Extreme Rules VIII

[Burgundy LaRue]

8 minutes ago, Chaos said:

No, I'm just saying there's booking a guy as super human and then there's booking a guy like you booked Roman last night. Dude should have been out for ages with that chair beating, much less have the strength to overcome the soreness from said attack to leap up that high in the air to hit a spear.

It was awful both from a believable and a base wrestling psychology/selling aspect.

You missed where Reigns literally just fell on top of Styles for the pin.  That was sold as pure exhaustion, with the Spear being the last thing Reigns had in his tank.  And by then, Styles was spent, too.

Reigns sells a lot more than most guys in his position.  Cena would have pinned Styles looking fresh as a daisy.  Hogan wouldn't have agreed to taking all that offense in the first place. Reigns actually worked a real match and looked half-dead at the end.

[cwoy2j]

Quote

It doesn't make AJ Styles, a guy who has been in the WWE for like what barely 5 months look better. He has had more losses than wins since his tenure.

No he doesn't.

 

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/aj-styles-752.html?prom_id=2

[(BP)]

20 minutes ago, Kyuubi said:

Did I say AJ carried Roman? No, I said he bumped like a maniac and made the match interesting. That is not carrying. I have never seen a carry job that results in a great match. I don't like Roman Reigns because he is boring. There is nothing spectacular about him throwing around AJ Styles, a dude he has 50 pounds on. I also am annoyed that, again, AJ went through his entire moveset and hit his big moves, and Roman still kicked out. Just like everyone had a problem with at Wrestlemania. It doesn't make AJ Styles, a guy who has been in the WWE for like what barely 5 months look better. He has had more losses than wins since his tenure. And this not a CM Punk vs Samoa Joe situation because we know creative has the attention span of a flea.

If you have to edit out boos and take out signs and you go to move is to pair him with guys who are great and are also over, then he is not the guy. I am sorry. If there are great guys who are also over, both of which Roman is neither(he is growing you say,well we got a fuck ton of great guys right now), then give them the title. Why not give AJ the tiitle? Because it is too soon? Why not give guys like Cesaro, the Miz, Kevin Owens, and Sami Zayn a shot? All of these guys actually have characters and while none of them are great promos(neither is Roman), you don't have to be in this era. It is not a requirement anymore. There are 1 0 guys who have better characters and are better wrestlers on the roster right now and I am not talking about NXT. Why is there so much fucking investment into Roman?

They want him to be on top and there's already a precedent set for an ace who was consistently booed and grew into an elite level worker by learning on the job in main events. 

[SirSmUgly]

I don't see many people saying that Styles carried Reigns. There was like one guy here on the first two pages. Reigns being really good isn't exactly some fringe opinion here. It is at sites like Wreddit and Cageside Seats, but who cares? The opinions of most of the folks who post at those places are flat-out fucking terrible in general. 

[Patrick B.]

Wrestling fans, in general, have just hit the threshhold where they just collectively decided that they're all going to be complete gaping cunts to each other.

[JCM]

I caught the main event, and it was completely fucking awesome. Just about as good a match in that style is going to be in WWE, and an A+ performance from both guys. Seeing Roman in a match like that makes it even shitter that they botched his face push. There's something seriously wrong if AJ isn't kept at the main event level going forward. He's been the best worker on the main roster this year, and is a perfect fit for the modern WWE main event style. At least Seth got rid of that stupid blonde streak. That alone will make him a little more tolerable.

Roman's Black Tiger bomb was too great. That has to be a big match move for him going forward. Also not one of the announcers knew what a fucking Black Tiger bomb was. Razor's Edge into a sit out powerbomb has such a nice ring to it. Oh wait no it doesn't.

[SirSmUgly]

1 hour ago, The Natural said:

Kevin Owens is my favourite to win the Money in the Bank Ladder match. Other contenders: a New Day member, likely Kofi, Dean Ambrose and maybe Sami Zayn?

I think that it's going to be Owens, and I think that he'll be the guy to beat Reigns, maybe at Summerslam after Reigns beats Cena. I think they're high on him, and he's the best pure heel they have right now. 

[Kyuubi]

8 minutes ago, cwoy2j said:

No he doesn't.

 

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/aj-styles-752.html?prom_id=2

16-8 minus the dark matches and liveshow events. I could say that most of the matches he won were tag team matches, but you are correct.

Just now, (BP) said:

They want him to be on top and there's already a precedent set for an ace who was consistently booed and grew into elite level worker by learning on the job in main events. 

John Cena sells merch and tickets. Roman does not.

And fuck man, how cynical do you have to be to be okay that a company who is trying to ear people's hard earned money can flat out ignore customer's opinion on their product? It is not like customer's in this are uninformed patients or shit and this is not a competitive form of entertainment where the results are not predetermined.  Because WWE has precedent in ignoring the fans so that makes it okay to ignore fans? Well, let's examine that time period. Before that time period, what happened? WWE had virtually no competition. And during it, the Independent scene grew. ROH started from a gym with no air conditioning to having their own weekly broadcast. TNA might be the most stupid phoenix promotion in wrestling, but they grew and also fell. NJPW gained prominence and Lucha Underground still exists. Ignoring the fans did not help the WWE. It created a demand for different avenues and now we have them. Instead of actually being better than them, they resort in buying the talent from them(hell they actually offered the entire Lucha Underground roster a contract in development). Yeah, ignoring fans certainly is not "best for business."

[evilwaldo]

3 minutes ago, Kyuubi said:

16-8 minus the dark matches and liveshow events. I could say that most of the matches he won were tag team matches, but you are correct.

John Cena sells merch and tickets. Roman does not.

And fuck man, how cynical do you have to be to be okay that a company who is trying to ear people's hard earned money can flat out ignore customer's opinion on their product? It is not like customer's in this are uninformed patients or shit and this is not a competitive form of entertainment where the results are not predetermined.  Because WWE has precedent in ignoring the fans so that makes it okay to ignore fans? Well, let's examine that time period. Before that time period, what happened? WWE had virtually no competition. And during it, the Independent scene grew. ROH started from a gym with no air conditioning to having their own weekly broadcast. TNA might be the most stupid phoenix promotion in wrestling, but they grew and also fell. NJPW gained prominence and Lucha Underground still exists. Ignoring the fans did not help the WWE. It created a demand for different avenues and now we have them. Instead of actually being better than them, they resort in buying the talent from them(hell they actually offered the entire Lucha Underground roster a contract in development). Yeah, ignoring fans certainly is not "best for business."

Yes, how cynical do YOU have to be?

12 minutes ago, Patrick B. said:

Wrestling fans, in general, have just hit the threshhold where they just collectively decided that they're all going to be complete gaping cunts to each other.

I would say that goes all the way back to the days of Jenk's old forum on Delphi.

[Patrick B.]

They(and any wrestling company) can do whatever they want.  Let the business side of things decide who's doing it "right" and "wrong".  There's zero point to getting worked up about stuff.

As for fans, I hesitate to talk to them in person and try to keep to myself at live events unless it's someone I know pretty well.  Don't feel like getting into arguments.

[The Natural]

10 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

I think that it's going to be Owens, and I think that he'll be the guy to beat Reigns, maybe at Summerslam after Reigns beats Cena. I think they're high on him, and he's the best pure heel they have right now. 

I agree. If it comes to pass, Roman Reigns will have had the MITB cashed three times on him:

Seth Rollins at WrestleMania XXXI

Sheamus at Survivor Series 2015

Kevin Owens at SummerSlam 2016.

[JohnnyJ]

I thought Reigns/Styles both looked great last night. I have a feeling that Styles losing wont hurt him. He's over because he's great in the ring and wins/losses wont take that away from him. 

The problem with Reigns has never been his work. The audience is sick of the main event picture revolving around one guy. So anyone placed by management in that role would be in a very difficult position. Reigns ascent was then so calculated and inorganic that the inevitable backlash was that much worse. Which puts Reigns in an impossible position. To many fans, his very existence is why WWE is not what they want it to be. I don't know how you overcome that. 

 

 

[Firebreaker Chip]

1 hour ago, JRGoldman said:

I do remember when the Styles Clash was an instant death finisher....in TNA. It has never gotten a pin in the WWE. Curtis Axel kicked out of it. I don't see why it's a leap that it is treated as a believable nearfall and nothing more.

This is flagrantly untrue btw

[(BP)]

2 minutes ago, Firebreaker Chip said:

This is flagrantly untrue btw

I remember an Angle/Styles tv match that legitimately may have had four or five Clash kick outs (along with every kind of finisher reversal imaginable twice.) It went almost an hour, and Hogan was on the ramp the entire time pretending to mark out. There must be a hell dimension where that match is still happening. 

[evilwaldo]

7 minutes ago, JohnnyJ said:

I thought Reigns/Styles both looked great last night. I have a feeling that Styles losing wont hurt him. He's over because he's great in the ring and wins/losses wont take that away from him. 

The problem with Reigns has never been his work. The audience is sick of the main event picture revolving around one guy. So anyone placed by management in that role would be in a very difficult position. Reigns ascent was then so calculated and inorganic that the inevitable backlash was that much worse. Which puts Reigns in an impossible position. To many fans, his very existence is why WWE is not what they want it to be. I don't know how you overcome that. 

 

 

Yet, they ironically cheered Rollins.

[Burgundy LaRue]

Yeah, people seem to forget that Rollins hasn't exactly been pushed down the card at any point, either.  He's clearly going to be a permanent main event guy for years to come.

[Trocar Slush Weasel]

10 minutes ago, JohnnyJ said:

The problem with Reigns has never been his work. The audience is sick of the main event picture revolving around one guy. So anyone placed by management in that role would be in a very difficult position. Reigns ascent was then so calculated and inorganic that the inevitable backlash was that much worse. Which puts Reigns in an impossible position. To many fans, his very existence is why WWE is not what they want it to be. I don't know how you overcome that. 

Easy, you have John Cena feud with Roman.

 

[JCM]

13 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

Main event dragged in places, but Styles' insane bumping was fun to watch and I feel sorry for the state of his tailbone right now.  Yet again, what could have been a decent match was let down with a piss poor ending.  Anderson and Gallows get taken out easily and Roman kicks out of countless chair-assisted finishers only to win with a single spear?  This was some HHH at mania level finisher killing.

 

The match never came close to dragging, Roman kicked out of one chair assisted non finisher after an Uso gave him time to recover, AJ was hit with multiple big moves including a backdrop and powerbomb through tables, a spear on the floor, a Superman punch, the Usos finish, and a mid air spear but we'll just act like AJ jobbed to one move. There was no finisher killing since the Styles Clash has never been AJ's primary finisher in WWE. Meanwhile his real finish the Phenomenal forearm was protected. Good lord man.

[Craig H]

I love Seth Rollins. I don't think he's a terrible promo and I think some of the lousyness has to do with being in a shit sandwich of a booking situation. I really hope HHH and Steph stay as far away from Seth as possible. I was super happy to see him return last night. 

I'm not sure where AJ goes from here. Seems like a waste to spend all of that money to feed him to Roman. At least the Club beat the Usos, but that introduces another odd scenario where the Club look to have won their feud and AJ lost his.

I'm sure we'll get AJ vs Seth for #1 contender, which Seth is likely to win, right?

[JohnnyJ]

17 minutes ago, evilwaldo said:

Yet, they ironically cheered Rollins.

It's the #NeverRoman movement.

[Leonidas]

What I really liked:

Rusev making Kalisto humble with that Accolade.

Jericho dieing for our entertainment on those thumbtacks and the subsequent sell job. 

AJ Styles the human rag doll, he made Reigns look like Lesnar that's how good his bumping was.

The fan's Roman's Anoa'ing sign, slightly xenophobic, but genius wordplay nevertheless.

[SirSmUgly]

37 minutes ago, evilwaldo said:

Yet, they ironically cheered Rollins.

Yeah, but Rollins does a lot of flips and kewl movez at a mile a minute, which makes him a great wrestler, so his push is okay, unlike Reigns, who lets things breathe and is a hoss, and thus is a bad wrestler.

[JCM]

5 hours ago, MonteCarl said:

What about the possibility of a "first time ever" Women's MitB match? Throw in Natalya/Dana/Paige/Sasha/Becky/Naomi. Could be done and would be interesting, I think, should Naomi and Sasha be OK and cleared by then. Though if the reports of them keeping Sasha off TV because they don't want her to get hurt by SummerSlam are true, they may not want to put her in that type of match.

Dana just came off a long stint on the DL, Paige missed time due to a concussion this year, Naomi has been out hurt, Sasha just supposedly suffered a concussion, and they just recently had Emma work through a hurt back until it gave out. So I would say it sounds like the worst idea ever unless you really want a Charlotte vs Stephanie match at Summerslam.

 

Part of me can't help but think this Rusev rebuild is so Cena can win the US title back as soon as he returns. Hope I'm wrong on that one.

[Patrick B.]

...naah.

[Jrag]

Every star gets cheered after returning from an injury. You dopes hating on Rollins AND hating on the fans for cheering him is mind numbing.  It's a cold world I guess, but I was happy to see him.

Solid show from what I saw.  Sami's best main roster performance and a great main event.  Can't ask for much more than that.