Jiji Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Yeaaaah, Emma's not nearly as good as Bayley in any respect outside of demonstrating having power over an opponent/working wimpies, which she ought to be since she's a heel. And wearing silly gloves. She's definitely better at that. I'd take Asuka, Sasha, and Becky over Bayley in terms of in-ring work though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 The only issue with Bayley is that Sasha, Emma, Becky and Asuka are all better in the ring than she is. Great character, really good worker but she's not the best female out of the group. How can you be the fifth best but then win the whole thing? It could happen in college basketball but shouldn't here. Emma and Asuka combined have 1 really good match on their resume for the entire year. This is the stretchiest of stretch arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I don't know, Asuka and Emma had a great match with each other. Asuka/Bayley I'm sure will be awesome. Bayley had two great matches with Sasha. Sasha also had a great match with Becky. I don't see how Bayley is responsible for elevating an entire division when the others have all had equally great matches with one another. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Because Bayley did what none of the others did and took talent nobody jumps up and down with in terms of how good they are and put on some really entertaining matches in the voting period. I also don't see how you did anything to back up your "Bayley was only 5th best among the 5" talking point. That's significantly more under fire then if Bayley is the out right best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 The only issue with Bayley is that Sasha, Emma, Becky and Asuka are all better in the ring than she is. Great character, really good worker but she's not the best female out of the group. How can you be the fifth best but then win the whole thing? It could happen in college basketball but shouldn't here. Emma and Asuka combined have 1 really good match on their resume for the entire year. This is the stretchiest of stretch arguments. Sure but they have the most entertaining squash matches on the roster. Asuka made a match with Cameron entertaining through sheer force. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 The only issue with Bayley is that Sasha, Emma, Becky and Asuka are all better in the ring than she is. Great character, really good worker but she's not the best female out of the group. How can you be the fifth best but then win the whole thing? It could happen in college basketball but shouldn't here. Emma and Asuka combined have 1 really good match on their resume for the entire year. This is the stretchiest of stretch arguments. That's rich coming from you. Or was that someone else bringing the pro-Emma arguments earlier in this tournament? I agree that Bayley has been better than Emma, but then again Emma shouldn't have made it past round 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 And Bayley had a good match with Eva Marie that wasn't a flat out squash like the other good stuff on Asuka and Emmas resume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Because Bayley did what none of the others did and took talent nobody jumps up and down with in terms of how good they are and put on some really entertaining matches in the voting period. That's not true, Sasha's match with Naomi from SD! a month back was very good, the best I've seen from Naomi. Asuka's match with Santana Garrett was very good as well and I know Santana is a seasoned pro but nobody knew who she was when it happened.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 The only issue with Bayley is that Sasha, Emma, Becky and Asuka are all better in the ring than she is. Great character, really good worker but she's not the best female out of the group. How can you be the fifth best but then win the whole thing? It could happen in college basketball but shouldn't here. Emma and Asuka combined have 1 really good match on their resume for the entire year. This is the stretchiest of stretch arguments. That's rich coming from you. Or was that someone else bringing the pro-Emma arguments earlier in this tournament? I agree that Bayley has been better than Emma, but then again Emma shouldn't have made it past round 1. One really good match is the exact same total Rollins had, were as Rollins had a lot of negatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Because Bayley did what none of the others did and took talent nobody jumps up and down with in terms of how good they are and put on some really entertaining matches in the voting period. That's not true, Sasha's match with Naomi from SD! a month back was very good, the best I've seen from Naomi. Asuka's match with Santana Garrett was very good as well and I know Santana is a seasoned pro but nobody knew who she was when it happened.. Plenty of people will tell you that Naomi and Santana are good. Heck, you just acknowledged it in your own argument. NOBODY argues that Eva Maria, Nia Jax, or Carmella is anything better then ok, and for someone like Eva that's a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 And Bayley had a good match with Eva Marie that wasn't a flat out squash like the other good stuff on Asuka and Emmas resume. Yes but there's a difference between booking and ring work. The match with Eva was the definition of smoke and mirrors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 And the Emma squash matches could be argued as "it's really easy to have a good squash match when you just do stiff shit and kick the other persons ass" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLaw Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Expounding on my contentious statement somewhat: Over the past few years, what has been the driving storyline to the Women's Division (at least since Paige/Emma were called up)? It is Bayley's maturation as a from fan to champion while staying true to herself. Sasha has been her main rival, and while you can argue she's the better "worker", Bayley is the protagonist and Sasha's the antagonist. Bayley ultimately prevailed over her counterpart who turned to the bad side showing that good prevails over evil, and the storyline since then has been Bayley proving herself as champion and not just a flash in the pan. Now the story is turning to her fending off a "true worker" in Asuka. Would Sasha and Becky be capable of putting on the same sorts of matches without Bayley? Of course, but Bayley is the person who gave the division its emotional weight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 She's the moral compass sure, but there was an emotional weight without Bayley. The Charlotte/Sasha matches and the Becky challenge all had great emotional drama. And Sasha cried! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 There's no bigger supporter of Naomi and her improvements than I am but it was an example of Sasha bringing someone up to her level. Bayley worked her ass off in that Nia Jax match so I have no issue giving you that. I don't know about the Carmella match I'd have to watch it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Expounding on my contentious statement somewhat: Over the past few years, what has been the driving storyline to the Women's Division (at least since Paige/Emma were called up)? It is Bayley's maturation as a from fan to champion while staying true to herself. Sasha has been her main rival, and while you can argue she's the better "worker", Bayley is the protagonist and Sasha's the antagonist. Bayley ultimately prevailed over her counterpart who turned to the bad side showing that good prevails over evil, and the storyline since then has been Bayley proving herself as champion and not just a flash in the pan. Now the story is turning to her fending off a "true worker" in Asuka. Would Sasha and Becky be capable of putting on the same sorts of matches without Bayley? Of course, but Bayley is the person who gave the division its emotional weight. A+ for your Greggulator parody post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 The night after NXT: Brooklyn the whole crowd was chanting "We Want Sasha!". That's not an argument for Sasha over Bayley, it's an argument against the idea that everything revolves around Bayley.. she's a huge part of the women's roster and I take nothing away from her but I think some of you are getting carried away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 There can be more than one emotional weight in a division. Sasha/Becky was emotional for a different reason than the Sasha/Bayley matches. Meanwhile, my only emotional reaction to AJ Styles matches is "meh". What he does is technically good, but he doesn't make me feel like he's doing anything other than going through the motions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 It sucks that because Gregg capes for everything NXT, someone making a well-considered post gets tagged like that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie M. Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Let's talk a bit more about AJ Styles. He got a great initial pop for a variety of reasons but he's managed to sustain it in non-hardcore fan cities because his work is so good and he just knows how to get himself over. His success may actually lead to people in WWE changing their minds on a guy like Samoa Joe and giving him the one big main roster run that he deserves. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 If AJ keeps this 60/40 I'll be happy. This is proportional voting right? Not winner take all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Let's talk a bit more about AJ Styles. He got a great initial pop for a variety of reasons but he's managed to sustain it in non-hardcore fan cities because his work is so good and he just knows how to get himself over. His success may actually lead to people in WWE changing their minds on a guy like Samoa Joe and giving him the one big main roster run that he deserves. Yeah, I mean again it's not in the voting period but the Y2AJ v. New Day tag titles match was an example of AJ freshening up the whole deal. Look, Big E is a GREAT worker.. Xavier and Kofi are good, Jericho can still be decent etc.. but it's AJ who lifts the entire thing from good to must-watch. Whenever someone wrestles AJ, it's like they are playing against the Warriors. They raise their game another notch or two. The Miz is another decent wrestler but when he's in there with AJ it's the potential to be the match of the night in any arena. That's how great AJ is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorceressKnight Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 And Bayley had a good match with Eva Marie that wasn't a flat out squash like the other good stuff on Asuka and Emmas resume. Yes but there's a difference between booking and ring work. The match with Eva was the definition of smoke and mirrors. Even then, a smoke and mirrors job was the only thing that could help make an Eva match work- and when it's thrown in that the match went past "heat", went past "nuclear heat", and went to "just the very fact that match was going to occur, EVEN BEFORE any possibility of "will Eva win or will Bayley win?", was enough to make pretty much every wrestling fan be willing to fall into outright war for the time between when the match was announced on NXT television and the day the NXT spoilers came out to reveal how the match took place so people could find out Bayley would still be the champion- those have to take place. There were BETTER matches- both men and women- but NO MATCH of 2015 turned every jaded wrestling fan in the IWC into a mark again for one moment in time like Eva Marie/Bayley did, and that is important and should be lauded too. Is Bayley "maybe" fifth best of the NXT women? It's possible. What isn't- the other people did it with the Horsewomen. Three of them made March Madness, and all three have been established were three of the top 8 performers of 2015 from this very tournament. Bayley's getting the same results of those Horsewomen matches with people who aren't completely polished and are on the verge, at best. What's more of a success than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I think you might be going a tad bit overboard in your description of the lead up to Bayley/Eva but I agree it was a fun spectacle. But again, Sasha and Asuka have gotten good matches out of other people also.. Bayley isn't alone in elevating talent. I've beaten that into the ground now so not much else I can say on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamBroken Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 The Sasha matches turned me around from hating Bayley to seeing she's pretty good. March Madness is turning me back around. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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