MORELOCK Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 1 hour ago, JRGoldman said: Cena based on sheer output is way ahead of Austin Cena crushes Austin under the weight of so many tremendous TV matches There's certainly a discussion to be had, but please stop acting like it isn't close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEN! Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 2 hours ago, Dewar said: They can still bring in Sid and Vader in flip flops. They just fired Hornswoggle though. Who's going to blow up John Cena's boat while he plays volleyball with the kids? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spritenaut 32 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Neville? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLaw Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Kalisto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Jojo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewar Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I was going to go with Balor. Put the Demon makeup on him, and let him blow some shit up. Bring him back a few months later to chant "Spin the wheel, make the deal". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstout Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 10 hours ago, ChesterCopperpot said: Brock vs Owens was announced for that Hawaii show alongside the Cena/Nakamura match Pardon my complete ignorance, but will the Hawaii show be a Network special (I'm guessing?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 30 minutes ago, MORELOCK said: There's certainly a discussion to be had, but please stop acting like it isn't close. I conceded and made mention of the fact that their career output was similar in the eyes of many. I even brought up the GWE, for whatever that is worth. I also prefaced the exact lines you quoted with "I think". Please stop cherry picking lines within a larger point to make me sound as though I'm putting forth my opinion as fact, and being dismissive of others. I feel as though I've been firm in my beliefs but generally encouraging of the conversation, because like you, I have found it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MADCAP Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 4 hours ago, Jrag said: I would put Cena/Punk MITB up there with any match in WWE history. They haven't come close to recapturing that atmosphere since. Bryan's run to WM was probably the closest, but everything aligned so perfectly for that MITB match. It's the highlight of both Cena and Punk's careers. Maybe Punks, but this definitely wasn't Cena's definitive match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, jstout said: Pardon my complete ignorance, but will the Hawaii show be a Network special (I'm guessing?) They almost have to, don't they? I mean why would you not put Cena vs Nakamura and Brock vs Owens on TV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanChessgame Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I'd be getting really excited about Brock/Owens, but after Brock's matches with Harper and Ambrose were basically squashes with 15 german suplexes I'm not getting my hopes up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 55 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said: What does Cena do better than Austin? That's not meant to be a snarky rhetorical question. Off the top of my head, I just can't think of one positive that Cena has in-ring that is a bigger positive for him than for Austin. And I think Cena is great and an elite worker when it comes down to it, so it's not blind Cena hate, either. I am going to have to disagree. Austin/Angle from Summerslam '01 is great and definitely re-watchable, and I'll go out on a limb and say that it, not either of the Austin/Bret matches, is Austin's best WWF/E match ever, even with the cop-out finish. I absolutely forgot about his work with Angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 57 minutes ago, BEN! said: They just fired Hornswoggle though. Who's going to blow up John Cena's boat while he plays volleyball with the kids? It's just a skit, so Daniel Bryan should be good to go. Backup plan: Styles will need something to do after Extreme Rules, so there you go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincey Greene Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 The comp for Cena isn't Austin - who wasn't the direct line from Hogan, he was the direct line from Savage and Bret as the Main Event Guy Who Could Work - it's Rock. He's a way better worker than Rock but not bigger. Not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeCaesar Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I don't think its really accurate to sum up Austin as Man Event Guy Who Could Work (along with your Shawn Michaels and your Kurt Angles). Raw 1998 could have easily just been re-titled Steve Austin & Friends for as much as the show revolved about him week after week. I don't think The Rock ever truly ever became The Guy. By 2000, when he peaked before the increasing time off for movies, he was one more hot act on a roster where everyone was over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 1 hour ago, jstout said: Pardon my complete ignorance, but will the Hawaii show be a Network special (I'm guessing?) It's been alleged to be Bash at the Beach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 6 hours ago, Craig H said: I see this thread has become the "Make contentious statements about 'X'" thread. X Japan was a way better band than X (from Los Angeles). 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I don't know if Cena has a proper comp from the attitude era, but I think the closest fit is actually Taker. Stand-alone guy that succeeded through sheer force of will and a loyalty and dedication to the business that's nearly unmatched. Also supremely talented and charismatic, but his combination of work ethic and attitude are what really set him apart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 2 hours ago, JRGoldman said: I conceded and made mention of the fact that their career output was similar in the eyes of many. I even brought up the GWE, for whatever that is worth. I also prefaced the exact lines you quoted with "I think". Please stop cherry picking lines within a larger point to make me sound as though I'm putting forth my opinion as fact, and being dismissive of others. I feel as though I've been firm in my beliefs but generally encouraging of the conversation, because like you, I have found it interesting. My "cherry-picking" was actually very kind in cutting out the most dismissive part of what you said: 4 hours ago, JRGoldman said: The people defending Austin are doing so based on qualitative things; his charisma, his aura. Lots of people are arguing against your point and citing the matches - not just the intangibles. Your position wouldn't seem as contentious if you weren't making these kinds of statements, which is all I was saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie M. Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 From listening to Austin's podcast for so long, I think he ultimately valued having the right match for his character, the storyline and the situation while working as hard as he could to make it the best match he could within those parameters. The people wanted more brawling type matches from Stone Cold and when you watch any of them, he's always busting his ass to make them as good as they can be. Cena's best stuff is as good as anyone's in company history and it usually happened when there was a heated issue between him and the other guy and the match is about that issue (Umaga and Punk come to mind immediately). There's also a lot of stuff out there that is structured and worked in a way where it comes off as begging the audience to please love John Cena. It's not really his fault because we've seen them do the exact same thing with Roman Reigns. It's no surprise that they've dropped a lot of that in the AJ feud and it's probably the most interesting work he's done since The Shield. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 It's an absolute fact that Austin had to change his style after his injury. It wasn't so much from a character driven standpoint because he was on fire leading up to it and stealing the show everytime he hit the ring. He could barely turn his head without moving his shoulders. Towards the later years when he became bionic (oh the irony!) He really regressed to just being a caricature. Cena is good and dedicated to his craft. I don't think he's on the level of Austin ring wise, but instead has always reminded me more of a modern day Sting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorceressKnight Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 3 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said: It's an absolute fact that Austin had to change his style after his injury. It wasn't so much from a character driven standpoint because he was on fire leading up to it and stealing the show everytime he hit the ring. He could barely turn his head without moving his shoulders. Towards the later years when he became bionic (oh the irony!) He really regressed to just being a caricature. Cena is good and dedicated to his craft. I don't think he's on the level of Austin ring wise, but instead has always reminded me more of a modern day Sting. But even that change of his style has to be put as a big reason Austin was so great. The fact Austin was one of the better technical wrestlers in the US in the early '90s, got this injury- and managed to not only successfully change his style, but managed to become one of the best brawlers in North America- is a big plus to Austin's side for how good he is (with very few wrestlers managing to successfully change their style, let alone change it and equal or surpass their work in the prior style.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Austin even as a brawler was extremely limited. He wasnt Stan Hansen.. more like Ronnie Garvin out there. He was great because of his character. His aura drove the match - not his ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorceressKnight Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 37 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said: Austin even as a brawler was extremely limited. He wasnt Stan Hansen.. more like Ronnie Garvin out there. He was great because of his character. His aura drove the match - not his ability. Even then, that ties into the fact that aura DOES count a lot for what makes a great match a great match- intangibles can take something to a higher level. Plus, even if he wasn't Stan Hansen, the fact that the late-90s was WAY out of wack regarding top brawlers (to the point where classic, good old-fashioned brawlers were considered worthless, plodding losers- while worthless slugs who could wrestle a hardcore match were seen as world-class brawlers and the best in the industry) does make it so Austin's skill as a brawler was kind of underrated, even at the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Austin didn't even need to have a match over 10 minutes. He was a talking head that would kick punch suplex mudhole kick stunner pin. He was Hogan. You just wanted to get off your ass when you hear the glass and watch him chug beers and flip the bird. Much along the lines as you sang along to Real American and posed along with The Hulkster after he vanquished the freak du jour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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