[MM16] R2C: SAMI ZAYN vs. FINN BALOR

[Kyuubi]

As one of the few people that actually like Finn but can see why people don't like him in the ring as a face, it's a shame that Sami could not wrestle more and Hideo got injured and Kevin Owes got called up almost immediately, but Balor has a pretty decent champion which something you can say for only Sasha Banks and Bayley in the WWE. He has delivered on big name matches and gave main event quality matches consistently. Yeah, he wasn't fan-fucking-tastic like Sami or Daniel Bryan, but he was consistent and even this late in his career, he is starting to show some emotion albeit it happened in his last two matches. But he has been consistent so yeah. I'd vote for him.

[TimLivingston]

I think Finn has gotten a bit better over the course of the year. He's started to try and branch out a bit, and you can thank Joe for doing that with him. I also liked the Apollo showcase match more than I thought.

 

Zayn hasn't had as much quality as people might think, sadly. He's had some good matches, but I think Finn wins this easily. More of the votes for Zayn are basically because people don't like Finn and do like Zayn, where if you look at the work, it's actually Finn who came up with some good stuff the last year.

[tbarrie]

Yeah, he wasn't fan-fucking-tastic like Sami or Daniel Bryan, but he was consistent and even this late in his career, he is starting to show some emotion albeit it happened in his last two matches. But he has been consistent so yeah. I'd vote for him.

You do realize Sami is the guy he's up against this round?

[Greggulator]

I have come around on Finn. He was so lame when he entered. His entrance was dumb and the demon stuff wasn't working for me. He also felt like when people started telling me about Arcade Fire and how amazing they were and then I heard them and wanted to sleep. Or Breaking Bad. (I am opening up a major can of worms.

But Finn has grown on me a lot. The stories about him coming up in Ireland and his quiet but confident persona are really good and contrast with everyone else. His matches range from "fine" to "really good."

Sami, tho. He's the man. That match against Cena was excellent, especially when you consider his injury. The Joe feud has been really good stuff.

[The Man Known as Dan]

 

I try to take it easy on Finn because he feels like someone whose feelings might get hurt easily. 

 

Your goofy self-importance is the best MM gimmick.  It's so comically pathetic.

 

 

The irony here is that you've devolved into a gimmick during this tournament and I'm not sure if you are aware of it.

 

Also, the thing is, the worst parts of Sami/Owens were still better then the best parts of Balor/Owens. Sami brought significantly more to the table then Finn did, while Sami could barely use his arm.

[Kyuubi]

 

Yeah, he wasn't fan-fucking-tastic like Sami or Daniel Bryan, but he was consistent and even this late in his career, he is starting to show some emotion albeit it happened in his last two matches. But he has been consistent so yeah. I'd vote for him.

You do realize Sami is the guy he's up against this round?

 

Sami in general. This year alone is not enough to for him to get my vote against Finn. In spite of everything he has done in the year being great. Finn has been consistently good several times. Just not fantastic. It's like a wide receiver game. Dude catches 1 touchdown for every game. The other guy catches 3 touchdowns for two. Who had a better season?

[Chicken Sandwich Carl]

I'm going to need someone to paint by numbers me a reason why they think Owens Zayn 2 (a match where they walked around the arena and punched each other for 7 minutes) is in any way better than any of the three Balor Owens matches, because all three were excellent and Owens Zayn 2 was like half a match.

[AxB]

 

I already gave Balor the sympathy vote, because I didn't think it would be fair if this was a shut-out.

 

Balor might win this on sympathy votes alone lol

 

 

It was 4-0 Zayn when I voted. And the thread had no comments and had fallen beneath most of R2B.

[Jrag]

I like the Balor title win in Japan more than Zayn/Owens 2 by a wide margin.  Wasn't very high on the ladder match, but I think that gimmick is so played out it takes something special to separate from your average ladder match.

 

How many times did Balor/Itami happen in the time period?  I remember Itami winning a singles match to get in the WM battle royal and that was pretty good.  I also remember a different match where Balor debuted the running dropkick into the corner and it was the best that move has ever looked.

[Cristobal]

Man, that match made me sorry I voted against Zayn, for all that it shouldn't count.

[JRGoldman]

Balor is basically Randy Orton with face paint and a cool entrance. I've yet to feel like he is actively adding to any of the matches he's been in this year. Right now, he's simply a tool for other more inventive wrestlers, but not a particularly interesting one.

[SorceressKnight]

Man, that match made me sorry I voted against Zayn, for all that it shouldn't count.

 

This is actually going to be VERY interesting for the Sami Zayn/Samoa Joe votes:

 

It was a genuine MOTYC anyway...but it's happened in March so it's technically outside the voting period...BUT, the NXT tapings were done back in January, so just as technically people could make a strong argument it still should be counted anyway, and I've gone crosseyed.

[MoeCristyV.1.6]

The air date counts, but it is now 50/50 anyway, so...congratulations, you are WWE creative!

[Kyuubi]

 

 

Yeah, he wasn't fan-fucking-tastic like Sami or Daniel Bryan, but he was consistent and even this late in his career, he is starting to show some emotion albeit it happened in his last two matches. But he has been consistent so yeah. I'd vote for him.

You do realize Sami is the guy he's up against this round?

 

Sami in general. This year alone is not enough to for him to get my vote against Finn. In spite of everything he has done in the year being great. Finn has been consistently good several times. Just not fantastic. It's like a wide receiver game. Dude catches 1 touchdown for every game. The other guy catches 3 touchdowns for two. Who had a better season?

 

Okay,  so if the WR who had 3 touchdowns per game only played two games and then plays that last game and 11 touchdowns than yeah...he had a better season.

 

Sami and Joe did that last night which was technically last January so yeah...I wish I could change my vote.

[SirSmUgly]

I think the Bálor match against Neville last week was better, but neither of them count anyway. 

 

Honestly, Bálor has closed the gap a bit between himself and Zayn in terms of work, but Zayn is a better all-around performer who actually makes me care about him via selling and facial/body expressions, even if he did miss six months or whatever. 

[DreamBroken]

Fuck.

[Marty Sugar]

Tough one, but I dug Sami's matches more. Finn reminds me a little of Dean Malenko: amazingly sound but sometimes a little dull. Zayn is all about heart and emotion and lots of other cliches I won't bother typing.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I love Sami but he hasn't done anything in the voting period. I'm going to have to vote against him again next round.

[Rehabilitated Rick]

I imagine the ''demon'' gimmick would be executed so much more sweeter on someone like Kenta rather than the dullard Finn Balor, despite him donning the ''war paint'' several times I don't see any real disconnect from regular Finn to the demon, rather just a bloke who paints himself to look like a goof, showcased at NXT London where he glorified a serial killer, a complete lack of self awareness. Cocky Finn with the Balor Club or whatever is a better fit. Can't really get emotionally invested in his matches either. Sami destroys him on all levels. 

[OSJ]

I've never quite been able to get my head around the "Finn is boring" talking point. Of course, I've never understood the same criticism when it has been aimed at Randy Orton either. To me, both guys are guilty of spoiling the audience by being consistently excellent to the point that it becomes difficult to single out a specific match as being outstanding as the entire body of work is noteworthy. If we were talking an equal amount of time in the ring, I'd be forced to choose Sami. As it is, while Sami's high points may have been higher than Finn's when you weigh in quantity as well as quality it's impossible to not opt for Finn.

[The Unholy Dragon]

I really liked Balor's match with KO in Japan and his first match with Apollo Crews where he played it like Crews had all the natural advantages but hadn't been pushed or forced to go far beyond surviving some stuff then rattling off his moves. That said, Sami came back with maybe the best comeback match I've ever seen actually playing up being rusty in subtle ways against Tye Dillinger and really making an upset seem possible while Balor worked the most dull blah forced epic against Joe to ruin what should have been a great feud. And moves more into shitty, sloppy work with no selling.

Balor beats himself more than anything. I spent half the year rolling my eyes at him and popped for nothing he did like I popped for Sami at the Rumble.

[SirSmUgly]

I've never quite been able to get my head around the "Finn is boring" talking point. Of course, I've never understood the same criticism when it has been aimed at Randy Orton either. To me, both guys are guilty of spoiling the audience by being consistently excellent to the point that it becomes difficult to single out a specific match as being outstanding as the entire body of work is noteworthy. If we were talking an equal amount of time in the ring, I'd be forced to choose Sami. As it is, while Sami's high points may have been higher than Finn's when you weigh in quantity as well as quality it's impossible to not opt for Finn.

 

I don't think that's a fair argument. The Shield had probably eighty great matches in one year, but people can point out their favorites easily. I think Daniel Bryan/Bryan Danielson has an absurd number of high-quality matches, but I can point out my favorites that go above and beyond. Jim Breaks (yay, second Jim Breaks reference in this tournament!) was consistently really good, but even after seeing pretty much every match on DM or YouTube out there, I can still list Jim Breaks matches that I think were especially great.

 

This criticism seems like it's trying to get into the heads of other people's preferences when instead, you should just listen to us: We're telling you that Finn is boring because he wrestles matches as moves exhibitions where he just has to get his shit in more than he does as athletic contests (though I think the first Crews match and this latest out-of-period Neville match are exceptions), because his face personality is bland, or whatever issues other people have with them.

 

However, I think that saying "the output of quality is so high that it all just runs together, and that's what you guys are REALLY trying to say" is somewhat dismissive of all the stuff that people have actually said, with all due respect to you, good sir. 

[Matt D]

It's a tidal change thing, John. Workrate's just one metric in 2016, at least here. He works hard. He hits stuff cleanly. He doesn't maximize the narrative and emotional meaning behind it as well as a guy like Sami who also works hard and hits stuff cleanly. Sami makes it matter more. That is, in part, why he's winning.

[RIPPA]

Sami - 60

Finn - 52