Games of Thrones Unsullied thread

[EVA]

Who knew dragons understood semiotics?

[Niners Fan in CT]

Ah yeah,  you know what this feeling is right now?   Underwhelmed I believe is the word. I really liked the first half of the episode. I kept yelling at Jon to fucking WAKE UP but I knew that HE KNEW that he had to do something but his loyal ass was in denial and looking for something,  anything to get himself out of that position.  

Finally he did the right thing.  Dinklage was acting his damn ass off too..    Drogon burned the throne down and dipped.  I didn't have many issues with that.  

Shit,  I didn't have many issues with the ending montage either.  It was pretty much perfect for each Stark sibling.   

HOWEVER,  the middle portion with BRANN and the whole nominating process was garbage.  I hated it. The Bronn and Davos back and forth was funny.  But I'm talking about the whole Grey Worm and leaders of the seven kingdoms and Tarly being ALL IN on democracy.   I couldn't stand any of that.  Fuck all that.  

So there were some positives but this needed to be 20 episodes instead of 13.  I'm not sure how much of the final two seasons I'd want to go back and rewatch and THAT is a problem.. 

[Brian Fowler]

Sam was the only one all in on democracy. The rest literally laughed at it.

[Matt D]

I was trying to think of a good way to explain how no one cared about Bran. I started with X-Pac "Go away heat" and then leaned towards "Lance Von Erich."

But the real issue is just the lack of the POV formula. It's insane to say this 8 seasons in and when it was such a cultural phenomena, but I'm pretty sure this story doesn't work without the POV story engine. If we had seen the last few seasons from Bran's point of view as well, we might give a shit about him. Instead, he was a plot device, an exposition device, a dingus (of the Maltese Falcon sort), but never an actual character, and there's literally no reason to give a shit about him.

The kid who liked to climb and got pushed to start this whole thing? That kid you cared about. Why? Because the point of view chapters with him early on. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

Jon's life is interesting to think about.  When I was in college we used to visit with elderly folks,  it was a companionship thing. 

Anyway, Jon's whole deal is like chatting with a WWII vet and they have stories for days and I look on in amazement and wonder how they survived it and so crazy that they lived through that part of history and witnessed it firsthand and now they are laid up in elderly housing and nobody really knows their place in history.  I guess Jon is better off than that because he will be remembered and the north will remember but he's going to live the rest of his days away from it all.  

[Craig H]

I liked it. A lot. Made up for a lot of what I disagreed with earlier primarily because this felt like how it should have ended, but we were rushed to this ending.

I'm completely satisfied though. The characters I loved the most received a proper ending and we're where we should be with Tyrion finding a way to unfuck the city and the seven kingdoms.

I'll have some more thoughts or nit picks later, but yeah, this was what I hoped it would be instead of what I feared it could be.

[Raziel]

2 minutes ago, Craig H said:

I liked it. A lot. Made up for a lot of what I disagreed with earlier primarily because this felt like how it should have ended, but we were rushed to this ending.

I'm completely satisfied though. The characters I loved the most received a proper ending and we're where we should be with Tyrion finding a way to unfuck the city and the seven kingdoms.

I'll have some more thoughts or nit picks later, but yeah, this was what I hoped it would be instead of what I feared it could be.

SIX Kingdoms.

[Brian Fowler]

17 minutes ago, EVA said:

Who knew dragons understood semiotics?

Well, TV Drogon seemed to have a psychic connection to Dany.

BTW, there's a wild dragon out there somewhere. That feels like it could be an issue.

[Niners Fan in CT]

My major gripe beyond "here's the leaders of the realm" as I was wondering where the fuck they've been during all this was that I don't believe Grey Worm would have let Tyrion or Jon live. 

[Craig H]

1 minute ago, Raziel said:

SIX Kingdoms.

Thank you. Yes. Six kingdoms, as it should be.

THE QUEEN IN THE NORTH!

(I teared up.)

[Craig H]

I laughed my ass off hard when Tully stood up and I go, really, this guy?

And then everyone sitting there responded the same way.

Fucking hilarious.

[Matt D]

5 minutes ago, L_W_P said:

I don't mind Bran ending up as king. It's a nice ending to the story beat that really started all of this & and neat echo to Bran the Builder.

So yeah, with a bit more thought. That's the thing.

This would have been a better ending if everything after Season 1 didn't happen. It's a really good ending to Season 1. The limb I am out on right now is that Martin's had most of these ending bits worked out for years, since before the start of the show. It's just that the last few seasons did a pretty terrible job getting us there from the last point that was more or less worked out. 

To me, it makes a lot of sense. The show ends with Jon back at the wall (or past it), a Stark in Winterfell, with Jamie and Cersei together until the end, with Tyrion as Hand leading a Small Council, and most especially, with Bran, with whom this whole story basically begins. 

If you stopped someone at the end of Season (or Book) 1 and told them this was the end, mad Targaryen and all, it'd feel feasible. 

[Brian Fowler]

There's actually precedent for picking a king like that in the books. When succession wasn't clear, the major Lords would vote.

[Craig H]

This was also one of the funniest episodes they've done in a little while.

[Craig H]

Regarding Bran, he's the most milquetoast character in this whole series. I'm largely ok with him being King for the reasons stated here and the king doesn't mean as much as it did. He's mainly just a figurehead.

I think everyone might have less of a problem with Bran if they didn't give him quite possibly the lamest material to work with in the entire series. Every season he pretty much sucked in because his direction was to always act like a wooden board or be annoying. Maybe with better writing, better direction, better acting, and a different actor it would feel like a bigger deal.

[Brian Fowler]

In the universe of the show, he makes perfect sense. Was raised by a good and just man, has no desire for power, literally possesses the wisdom of the ages to help him make decisions.

[Matt D]

I'm increasingly dubious about the Bran thing, if only because his first act is letting his sister break off the North. I bet there'd be plenty of people who wouldn't look past the fact he's a Stark and feel like all of this smells fishy. Most of Westeros is not going to go for the whole "three-eyed raven" bullshit. 

Someone else is rising up within the year (probably Yara again; they can't help themselves). 

3 minutes ago, L_W_P said:

I honestly think they could get away with all the same story beats bar 2 from last episode and it would have been perfect - 

Jamie & Cersei's death - They needed something grander than being crushed by falling bricks. I think an amazing work would have been Euron finding out the baby was Jamie's and killing them both or at least stabbing Cersei before Jamie kills himself to be with her forever. Same beats, just different execution.

Dany torches KL - This is a simple fix and a brilliant one I saw on Twitter: DON'T ring the bells. Dany thinks she needs to rule by fear, the city is in an unwinnable position. They should ring the bells but they dont. Now Dany sits there getting more and more angry/annoyed/upset before snapping that these people will never love her so let them burn.

One take I saw had a runner/messenger in the Red Keep waiting for the order from Cersei. This person then makes the call and starts sprinting for the bells but is stopped somehow. Either by the Mountain, or engulfed in the fire from Drogon or the first thing Dany does is blow up the bell tower just as the runner gets there, dooming the city.

Overall though I think they managed to save it well enough in the end. It just needed a couple of tiny tweaks (or 3 more episodes of the Mad Queen vs Cersei) to really nail the futility of it all.

So here, I think the best move is to have Jamie convince Cersei to ring the bells somehow on their way out, and then have everything else happen that way. It makes Jamie running down south less futile. The only narrative point of that was so Tyrion could talk about love, basically.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Matt D
To add the word "increasingly" since I already stated that I was dubious.

[Craig H]

Only other nitpick from the finale and it's not a big one, but it's the scene with all the leaders. Tyrion speaks and Grey Worm shouts him down and says he's done enough talking.

Grey Worm then proceeds to let Tyrion talk even more, to the point where he helped them choose a new King.

[Brian Fowler]

Not having the bells ring completely changes the arc of Dany. Like, there's no reason for Jon to kill her. 

[RonL21]

The Starks really had the advantage in that High Lord meeting. Their uncle and first cousin all had a seat. Not to mention Gendry, Sam, Ser Daavos, and Brienne

[Craig H]

Just now, Matt D said:

I'm dubious about the Bran thing, if only because his first act is letting his sister break off the North. I bet there'd be plenty of people who wouldn't look past the fact he's a Stark and feel like all of this smells fishy. Most of Westeros is not going to go for the whole "three-eyed raven" bullshit. 

Someone else is rising up within the year (probably Yara again; they can't help themselves). 

I think most of Westeros is like this:

Person 1: Man! Did you hear that shit with the dragon lady and her dragon and army? She blew up ALL of Kings Landing! And then she was ready to come do the same everywhere else!

Person 2: No way! Then what?

Person 1: Well, remember Ned Stark's bastard son? Kills her. Not even bullshitting you.

Person 2: Shut the fuck up. So now who's king?

Person 1: You're not going to believe this...Need Stark's crippled son! I can't even make this shit up.

Person 2: For real? Daaamn. Well, at least he isn't going to ride on a dragon and kill us all. Speaking of... Where's the dragon?

[Brian Fowler]

3 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I'm increasingly dubious about the Bran thing, if only because his first act is letting his sister break off the North. I bet there'd be plenty of people who wouldn't look past the fact he's a Stark and feel like all of this smells fishy. Most of Westeros is not going to go for the whole "three-eyed raven" bullshit. 

Someone else is rising up within the year (probably Yara again; they can't help themselves). 

So here, I think the best move is to have Jamie convince Cersei to ring the bells somehow on their way out, and then have everything else happen that way. It makes Jamie running down south less futile. The only narrative point of that was so Tyrion could talk about love, basically.

Let Yara try. They've lost the Iron Fleet, and the Greyjoys always get beat anyway. Without a dragon to force loyalty, the North is almost impossible to actually control from King's Landing if the Lord of Winterfell, Warden of the North, etc isn't loyal to the crown. It's too big, too remote, and too set in it's ways.

Although I could see Dorne wanting independence again.

[Matt D]

1 minute ago, Brian Fowler said:

Let Yara try. They've lost the Iron Fleet, and the Greyjoys always get beat anyway. Without a dragon to force loyalty, the North is almost impossible to actually control from King's Landing if the Lord of Winterfell, Warden of the North, etc isn't loyal to the crown. It's too big, too remote, and too set in it's ways.

Although I could see Dorne wanting independence again.

I'd read the Timothy Zahn EU novel about Davos having to begrudgingly fight Yara.

[TheVileOne]

I guess it was an ending that worked for the series but I still don't feel like they earned it with how bad the writing has been for the last two seasons.

Why is the lords of Westeros deciding who is king any better than a line of direct succession based on blood? Why does Sansa get to declare independence and none of the other kingdoms? Why is that not a problem and everyone just goes along with it?

Bran as king seems like a bad idea. Just saying. Do you want a computer to be king and to rule over you? Thought so. 

I think what I find most hilarious more than anything all the stupid theories and bullshit that YouTubers and theorists came up with for years about where it might go and important things that could matter...literally none of it happened and none of it mattered.

Just like with Last Jedi  .

I am not and never have been a fan of the show. I mainly watched it for the shared experience and to see what people were talking about.

What I will remember the most about this show: Amazing production values, quality acting, sets, visuals, music and costumes comparable and even better than some cinematic productions that are nigh unprecedented and still unmatched for most TV shows. And some of the worst writing for such a show this big that I have ever seen.

On with The Witcher.

 

 

[Brian Fowler]

There wasn't really a bloodline successor available. Jon, technically, but he didn't want it and if they tried he would've been executed, starting a war. Gendry probably has the next best claim, but, the Barateon line to the crown was broken.

Blood succession is always risky, because of Kings like Joffery or Aerys. At least the council of Lords has a chance to avoid that.