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SEPT 2016 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

RIPPA

By RIPPA
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

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Gorman

Gorman

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Matt D said:

Not if he gets overproduced like reigns was. Part of Reign's problem was that Vince was taking such an interest that he was feeding him Daffy Duck lines, right?

Sylvester, actually, but maybe he would have gotten over more with Daffy Duck lines.

"A close-up, you jerk! A close-up!"

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joseph2112

joseph2112

Posted
Posted

They have fucked up so many chances to do the only thing that will work. Turn the guy heel already. He gets booed because he is the chosen one, then make him HHH's boy as the heel champion. I really dont think people would cheer him because he turned either. IMO, there is no other way to fix this.

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JohnnyJ

JohnnyJ

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, joseph2112 said:

They have fucked up so many chances to do the only thing that will work. Turn the guy heel already. He gets booed because he is the chosen one, then make him HHH's boy as the heel champion. I really dont think people would cheer him because he turned either. IMO, there is no other way to fix this.

Agreed. I don't understand why there are always these fantasy plans to turn him  back face. 

What they have in Reigns is someone with all of the heat of a Cena without the ratings boosts, merch sales, notoriety, etc. The financial reasons they could never turn Cena don't apply to Reigns. Just turn him and ride the wave.

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DTTW

DTTW

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

And honestly, Reigns is needed.  Raw's main event is pretty anemic.  It's Owens, Rollins, and Reigns.  Jericho can easily be worked in.  HHH can work a couple of matches. But beyond that, it's all mid-carders or guys who need to be built up for a few months before they can be on that level.  Unless they can talk Lesnar into doing more shows, they can't afford to let anyone healthy not be around.

Or you just pointed out how shitty and terrible their writing is considering how much talent they have on deck and waiting in the wings. If Roman was pushing numbers higher I'd agree that he's needed, but since he ain't, i don't. Let him go away. For fucks sake, has there by anyone else who got his level of push by wrestling in only one other company their entire career? David Arquette springs to mind. What about Lashley in WWE? 

 

22 minutes ago, Gorman said:

Sylvester, actually, but maybe he would have gotten over more with Daffy Duck lines.

"A close-up, you jerk! A close-up!"

Wrestling needs another Daffy Duck. Kurt Angle had it and it was glorious. We need that again.

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DTTW

DTTW

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

Vince isn't going to let any of the bigger names go away. That's it.  Any debate had over it is a variation on fantasy booking.

You are right, Cena isn't going anywhere. Except that part where he's slowly trying to leave like the Rock.

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Burgundy LaRue

Burgundy LaRue

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, DTTW said:

You are right, Cena isn't going anywhere. Except that part where he's slowly trying to leave like the Rock.

That's not the context I'm talking about, and you know it.  But please, continue with your two-penny jokes.  Maybe someone will pay you a nickel the next time you crack one out of pity.

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DTTW

DTTW

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

That's not the context I'm talking about, and you know it.  But please, continue with your two-penny jokes.  Maybe someone will pay you a nickel the next time you crack one out of pity.

Really...there's Brock, Cena, and then pretty much everyone else. They are trying to change things but that is what they have created. 

No crap they won't let guys wrestle elsewhere, but any notion that everyone but those two being important is ridiculous.

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SirSmUgly

SirSmUgly

Posted
Posted

Reigns's initial push was so misguided that I'm not even sure a heel turn will save him as a face. 

The way he got pushed was such that the fans took him pretty much as an avatar for Vince McMahon the showrunner. The crowd hates Vince McMahon the showrunner. He's the biggest heel in the company. As soon as they went out of their way to put Reigns over Bryan clean and drop Bryan to the midcard, they might as well have torched all the face Reigns storyline plans they had along with it. Nevermind that Bryan was forced to retire or whatever - in that moment, without that foreknowledge, the fans pretty much got a "Fuck you" from Vince in their eyes, and some of these fuckers have loooooong memories. 

This is compounded by Papa HHH being Friend of the Smarks in those very same fans' eyes. They don't really give a shit about watching a bloated twenty-plus minute forced epic from him, but all the other stuff where he enters storylines with their favorites, they love. HHH is the on-screen antidote to megaheel Vince McMahon the showrunner in their eyes. 

So this means:

  • Heel HHH is a face as far as the crowd is concerned, and so is the heel he betrayed.
  • Heel HHH is a known supporter of heel Kevin Owens, who gets "You deserve it" chants after winning a belt via massive interference partly because they have an emotional attachment to Owens beyond the storyline and partly because it's a vocal repudiation of Vince's ideas for who should get the belt (in their mind, at least). 
  • Face Roman Reigns is a heel
  • Even John Cena, who should have reached "We respect you, long-time ace" status by this point, still gets shit on if he is programmed against a guy like AJ Styles because Vince is the guy who pushed Cena (nevermind that apparently, Vince is also a fan of Styles). 

There's a point at which all this could have been avoided, but I'm not sure where that point is. 

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Niners Fan in CT

Niners Fan in CT

Posted
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Do y'all agree that booing Roman Reigns has become part of the show?  I think there's a few things going on.  The first being that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was the dude who went over instead of Daniel Bryan.  Bryan was a people pick while Reigns was a Vince guy.  But the booking didn't help him either. The comedic promo material.  That shit was awful.  He should have been more a silent badass or man of a few words like The Shield days.

All that said, I think he'd be able to overcome this all but now booing him is also a part of the program.

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Go2Sleep

Go2Sleep

Posted
Posted

There's definitely a feedback loop to booing Roman. I'm pretty sure he's ruined as a top guy. At this point it would take so long to rehab him, the talent pipeline WWE has right now will completely drown him by the time he's ready (or people are ready to accept him, as it were).

50 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

There's a point at which all this could have been avoided, but I'm not sure where that point is. 

Probably the Shield break-up, although I think they could've salvaged it as late as the 15 Rumble. Ignoring the hindsight of how beat up Bryan was and how good Brock/Roman actually turned out to be, Bryan challenging Lesnar while Roman got the US title push they gave to Cena would've looked better for all parties at the time. They could've even done the same Mania finish with Rollins, and it would've been an easier pill to swallow for Bryan's fans for his push to end at the hands of Seth instead of Roman. Plus you know, the heat would've gone on the guy they wanted to be their top heel instead of the guy they wanted to be their top face.

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(BP)

(BP)

Posted
Posted

Punk's parting gift of the "Make Roman Look Strong" story has effectively destroyed the desired reactions for his offense most of the time. Anything he does takes the anti-Roman doofs out of the match and makes it about the booking instead of the story in-ring. 

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SorceressKnight

SorceressKnight

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Smelly McUgly said:

So this means:

  • Heel HHH is a face as far as the crowd is concerned, and so is the heel he betrayed.
  • Heel HHH is a known supporter of heel Kevin Owens, who gets "You deserve it" chants after winning a belt via massive interference partly because they have an emotional attachment to Owens beyond the storyline and partly because it's a vocal repudiation of Vince's ideas for who should get the belt (in their mind, at least). 
  • Face Roman Reigns is a heel
  • Even John Cena, who should have reached "We respect you, long-time ace" status by this point, still gets shit on if he is programmed against a guy like AJ Styles because Vince is the guy who pushed Cena (nevermind that apparently, Vince is also a fan of Styles). 

There's a point at which all this could have been avoided, but I'm not sure where that point is. 

The Attitude Era. No, really. 

WWE has glorified the Attitude Era as their finest hour and the greatest time period in WWE history, and the only era that truly meant anything even now. It had some valuable points (highest ratings, made WWE a billion-dollar company, two of their biggest stars back-to-back, one who went on to become one of the biggest movie stars in the world)...but in the process, by glorifying the Attitude Era, the WWE manages to keep two things as an unstated plot point for the true, longtime, hardcore fans: "No matter how they seem to be or even if they do something you'd want them to do, never forget that the McMahon family are ALWAYS evil and you should never trust them- especially when they tell you what you want", and "Anything that has even the slightest stench of "corporate" is just a tool of THE MAN that they are using to KEEP YOU DOWN."

When the smoke clears- you get those problems.

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sydneybrown

sydneybrown

Posted
Posted
Just now, DTTW said:

Roman can be rehabbed but he has to go away.

The thing is that he DID go away.  He was out three months with a hernia and absolutely nothing changed when he came back.

Roman Reigns is starting to turn into that 4 Non Blondes song "What's Up?"  That fucking song was drilled into my head so badly in 1993 that 23 years later, I still can't fucking sit through it. 

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DTTW

DTTW

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, sydneybrown said:

The thing is that he DID go away.  He was out three months with a hernia and absolutely nothing changed when he came back.

Roman Reigns is starting to turn into that 4 Non Blondes song "What's Up?"  That fucking song was drilled into my head so badly in 1993 that 23 years later, I still can't fucking sit through it. 

 
 
 

Fair point. I guess I don't consider 3 months to be long enough. Did they talk about him every week on tv?

Things have to pass him by so he's not relevant when he comes back I guess. He needs to be forgotten for a while. As long as he's still fresh in the fans minds that stink is going to stick.

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