Marvel Phase III Movie Discussion Thread

[The Natural]

Bloody funny Avengers: Infinity War ending:

 

 

[tbarrie]

I keep meaning to post my rambling thoughts on Infinity War, but I'm probably not going to get around to it, so just one thought on the ending...

Spoiler

Do you suppose when Thanos snapped his fingers, there was a 50% chance he himself would be wiped out? Or did he specifically exclude himself from the cull? Either answer says something interesting about the character IMO.

 

[J.T.]

On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 11:45 AM, tbarrie said:

I keep meaning to post my rambling thoughts on Infinity War, but I'm probably not going to get around to it, so just one thought on the ending...

  Reveal hidden contents

Do you suppose when Thanos snapped his fingers, there was a 50% chance he himself would be wiped out? Or did he specifically exclude himself from the cull? Either answer says something interesting about the character IMO.

 

Spoiler

Since Thanos can harness the power of all of the Infinity Stones at once, the possessor of the Reality Stone is most likely immune from the effects of his own Snap since he is the one bending reality to his own will.

He can choose to exclude himself from the effects of the Snap.

Besides, Thanos going poof makes no sense.  Who would be around to maintain the balance in the new universe if he also turned to ash?

 

 

[tbarrie]

Spoiler

I certainly wasn't questioning whether Thanos had the power to exclude himself from the cull, just whether he would choose to. If he wasn't willing to take his own fair chance of being one of the ones culled, then he's kind of a hypocrite. (And I'm not saying that this would be bad writing or anything.)

 

[Raziel]

It's been a month, do we still need spoilers?  I mean, if you haven't seen it by now...

 

Spoiler

Of course he would exclude himself.  He's completly convinced he's right, that this was the only way, and that he's the only one with the will to see it through.  He wouldn't allow himself to get dusted because it would have to be done all over again.

 

[Zimbra]

Here's my incredibly stupid IW beef:

Spoiler

 

Everybody's gear disappeared when they got dusted except for Bucky's rifle.  What's up with that?  Also, why is he still carrying the same rifle from Civil War instead of some shit-hot Wakandan tech?

 

 

[Matt D]

My impression is that he did not exclude himself and that he was visibly surprised when he lived.

[Raziel]

2 minutes ago, Matt D said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

My impression is that he did not exclude himself and that he was visibly surprised when he lived.

 

Spoiler

I thought the expression was more due to having Stormbreaker stuck in his chest.

 

[Matt D]

In the Soul Stone World, I mean

[Raziel]

Just now, Matt D said:

 

  Hide contents

In the Soul Stone World, I mean

 

Spoiler

Eh, I took that as more relief that he actually pulled it off.

 

That and seeing that young Gamora was the keeper of Soulrealm.

 

[nate]

Watched it with the kid again.

"Did you do it?"

"Yes."

"What did it cost?"

"... everything."

Brrrrrr.

[J.T.]

On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 11:43 AM, Raziel said:

It's been a month, do we still need spoilers?  I mean, if you haven't seen it by now...

If a thread is not designated as a spoiler thread, assume that it is supposed to be spoiler free and remember to use tags.

That is my personal policy.

[Technico Support]

Wait so how does this work going forward?  Wouldn't the next baby born anywhere in the universe upset the balance?  Is there a 50/50 chance of the kid turning to dust as soon as he/she pops out?  Or, if you're of certain religious and/or political persuasions, as soon as the egg is fertilized?  I don't think Thanos thought this through, guys.

[Zimbra]

I assume it's like pruning and he'll have to do it every few million years when populations get back up.

[tbarrie]

What the heck, another Infinity War thought:

Going into the movie, I gave them 50-50 odds of explaining Thanos's actions in previous movies in a satisfying way. And they, well, kind of didn't try. When I left the theatre I still had no idea how his earlier actions were supposed to lead to him obtaining the infinity stones - or if that wasn't his goal, what his actual goal was. So as much as I liked the movie, that was annoying.

I mentioned this to my brother, though, and he made a good point: they established that the MCU Infinity Gauntlet itself was an artifact specially designed to harness the power of the stones. (Unlike in the comics, where it was just the glove he happened to be wearing when he acquired the infinity gems and decided it would be as good a place as any to keep them.) They also established back at the end of Thor: the Dark World that keeping multiple infinity stones in close proximity was dangerous. So presumably, he wasn't actually trying to collect the stones until the gauntlet was ready, and his machinations, again presumably, must have been to weaken and destabilize the people who had the stones so he could collect them more easily when the time came.

Do his earlier actions make sense in that light? Beats me. I may need to rewatch some movies...

 

[J.T.]

11 minutes ago, tbarrie said:

They also established back at the end of Thor: the Dark World that keeping multiple infinity stones in close proximity was dangerous. So presumably, he wasn't actually trying to collect the stones until the gauntlet was ready, and his machinations, again presumably, must have been to weaken and destabilize the people who had the stones so he could collect them more easily when the time came.

In retrospect, it does seem like most of the events of Phase III were Thanos sizing up his quality of opposition and manipulating events so that the stones were in locations he could easily access on his own., but I honestly think that's giving the writers too much credit. 

The stories have been great, but I still have the belief that the whole thing was a Comedy of Errors and that Thanos (pardon the pun) was forced to take matters into his own hands.

[Raziel]

Considering Nidavellir didn't appear untli Dark World, Thanos was just going world by World.  He didn't start attempting to assemble the stones until Avengers, where he gave the resurrected Loki his staff with the Mind Stone in it to get ahold of the Space Stone.   That didn't work, then he had Gamora seek the Soul Stone, then everyone after the Power Stone, which Ronan got then ended up with the Nova Corps.  Then Maleketh took the shot with Aeither, which turned into the Reality Stone.  The Asguardians thought that keeping two stones in the same Vault was bad, so they sent the Reality Stone to the Collector (Thor's theory, in plain sight was safe).  Then the Mind Stone gave Wanda her powers, and was used to create Vision (which is why Wanda could destroy the Mind Stone).  Then Dr. Strange became the keeper of the Time Stone.

 

Until Avengers, Thanos wasn't full on trying, when Nidavellir was around, Loki had "replaced" Odin in Asguard and wasn't watching anything else, so Thanos started his move then.,

[J.T.]

Well, yeah.  Thanos let proxies do the leg work.  He never gained the stones during Phase III, but he was smart enough to let other parties secure them for him.

And in IW, Thanos was also smart enough to take possession of the relatively unprotected stones first because he knew he'd be able to acquire the others easily as the Infinity Gauntlet grew in potency.

In short, if Thanos had gone for the Time Stone first or second by himself, Dr. Strange would probably have whipped his ass.  Strange battled Thanos to a standstill when the mother fucker had three stones at his disposal..

[Raziel]

That's the takeaway.  Thanos had 3 stones, and Strange had him at a Stalemate, the Heroes could've won without Quill's meltdown, and Stark drew blood.  If he had less, he would've lost.  Hell, He had all 5 and Stormbreaker armed Thor blew right through him.   If Carol is supposed to be stronger,  Thanos is gonna have issues.

[Brian Fowler]

There's also the never fully explored implication in AoU that he caused Ultron to happen, possibly with the idea he would weaken the defenses of Earth, making it easier to get back the mind stone and aquire the time stone.

There's also a very subtle implication in Avengers that the mind stone was at least partially controlling Loki.

[Raziel]

That makes sense, since it was Wanda giving Tony the vision of everyone dead at Thanos' hands that prompted him to  use the Mind Stone to create Ultron in the first place, unless it wasn't Thanos doing it and just the Mind Stone, but... yeah. I got to watch AoU again and I'm only up to Thor in my rewatch

[J.T.]

9 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

There's also the never fully explored implication in AoU that he caused Ultron to happen, possibly with the idea he would weaken the defenses of Earth, making it easier to get back the mind stone and aquire the time stone.

Not only that but Ultron itself started off as a global defense AI, so corrupting it and using it to further chip away at The Avengers was a double coup.

[Raziel]

I mean, even *if* AoU didn't happen, Civil War still would've, just differently.  Thanos didn't need to set it up in AoU, Stark and Rogers would've done it themselves anyway.  

[Brian Fowler]

More than that, Tony and Bruce specifically state they were nowhere near finished activating Ultron, and that it suddenly and inexplicably finished itself, but as a killer. Mixed with the post credits scene, I got the impression Thanos somehow made Ultron go online.

[J.T.]

12 minutes ago, Raziel said:

I mean, even *if* AoU didn't happen, Civil War still would've, just differently.  Thanos didn't need to set it up in AoU, Stark and Rogers would've done it themselves anyway.  

The Avengers probably would've gone through creative differences, but AoU was still important because the Hulk Incident made people begin to wonder whether or not the existence of superheroes was worth the risk of the collateral damage caused whenever they showed up to "help."

Again, very interesting to consider but I still think that gives the writers too much credit.  I seriously doubt that the creation of the Sokovian Accords and the genesis of an anti-superhero political climate were deliberate parts of a scheme hatched by Thanos.

Thanos would not give a shit about public opinion doing his work for him.  He'd just go and personally crush any opposition.