strong, Aries, etc. if I'm a casual WWE fan? No Way Jose and Liv are probably the closest to "homegrown" talent these days and while they are over, the booking hasn't helped them get over with the masses. I don't know how it is for the out of Florida shows but the Florida shows used to be fun with the guys hanging out after the show to talk to the fans and sign autographs. Now the security is real tight and they basically kick out everyone after the show and everyone has to go through a metal detector. I guess that's because of the crazy dude that tried to trespass the performance center. Also, NXT has been doing a lot of false advertising lately. I think that hurts too. Finally, on the call ups, it's pretty obvious they brought up Nia and Apollo too soon. Nia could have had at least a 6-month title reign and maybe a babyface turn and Apollo wasn't even over in NXT so it's not surprising he's not over on the main roster. Guys like Vaudevillans, Breeze and Ascension had to be called up cause they was nothing else they could do in NXT. As for Rippa talking about Almas, it was only a couple drunks that were chanting that. I wouldn't even call it a NXT show. Most of the people there didn't even care about the action and were there just to get Mania tickets or meet Charlotte, Cesaro and the others. Plus it was free so a lot of casuals. Hell I was standing by people that weren't even wrestling fans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turk128 Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 They are using No Way Jose perfectly, using his limits and packaging him with a character that the crowd loved instantly. If it ain't broke, don't change it. Especially with him, he needs time to gestate. I never understood Liv, nor her predecessor, Carmella. Characters that are made for heel-dom or blah-faces. They are probably playing to their strengths (both gals seem to be really nice people outside the ring) but sometimes you need to embody some other character than your own. They really need some more polish. I also remember when Enzo debuted, it sure wasn't overnight that he got over. Ditto Bayley, Emma, Tyler, and Becky (Becky took the longest). Bottom line: something something entitled something immediate gratification something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Z Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Is there really such a big difference in how characters are introduced right now compared to "the last generation"? Maybe my memory is shit, but I didn't really notice a big change. When Kevin Owens made his debut for example, they immediately played off his relationship with Zayn and you were just supposed to know. As far as homegrown characters are concerned, I think they have plenty of guys right now, who weren't big Indy names: Tye Dillinger, No Way Jose, Samson, the AoP, the Revival, Wolfe & Fulton, Blake, Murphy, plenty of the female wrestlers. I don't think the ratio of Indy stars to Non-Indy has changed at all compared to a year or two ago. I obviously can't comment on fan interactions, but I don't think the way the wrestlers interact with fans at Full Sail has an impact on ticket sales in Boston and New York, does it? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyuubi Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 7 hours ago, The Z said: Is there really such a big difference in how characters are introduced right now compared to "the last generation"? Maybe my memory is shit, but I didn't really notice a big change. When Kevin Owens made his debut for example, they immediately played off his relationship with Zayn and you were just supposed to know. As far as homegrown characters are concerned, I think they have plenty of guys right now, who weren't big Indy names: Tye Dillinger, No Way Jose, Samson, the AoP, the Revival, Wolfe & Fulton, Blake, Murphy, plenty of the female wrestlers. I don't think the ratio of Indy stars to Non-Indy has changed at all compared to a year or two ago. I obviously can't comment on fan interactions, but I don't think the way the wrestlers interact with fans at Full Sail has an impact on ticket sales in Boston and New York, does it? Big Cass was big with the Fullsail crowd and did use his camaraderie with the crowd to get over. He used to meet with kids in school and just hang out with them. Cool dude. Bayley did the same. It's ben awhile since I went to Orlando so I am not sure how this generation does but since they travel around a lot more than they did back then, they necessarily don't need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 I was thinking earlier about the state of the NXT women's division and one thing I thought about was how the call ups since last summer have hurt it so bad. Not just by taking the talent off the show but doing so with out letting the talent really put anyone new over on their way out. Becky, Charlotte and Sasha all get called up and only put Bayley over on their way out, Bayley puts over Asuka and Nia and Nia gets called up without putting anyone over on her way out, Dana, Alexa and Carmella all go out of the blue putting Bayley over on their way out, Bayley goes up putting Asuka over again and now we're left with a women's division where Asuka is the only established one. She looks head and shoulders above everyone else because they're all rookies or trying to shake off the jobber label (as Billie and Peyton were the jobbers of the division before 3/4 of the horsewomen got called up). They should have started making something of the Aussie girls when Becky and co went up, have them win a tag match by cheating over Becky and Charlotte or something they took all their established wrestlers and sent out a bunch of people to start from scratch again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 9 hours ago, The Z said: Is there really such a big difference in how characters are introduced right now compared to "the last generation"? Maybe my memory is shit, but I didn't really notice a big change. When Kevin Owens made his debut for example, they immediately played off his relationship with Zayn and you were just supposed to know. As far as homegrown characters are concerned, I think they have plenty of guys right now, who weren't big Indy names: Tye Dillinger, No Way Jose, Samson, the AoP, the Revival, Wolfe & Fulton, Blake, Murphy, plenty of the female wrestlers. I don't think the ratio of Indy stars to Non-Indy has changed at all compared to a year or two ago. I obviously can't comment on fan interactions, but I don't think the way the wrestlers interact with fans at Full Sail has an impact on ticket sales in Boston and New York, does it? You're right about the impact of ticket sales but I think if it's not over on TV, it's going to affect the ticket sales around the country with the casual fans. The TV show seems so cold these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfrey Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 2 hours ago, Sublime said: I was thinking earlier about the state of the NXT women's division and one thing I thought about was how the call ups since last summer have hurt it so bad. Not just by taking the talent off the show but doing so with out letting the talent really put anyone new over on their way out. Becky, Charlotte and Sasha all get called up and only put Bayley over on their way out, Bayley puts over Asuka and Nia and Nia gets called up without putting anyone over on her way out, Dana, Alexa and Carmella all go out of the blue putting Bayley over on their way out, Bayley goes up putting Asuka over again and now we're left with a women's division where Asuka is the only established one. She looks head and shoulders above everyone else because they're all rookies or trying to shake off the jobber label (as Billie and Peyton were the jobbers of the division before 3/4 of the horsewomen got called up). They should have started making something of the Aussie girls when Becky and co went up, have them win a tag match by cheating over Becky and Charlotte or something they took all their established wrestlers and sent out a bunch of people to start from scratch again. I was thinking about this too. They really gutted the division for the brand split and made it a one woman show, hence bringing in someone like Mickie James as a challenger. I agree they should've established a few ladies before all the names left but I think it will be fun to see them build it all up again. Any guesses on who the next stand out will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 54 minutes ago, Tim Evans said: You're right about the impact of ticket sales but I think if it's not over on TV, it's going to affect the ticket sales around the country with the casual fans. The TV show seems so cold these days. The TV that they shot on the road had some great heat. Hope the do that more often. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zev Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Godfrey said: I was thinking about this too. They really gutted the division for the brand split and made it a one woman show, hence bringing in someone like Mickie James as a challenger. I agree they should've established a few ladies before all the names left but I think it will be fun to see them build it all up again. Any guesses on who the next stand out will be? Within the next 6 months, Nikki Cross. Within the next 18, Mary Dobson. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted November 18, 2016 Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Infinit said: The TV that they shot on the road had some great heat. Hope the do that more often. Well we will see how this one episode shot at the Smackdown tapings goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 4 hours ago, Godfrey said: I agree they should've established a few ladies before all the names left but I think it will be fun to see them build it all up again. Any guesses on who the next stand out will be? I still maintain that Aliyah will be really good, even though they seem to be the least interested her right now. She's way ahead of where you'd expect her to be at this point in the ring, she's still a blank slate character wise, and she's super young. Time is on her side and there aren't any sure-things ahead of her other than Ember right now. She can easily wait out Liv (the second coming of NXT solo Carmella) and Billie/Peyton (who are more Blake and Murphy than BFFs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Sombra v Dorada in tampa tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyuubi Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 5 hours ago, Godfrey said: I was thinking about this too. They really gutted the division for the brand split and made it a one woman show, hence bringing in someone like Mickie James as a challenger. I agree they should've established a few ladies before all the names left but I think it will be fun to see them build it all up again. Any guesses on who the next stand out will be? Io Shirai is going to be insta-over. Ember Moon probably as she is the only one who is at least decent when it comes to credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdangerously Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Io Shirai is apparently staying in Japan, according to Meltzer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyuubi Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Just now, mattdangerously said: Io Shirai is apparently staying in Japan, according to Meltzer. Dammit. And he would know, too. The motherfucker follows all things Japanese like a creepy weaboo fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 7 hours ago, odessasteps said: Sombra v Dorada in tampa tonight. They also had Damo vs Ho Ho Lun which makes me laugh for reasons I can't explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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