Elsalvajeloco Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 I will choose to remember the fun times like when he did the late 80s/early 90s action movie trope of winking/nodding after saving the main protagonist's life in the nick of time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcosLoura Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 The whole taking wives is more related to not having messy heritage issues/external pressures from family squables that could lead into serious issues for The Watch, not really about having sex. Most of the dudes in The Watch go whoring about in Mole's Town (a close village where we saw Gilly some seasons back) or even other places (brothers that go around Westeros recruiting dudes, like the dude that saved Arya way back when in King's Landing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 7 minutes ago, MarcosLoura said: The whole taking wives is more related to not having messy heritage issues/external pressures from family squables that could lead into serious issues for The Watch, not really about having sex. Most of the dudes in The Watch go whoring about in Mole's Town (a close village where we saw Gilly some seasons back) or even other places (brothers that go around Westeros recruiting dudes, like the dude that saved Arya way back when in King's Landing). I am using the all encompassing thing. Either way the show has depicted a woman like Hilly not exactly being safe in the hands of the Night's Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Couple other satisfying deaths of dudes associated with the Nights Watch: Craster and Karl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I'm pretty positive the lingering shot on Olly's building face as he died, and the look of revulsion Jon had in response, was meant to be upsetting and undercut the "yay justice" feel of the scene. If it worked or not is more ymmv 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Olly reminds me of someone who would say "A Puerto Rican man killed my brother" and then goes on to hate all Puerto Ricans. Olly hated all Wildlings. They aren't all bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyWhioux Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 8 hours ago, Craig H said: Let's not act like the Nights Watch are all a bunch of boy scouts. About the only thing they weren't were cannibals. Actually Thorne confessed to having to eat people during Season 1. It was a veteran's ghost story for soft recruits Jon Snow and Sam Tarly, and it was clearly necessity rather than choice, but yeah, it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigertooth Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 10 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said: Olly reminds me of someone who would say "A Puerto Rican man killed my brother" and then goes on to hate all Puerto Ricans. Olly hated all Wildlings. They aren't all bad. The vast majority of Puerto Ricans would never kill anybody. Is there a significant contingent of Wildlings that is/was morally opposed to raiding/pillaging/murdering villagers and farmers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 30 minutes ago, tigertooth said: The vast majority of Puerto Ricans would never kill anybody. Is there a significant contingent of Wildlings that is/was morally opposed to raiding/pillaging/murdering villagers and farmers? Yeah, the entire Wildling culture, as well as the Ironborn for that matter, is based on raiding, pillaging, etc. They live north of The Wall where nothing grows, game is scarce, and life is hard. They'd literally die off if they stopped raiding and pillaging. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Jon Snow in the office of Knight Commander of the Black Watch wants to normalize relations with the Wildlings and somehow the people that react to his treason by stabbing him to death some how end up being the antagonists in this story. But it is Jon so I guess that makes it okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, J.T. said: Jon Snow in the office of Knight Commander of the Black Watch wants to normalize relations with the Wildlings and somehow the people that react to his treason by stabbing him to death some how end up being the antagonists in this story. But it is Jon so I guess that makes it okay. Jon Snow recognizes that the job of The Night's Watch is to protect the realms of men from the Others. The Wildlings are men, and his job is to protect them as much as it is to protect the citizens of Westeros. The Wildlings aren't good people, but they are people none the less. He knows what the job is, the other Black Brothers do not. They Watch cannot beat the Others without the WIldlings, they just don't have the manpower. With the Wildlings, they at least have a fighting chance. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, supremebve said: Jon Snow recognizes that the job of The Night's Watch is to protect the realms of men from the Others. The Wildlings are men, and his job is to protect them as much as it is to protect the citizens of Westeros. The Wildlings aren't good people, but they are people none the less. He knows what the job is, the other Black Brothers do not. They Watch cannot beat the Others without the WIldlings, they just don't have the manpower. With the Wildlings, they at least have a fighting chance. In the event of a full on invasion, the Wildiings will be among the first ones in the path of the lance, so they will end up acting in Westeros's defense whether they want to or not. Jon was not obligated to offers the Wildlings any sort of formal alliance or goodwill. He could just allow them to be the speed bump that slows the Others's southern advance. Either way, the Watch is screwed as the Night King will just use the fallen to add to the size of his army. It just so happens from the television events standpoint that fostering goodwill was a wise move, as Jon doesn't need Wildling aid so much to defend against the Walkers as he needs their help to fend off Ramsay's army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 minute ago, Raziel403 said: You forgot the part where the Night King raises the black guys from the dead and then they attack the white guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 4 hours ago, tigertooth said: The vast majority of Puerto Ricans would never kill anybody. Is there a significant contingent of Wildlings that is/was morally opposed to raiding/pillaging/murdering villagers and farmers? How about the woman we met in S5 E8 who just wanted a better life for her children. Olly would have wanted those kids to starve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 6 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said: How about the woman we met in S5 E8 who just wanted a better life for her children. Olly would have wanted those kids to starve. I'm not saying that's right, but sometimes it's hard for people to let go of past transgressions and past hurts even if it means passing off a whole group of people's actions onto others. To me that's sort of the microcosm for many things in the whole show. People can't let go of their longstanding hatred or their petty desires for the greater good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Is everyone forgetting that the Wildling army had the Watch INCREDIBLY outnumbered? Even after Stannis joined them, the crows were facing such overwhelming odds that a prolonged war would have inevitably seen every single one of them be slaughtered. Joining forces with the Wildlings was pretty much their only option besides oh-so-noble suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 "One man on top of a wall is worth ten men beneath it" - Tywin Lannister. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 1 hour ago, AxB said: "One man on top of a wall is worth ten men beneath it" - Tywin Lannister. Until they get a horn that breaks down the wall. Then that one man is about to have a great fall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 3 hours ago, AxB said: "One man on top of a wall is worth ten men beneath it" - Tywin Lannister. If Stannis wouldn't have shown up exactly when he did, they would have been slaughtered. They didn't have enough people to hold the wall for another attack. They were dead to rights and there is no possible way they could have survived. At the start of the first book, they had less than 1,000 men. That is before the fight with the wights at the Fist of the First Men, before the mutiny at Craster's Keep, and before the battle against the Wildlings at the Wall. When you realize that those men are spread across three different castles, that is not a lot of people. In the books, there are about 40 Night's Watch against 100,000 Wildlings including over 100 mammoths. So even if One man on top of a wall is worth ten men beneath it, they would have all died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Yes. But it is a very big wall. The books do make it clear that the Wildlings best bet for getting south was splitting into smaller parties and trying to climb the wall piecemeal. A frontal assault on the gate at Castle Black is not unlike trying to get round a brick wall by headbutting it until it falls down. There are easier ways, yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 12 minutes ago, AxB said: Yes. But it is a very big wall. The books do make it clear that the Wildlings best bet for getting south was splitting into smaller parties and trying to climb the wall piecemeal. A frontal assault on the gate at Castle Black is not unlike trying to get round a brick wall by headbutting it until it falls down. There are easier ways, yeah? There are 100,000 of them, some of them women and children, it would take years for them to split into small groups and climbing over. The Others are here now, and the wall can't be defended by The Night's Watch. They would have won no matter what they did. The war was over before Stannis showed up, The Wildlings had won. Jon was supposed to be either negotiating their surrender or assassinating Mance Rayder. The Wildlings were taking The Wall that day no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 On 5/11/2016 at 5:43 AM, L_W_P said: I feel like they could have done a whole lot more over the descision to hang Ollie. You could argue that he was a kid following orders, that he was keeping to the oath and that he was doing his sworn duty. On the flip side he was basically second in line for the "Fuck Jon" parade and blatantly set Jon up to be killed. Scumbag move, especially for a kid. Was he brainwashed or was he evil? Was he 'doing the right thing' or was he doing what he was told? I felt like there was alot more character stuff they could do there with Jon not being 100% for hanging him. It would have made a nice parallel with Robb killing Karstark. I absolutely get where you're coming from here, but it's wholly consistent with the show. Intention doesn't matter. Circumstance doesn't matter. In another story, Ned's nobility would have created a proactive aura around him; Robb's young love would have raised him to higher ground; Dany's thrust for freedom would have made her unassailable; Tyrion would have been accepted and embraced for his defense of King's Landing; and yes, Ollie would have been understood and forgiven and given a chance to learn from his mistakes. This world doesn't care. It eats trigger warnings for breakfast. It shits on good intentions and stomps out understanding and grinds context to dust. All that matters is cold, hard consequence, action and reaction, often times trumping lovely things like "interesting nuance." Ollie acted. The world pushed back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigertooth Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 On 5/12/2016 at 10:17 AM, J.T. said: In the event of a full on invasion, the Wildiings will be among the first ones in the path of the lance, so they will end up acting in Westeros's defense whether they want to or not. Jon was not obligated to offers the Wildlings any sort of formal alliance or goodwill. He could just allow them to be the speed bump that slows the Others's southern advance. Either way, the Watch is screwed as the Night King will just use the fallen to add to the size of his army. It just so happens from the television events standpoint that fostering goodwill was a wise move, as Jon doesn't need Wildling aid so much to defend against the Walkers as he needs their help to fend off Ramsay's army. But that last part goes against the "speed bump" theory, right? With the Walkers, the old saying has never been more true: whatever doesn't kill them only makes them stronger. So taking away a "speed bump" is to humanity's advantage. Leaving the Wildlings as the first ones in the path of the lance inevitably leads to the Wildlings becoming the tip of the spear that points south. Has Castle Black sent word to King's Landing that shit's going down? I want to say that was mentioned at some point, but I'd think anybody who saw what happened at Hardhome would be thinking of nothing else. Jon Snow got raised from the dead? Hey, that's neat. So... when are our fucking reinforcements coming??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyWhioux Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 31 minutes ago, tigertooth said: Has Castle Black sent word to King's Landing that shit's going down? I want to say that was mentioned at some point, but I'd think anybody who saw what happened at Hardhome would be thinking of nothing else. Jon Snow got raised from the dead? Hey, that's neat. So... when are our fucking reinforcements coming??? Aemon and Sam mass mailed the seven kingdoms with every carrier raven they had late in Season 3 after Sam killed a White Walker. Stannis was the only one who gave a fuck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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