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[MM16] R3B: BROCK LESNAR vs. AMERICAN ALPHA


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MM16: 3rd RDB - BROCK LESNAR vs. AMERICAN ALPHA  

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  1. 1. CHOOSE ONE



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For all the criticism other wrestlers have gotten for the homogenized WWE style, he's the antidote to that criticism.

That was true for a while, but over the past year, Lesnar's matches have devolved into a homogenized "Brock style" that's really pretty tedious. His act now is just as by-the-numbers as anyone else's.

Bingo. He's thrown very few, if any, new wrinkles into the formula. Initially, it seemed like the only way anybody could get any of their shit in on him was through his own hubris, but now that he's a babyface he doesn't even have that. It's just him missing something or some bland reversal. 

 

Stan Hansen and Vader played the dominant monster so well in their primes. They were so thoroughly terrifying but when the babyface had them on the ropes, you'd see a real vulnerability that isn't there with Brock. Mil Muertes is a guy that is nailing the dominant monster role in today's landscape.

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And that is my problem too. The WWE finds one good thing, then RUNS IT INTO THE GROUND till nobody cares anymore. That's Brock Lesnar matches for me.

Oh wow, a german suplex...how original...oh, a 3 minute squash against a midcarder...that was surely worth whatever Brock is making....

 

I liked Owens vs Cena, then it happened two times more in a very short span and then almost EVERY Cena match had that formula...

 

The only thing that would make me vote Lesnar would have been if he had a 1 on 1 match against Brian Strohhalm.

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How many times must Brock say, "Suplex City, bitch!" in a match? It's almost every time out. Yeah. We get it. Your German Suplex is a devastating weapon. Constantly repeating that line turns something really cool into something lame.

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Yay, now we are making this thread horrid too!

 

Brock, as a character, has become actively harmful to the WWE product. I'm all for monster acts, especially monster acts near the top of the company. But Brock has broken the point for being too powerful. He actively seems legitimately unbeatable, and thus makes every other wrestler in the company looks lesser by comparison.

 

Right, but Mil Muertes is winning his match this round and he's booked the same way.  Shit, he just beat the company's top two babyfaces in one match.  That is the very definition of looking unbeatable and diminishing the whole roster. 

 

Aside from a lot of biases and assorted wackiness, there seems to be no voting consistency when it comes to "this guy is really good" vs "this guy is booked in a way that makes him look good."  A good deal of this thing is a popularity contest and it's going to be awesome when the final is Bailey vs Asuka.

 

 

 

And that is my problem too. The WWE finds one good thing, then RUNS IT INTO THE GROUND till nobody cares anymore. That's Brock Lesnar matches for me.

 

I have to admit I'm turning on New Day a bit for the same reason.  As soon as I heard "Vince loves New Day," I knew the end was near.

 

And God forgive me but I side with Gregggg here.  I don't think American Alpha has been around long enough or booked in anything meaningful enough to warrant votes yet.  Aside from goofball promos and flashy spots, there's not a lot there yet.

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How many times must Brock say, "Suplex City, bitch!" in a match? It's almost every time out. Yeah. We get it. Your German Suplex is a devastating weapon. Constantly repeating that line turns something really cool into something lame.

He said it once at Mania. Heyman said it once afterwards in a promo. It has literally never been said again by anyone in WWE since then.

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How many times must Brock say, "Suplex City, bitch!" in a match? It's almost every time out. Yeah. We get it. Your German Suplex is a devastating weapon. Constantly repeating that line turns something really cool into something lame.

He said it once at Mania. Heyman said it once afterwards in a promo. It has literally never been said again by anyone in WWE since then.

 

 

Well except the time Brock said it in the Summerslam match

 

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How many times must Brock say, "Suplex City, bitch!" in a match? It's almost every time out. Yeah. We get it. Your German Suplex is a devastating weapon. Constantly repeating that line turns something really cool into something lame.

He said it once at Mania. Heyman said it once afterwards in a promo. It has literally never been said again by anyone in WWE since then.

 

 

Commentators and fans?

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American Alpha brings me great joy when I watch them.  The initially-reluctant pairing evolving into "Hey, we really like each other!" has been such an organically fun story to follow.  I just love seeing them on TV and when they're not on the show wish they were.

 

Brock has been a tale of diminishing returns which is sad.  It's not just how they've continually presented him, but also the aforementioned lack of match formula.  Unless he was told otherwise, I'd imagine Brock could have done some things differently to make his matches unique, but it wasn't there.  I love watching him, but going with American Alpha.

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How many times must Brock say, "Suplex City, bitch!" in a match? It's almost every time out. Yeah. We get it. Your German Suplex is a devastating weapon. Constantly repeating that line turns something really cool into something lame.

He said it once at Mania. Heyman said it once afterwards in a promo. It has literally never been said again by anyone in WWE since then.

 

 

Oh?

 

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 Lesnar's matches have devolved into a homogenized "Brock style" that's really pretty tedious.

 

 

I wouldn't consider Lesnar/Reigns this "Brock style" and that was MOTY and American Alpha as much as I like them they didn't have anything that came close. At least not what's available for us to watch.

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*sigh* This one is hard for me. I like both acts very much.

 

I'm gonna wait a day and come back to this one. Could you guys eviscerate each other to help me decide? :D

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I honestly don't get the "Brock style" argument. He set up a style against Cena, used it against mid-carders and lower, but every other match has been the psychology of overcoming this rampaging monster who just wants to drive you into the ground. It's pretty great story. They establish a guy's style, have him reinforce it with the occasional squash, then have higher card wrestlers have to game plan against that style.

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It's a style the gets progressively more boring everytime I see it, like the Cena match was an amazing spectacle, but watching matches based around how many times Brock can german suplex someone gets repetitive and the matches that have deviated from the formula don't have a great success rate (in this voting period anyway) Mania and Summerslam were good (though I really hate the finish to the SS match, like it practically ruins the match for me) but other than that his matches have been at best in the, average to good-I-suppose range with the Rollins match being pretty terrible and I didn't care for the HIAC match at all either.  

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The purpose of Brocks build to unstoppable status was to make Roman. Then they abandoned that idea. What you're left with is a strong Brock they don't want as champ but want to keep in the title picture. He is stuck in main event purgatory.

 

Any upper midcarder/lower main eventer will be squashed by Brock and get almost no offense in. Any title match which is a one on one matchup will include a screwy finish. Any three way will involve someone other than Brock getting pinned.

 

Someone who was unpredictable and refreshing is entirely predictable. 

 

American Alpha is one of those nxt success stories the audience feels especially close to. We saw the dopey vignettes. We watched the team gel. This is the type of thing that would've failed 99/100 times on the main roster, yet here we are. 

 

But they're still not Brock. 

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I'm fine with the criticisms of Brock that Matt D has made and now others have suddenly started to agree with. I don't feel like Brock had a truly great year, and he no longer feels totally fresh. Matt, you've often compared Stan Hansen to a tool for another wrestler to use as he sees fit, and I think Brock is firmly in that stage of his career as well, although I think it's clear that he is a much harder tool for people to use and actually advance or get over with. I don't think anyone looks tougher in victory or defeat against Lesnar. They look lucky or decimated. That being said, Brock's year had some decent matches. The Fastlane match was fun. The squashes were fun. He made random promos on Raw seem like an event. The pull apart stuff was awesome. 

 

All that being said, I voted for Brock. Nothing American Alpha has done thus far has made me think they are anything but tag team Tyler Breeze; an act tailor made to get over on a specific show in front of a specific crowd. They've done that and should be commended, but when other factors are close to being equal, I think degree of difficulty has to factor in. Being over on the main roster is leaps and bounds more impressive to me than getting Full Sail to like you. That probably won't be enough for Brock moving forward, but it's enough when I find the other stuff for American Alpha a bit lacking.

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Nothing American Alpha has done thus far has made me think they are anything but tag team Tyler Breeze; an act tailor made to get over on a specific show in front of a specific crowd. They've done that and should be commended, but when other factors are close to being equal, I think degree of difficulty has to factor in. Being over on the main roster is leaps and bounds more impressive to me than getting Full Sail to like you.

 

Bravo.  Just keep this on the clipboard for every "NXT vs major company star" matchup in this tournament.  I really enjoy NXT but we're severely overrating NXT talents based on a small sample and under optimum conditions.  It's like watching the Harlem Globetrotters trounce the Washington Generals and thinking they're the best team in basketball because of it.

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I honestly don't get the "Brock style" argument. He set up a style against Cena, used it against mid-carders and lower, but every other match has been the psychology of overcoming this rampaging monster who just wants to drive you into the ground. It's pretty great story.

It's a great story - in theory, but that's not the actuality of its execution. The idea was for Roman to be the guy to overcome it. But then they didn't let Roman beat him. And then they turned Brock face, which 1) fundamentally alters the dynamic they created, and 2) it turns out Brock isn't really good at working face with it. And the whole thing has just devolved from there. He has no clue how to build up a comeback or transition back to offense.

The last 6 months have been the nadir. Just terrible. The only decent match he's been in during that time required contriving a way to have him lay around outside not actively contributing to the match because they've created a problem where it's not believable if he's not dominating 80% of the time he's in the ring.

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