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Muhammad Ali Passes Away at Age 74 (January 17, 1942 - June 3, 2016)


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3 hours ago, Web Conn said:

Did he also tussle with a whale, knockout lighting and throw thunder in jail?

He does, in fact, drop that line, but it's about a kid.

 

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An excerpt from Ric Flair's book, Re: the trip WCW took to North Korea:

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Because of the ravages of Parkinson's disease, it was difficult to understand Muhammad Ali when he spoke. But at one function, we were sitting at a big, round table with a group of North Korean luminaries when one of the guys started rambling on about the moral superiority of North Korea, and how they could take out the United States or Japan any time they wanted. Suddenly, Ali piped up, clear as a bell, "No wonder we hate these motherfuckers."

My hair practically stood up on my head. "Oh shit," I whispered, "don't start talking now."

 

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This is going to be long and you’re going to read a lot of stuff you’re probably going to disagree with. However, the fact that I don’t give a shit about that made me power through this. Enjoy:

It’s very hard for me to put into the words what Muhammad Ali meant to me. Even though my life came well after the prime of his career, I can say his impact on me directly is still felt to this day as a person. As a hardcore combat sports fan for several years, seeing what he influenced made me want to go research the history of what he touched. Whether it was his transition into the Nation of Islam and being the first visible Black Muslim athlete in North America by becoming Muhammad Ali to being a part of pro wrestling angles, everything seemed to be the most intriguing thing in the world. It wasn’t just the Olympic gold medal win in Rome in 1960 as a light heavyweight, the fights with Liston, Patterson, George Chuvalo, Henry Cooper, Cleveland Williams, the “What’s My Name” fight with Ernie Terrell, Zora Folley, Oscar Bonavena, Jerry Quarry, all three fights with Frazier, the Rumble in the Jungle with Foreman, the fight with Wepner, the controversial Ken Norton fights, the upset in the first Spinks fight and how he somehow rebounded in the 2nd fight, and the dreaded Holmes fight. The true historians of boxing have covered that more accurately than I could ever do on a message board. The resume speaks for itself. The books and the must watch documentaries like When We Were Kings, Soul Power, HBO’s Thrilla in Manilla, Ali’s Dozen, and Facing Ali paint a depiction of a man much larger than the entities that he was an integral piece of. The articles in Sports Illustrated that I still read today that charts his rise to prominence as this colorful, loquacious figure from Louisville named Cassius Clay, the giant underdog who triumphed against the big, bad, and brutal heavyweight champion Sonny Liston, the traveling world champion without a true home, the giant shadow he cast over the sport of boxing while he was absent for three years plus, the return to prominence that only added to the legend he had already created, and how Ali was transcending something that I had never seen in the world of sports. While boxing, pro wrestling, and martial arts existed before and will long after Muhammad Ali, the effortless grace in personality and charisma allowed for figures past, present, and those still to come in those disciplines and endeavors to be infinite.

As a proud black man, I cannot imagine how I could cover how I feel in a concise-yet-thoughtful manner without leaving out everything I truly want to say but cannot articulate at this very moment as I’m typing this. Even though I came to grips during an earlier health scare Ali had some months ago that this day was coming sooner rather than later, I was still reduced to tears this morning as I was overwhelmed with emotion. Sadly, I wasn’t around for the day Joe Louis beat Max Schmeling in their second, historic bout that pretty much made black people across the world jump and shout in the streets. I can only process that through secondary sources, motion picture films, and other historic accounts like from my former History professors who were alive at the time that made it more interesting and almost spine chilling to hear. Also, unfortunately, I wasn’t alive when Ali stood up for a just cause and defied a nation that had been grossly unfair to black people by not stepping foot in Vietnam. I wasn’t there for March 8th, 1971 where the world stood still as two extremely, powerful black men in Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier took to the ring on the biggest stage in the world Madison Square Garden and waged war over not only the crown of the true undisputed heavyweight title (dismissing the title tournament ABC and the WBA put together in 1967-68), but ideology, morality, principles, social norms and equality, classism, and most importantly of all: being black in the United States of America. I dare say no bout, real, fake, or imagined, in the history of the world for me is going to touch what that means for me as a black man. For a boxing match that happened years before I was even a thought in my parents’ minds to touch black people in a way that I don’t think could ever be described makes it incomparable to anything inside of sports and outside of sports. There is no comparison to it. Absolutely none.

That is what makes it hard to condone what Ali said to Frazier during the leadup to that fight (knowing how Frazier contributed to his return and also during the time away from the ring) and the other fights before the first Frazier bout and afterwards against other black people. However, what Ali created even in the worst of attempts and spotlights was an identity that black people were the most vital asset the country had (especially in the inception of the country and then working alongside their captors under this false illusion of equality), had been woefully and wrongfully treated, and taught as if black people were suppose to be engendered to the same philosophies that Caucasians were ascribed to learn. It was something that never existed before in that fashion, but very much needed to exist for the sake of black people. For a race of people who felt imprisoned and still very much feel imprisoned inside of something they had created and probably never receive that proper credit for, the ideas he presented opposed the white, liberal, moderate, and conservative propaganda that only applied to white people. In addition to that, Ali deconstructed and debunked the deceitful and dangerous message of "just assimilate and everything will be just dandy". Someone like William F. Buckley tried to approach Muhammad Ali with that mindset, but Ali’s determination, strength, and resolve along with the longevity of his messages destroy that fight to further, prosper from, and maintain white supremacy. Freedom is important in not just speech, thought, and expression, but the freedom to escape the ideas that bound you (along with others in your race) for years that makes it absolutely impossible to enjoy those other indelible freedoms. In a world where blackness was taught to be wrong and in numerous ways today still being taught in more, moderate methods, the pride in being black that Muhammad Ali preached was ultimately different from his predecessors, mentors like Malcolm X and Elijah Muhammad, compatriots like Jim Brown, Bobby Mitchell, and Bill Russell, and those he mentored later on. It was radically different than musicians like Soul Brother #1 James Brown, George Clinton, Richie Havens, sister Nina Simone, Isaac Hayes, Bob Marley, and countless others even though the messages were outwardly similar. However, that is what makes it unimpeachable in terms of the outreach even in our time now. Black people have different identities that is more than systematic and institutionalized racism, lynchings, beatings, police brutality, passive aggressive racism, jive talk and slang, debt enslavement, poverty, light skinned vs. dark skin debates, persecution for being black, welfare, children out of wedlock, the absurd cries of black and black crime when every race kills their own, and affirmative action. There is beauty in being black as opposed to what the media is going to present as “their” truth and the whole truth. In actuality, those who become educated, whether it is in the streets, the classrooms, or both, who refuse to be deceived and are educated in their background and their history are the truth. There is no need to be presented with something you already know. Black people are the purveyors of culture and what we live in today and cannot be duplicated as much as people hate or are afraid to admit. I am not and will say that to my dying breath. That’s what Muhammad Ali wanted as much people are going to present their hot takes saying otherwise and have presented already when he passed on Friday night.

As a result, that is why Muhammad Ali left in a time where we (black people) need an unflinching, heroic figure like him. In times where you can have others who can be easily bought off and convinced to hide from their blackness in favor of a paycheck, we need that face of a movement that isn’t trying to preach a message that has been passed off as what is easily agreeable and comfortable for others. The one thing I disagree with Ali on is calling people Uncle Toms. Not for the reason of blacks shouldn’t call people “Uncle Toms”. The problems I had with Ali in what he was saying to black opponents was more layered in nature, that I don’t think people that are not black could identify with. My problem is that Uncle Tom was the hero of the story. There are people within our race that are not heroes in any shape, form, or stretch of the imagination. I am not saying we should cast them off into the ether. However, if you’re going to preach something that maligns your own people with either ambiguity or no sincere attempt to be constructive, black people do not need you. Not at all.

We needed Muhammad Ali and need him today. Not just the physical manifestation. His importance is more powerful than human bodies that can easily be broken down, injured, crippled, and erode away within a set number of years. It’s not asking for black athletes, entertainers, musicians, and what-have-you to risk their fortune and reputations to be black and provide guidance for others. The thing is…you are black whether it’s 1/8, ¼, 1/2, full blooded, 1/3, and any drop that can be counted. Whereas others want to claim something else when it comes to their ethnicity, race and what they truly identify with, we are what we define each other as and that is being black. No more and no less. Therefore, it takes precedence over everything you’re trying to build, have built already, and plan to build. Moreover, it’s innate and comes with the foundation of everything you build.

Know this: our leaders are not elected, selected, or voted on. Our process is the truth you reveal within yourself and to the people. It is the strengths and weaknesses you’ve shown us and how you continue to battle the wickedness that tries to encroach on what we know to be the facts. Success is always fleeting. When it comes to black culture and progress, “selfishness” in reference to black people doing something for black people (whether it’s mutual or not) is something that has been made to be hideous or unacceptable.  Yet, Muhammad Ali time after time in the faces of humiliation, corruption, derision, disloyalty, treachery, dishonesty, apathy, hate, embarrassment, and sheer adversity unapologetically proved that assertion couldn’t be any further from the truth. Thus, with absolutely no hesitation at all, I can say Muhammad Ali is my hero.

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In part to show my wife what all the fuss is about we watched/rewatched WHEN WE WERE KINGS to show the good side of Ali and the HBO Documentary on the third Frazier fight to show the bad side.

It's hard to imagine a single another sporting event that could reach into the political moment as much as a title fight could back then when individual competitors identities and fighting styles could symbolize so much: class identity or race or any number of things. That didn't start with Ali, it goes back at least through to Dempsey and probably real fight fans could carry it back further...but  he may be the last American fighter who could do that.

Is there anything close to that today? 

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5 hours ago, piranesi said:

In part to show my wife what all the fuss is about we watched/rewatched WHEN WE WERE KINGS to show the good side of Ali and the HBO Documentary on the third Frazier fight to show the bad side.

It's hard to imagine a single another sporting event that could reach into the political moment as much as a title fight could back then when individual competitors identities and fighting styles could symbolize so much: class identity or race or any number of things. That didn't start with Ali, it goes back at least through to Dempsey and probably real fight fans could carry it back further...but  he may be the last American fighter who could do that.

Is there anything close to that today? 

I think most of the popular HW champions in boxing symbolized something to that era they fought in. However, I think what is imperative to understand about Ali is that he brought out that not only a nation was in deep turmoil, but an entire race of people had been marginalized to the point where it made no sense to believe they were under the same policies as others. Whereas Dempsey was extremely popular and connected with other famous figures and Joe Louis at one point was the most famous athlete on the planet, the ramifications were serious and pervasive with Ali. Besides maybe Vitali Klitschko being like a distant second with what happened in the Ukraine over the last few years (keep in mind, Vitali was basically semi retired heading into retirement), he was the only notable heavyweight champion who was willing to openly politicize his career at the risk of losing something valuable.

I think if you look at everything surrounding the Foreman fight in Zaire and the third fight with Frazier, you have two humongous political bouts that symbolize sort of a bubble that boxing found itself in. If you go back and research a lot of the fights that Ali had and was suppose to have, you're going to see people willing to bankroll a Ali fight in Brazil (I believe Mike Weaver in a 165k seat stadium after the post Spinks II retirement) and other exotic places. So for Ali to fight in an African country fresh from colonial rule, that didn't seem out of sorts even though in hindsight it certainly does (Mobutu, Don King being who he is, the huge concert during the postponement, etc.). Prize fighting was looked at in a much different light. Boxing was suppose to have a level of pomp and circumstance. However, Ali in all his glory was able to contextualize why fighting in Zaire was important. 

While I believe the Frazier fight in MSG in '71 was perhaps the biggest sporting event of all time, the third fight in Manila was perhaps the most legacy defining fight of those three fights for Ali. It was clear by then that Ali wasn't the same fighter he was before. Given the conditions of the fight, Ali took an absurd and ungodly amount of punishment and so did Frazier. However, whereas Frazier was never able to recapture the magic of his early career, there was no way Ali was going to be the same person inside or outside of the ring afterwards. I think that was the last notable heavyweight bout that harkened back to the days of just long, drawn out, brutal fighting. For Ali to win with a piece of his soul left in the ring that morning in Manila, the absolute last thing you could do is question the validity of Ali's career and how big a heart the man possessed. You can look at Holmes, Michael Spinks, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, and the Klitschkos and question who they faced, the timing of certain bouts, and the opponent choices to some extent. You cannot do that for Muhammad Ali after that bout.

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Except that the Ali camp thought Manilla was going to be an easy payday but Frazier had other ideas. 

That said, it's weird to think that so much of what was a golden era of heavyweight boxing revolves so much around third-world dictators which just speaks to what a carnival the sport has always been. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Josh Mann said:

Except that the Ali camp thought Manilla was going to be an easy payday but Frazier had other ideas. 

That said, it's weird to think that so much of what was a golden era of heavyweight boxing revolves so much around third-world dictators which just speaks to what a carnival the sport has always been. 

 

 

Considering how Ali's career was managed after that and the state he appeared to be in financially in the last 2-3 years of his fighting career, there weren't going to be too many easy paydays including that specific Frazier fight. Watch the post fight ruckus after Holmes vs. LeDoux where Ali tries to confront Holmes and struggles to cut a promo afterwards. You could tell that was a put up job and that it's clearly a money thing.

The aftermath of the third Frazier fight is probably one of the first instances (at least as far as I can remember) where people were extremely nervous that someone continued fighting well beyond their prime. Obviously you had various comebacks before in boxing prior to the back end of Ali's career, but nothing that made people seriously think about the punishment someone had endured and compiled in that way.

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I don't know how to really put into words how much of a fan I was of Ali. I did a report on him in the third grade, I've always been a fan of his going back on youtube or whatever and watching his fights plus the man could talk and was captivating as all hell. The older I got the more I realized how impactful and important Ali was especially standing up against being drafted and the Vietnam War sacrificing the prime of his career for his beliefs.As someone else stated and I can't remember who, he wasn't perfect he said somethings about Joe Louis I didn't agree with but he truly was The Greatest.

I wanted to post this because I think this sums up who Ali was and how people revered him. The audience is silent because the are listening intently to wat Ali is saying and Arsenio, Tyson and Sugar ray are all giddy and excited to just be sitting next to and talking to Ali.

  

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I was wondering when somebody would reflect the mainstream attitude Ali was met with in the '60s. I'm sure he's got lots of company.

Best part:

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3. Daniel is the same man who once sent a letter to the Knox County Board of Education asking what the “purpose” was of elementary school students learning about the Civil Rights Movement.

 

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I had a sick feeling in my stomach on Thursday that Ali might not live through his hospital stay.

RIP to the Greatest in and out of the ring.  A master of the sweet science and a bastion of stewardship to his fellow man.

Ali is my hero.  Present fucking tense.  He will always live on in my heart.

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I believe in the phrase "Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one but some stink worse than others."  That guy's opinion smells like sewage to me, fuck that guy.

They're doing a live stream of his memorial service on TV around 2:30 today.  I'm going to try and catch what I can at work.

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