Hooker Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 If they booked Big Show the same exact way they've presented Brock (and Big Show has had periods where he was dominant) it wouldn't be the same. Brock is Brock. Nobody else brings the DANGER to the ring like Brock. I hate to use the word but there is a certain realism that surrounds Brock. It's not exactly grounded in kayfabe but I don't think it tears down that barrier either. Brock is a guy that has this aura about him and everyone buys into him destroying all comers. They want to see what he'll do next. You couldn't do that with Big Show. You couldn't do it with anyone else but Brock. Maybe a Mark Henry could come close but there really has never been anyone in professional wreslting quite like Brock Lesnar. Every time he showed up within the past year he was first greeted with "OH SHITS" and his matches left fans in a "I can't believe this is happening" daze. In a good way. This is actually a really good point that it's the booking, and it is so because that match against The Undertaker was garbage. Brock has been phenomenal, but he's had the good fortune of working with Cena in every single match over the past 10 months. The two match before his Cena series were against Undertaker and Big Show, and those matches really stunk the joint up (hard to call the Big Show one a match, of course). I would also argue Lesnar, while not quite stinking the place up, had a pretty lackluster Wrestlemania match against Triple H. Lesnar is all the things you describe, but he needs someone that bump around for him while simultaneously leading him through the match. He's a grenade: a weapon of incredible force in the right hands but dangerous to everyone, including the operator, in the wrong hands.... ....which is why I am so excited about Wrestlemania! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 With no background in Honma, I fem we are using two different meanings of transcends here. One transcends his booking and position on the card, the other transcends pro wrestling itself. Shrug. I didn't vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanWaco Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 TomK tweeted me yesterday that post-comeback Brock is a Cena creation. I think that is exaggerated, but it is hard to ignore that of his five really good or better post-comeback matches, four involved Cena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I thought the Punk match may have been Brock's best performance. He made Punk's offense look better than anyone I can recall. It's too bad we didn't get to see him work more guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I can't believe Honma is in the lead, as narrow as it is. This is like when he finally hits the headbutt. Happiness! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSC Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I can't believe Honma is in the lead, as narrow as it is. This is like when he finally hits the headbutt. Happiness! I'm glad to hear this is close because all the Honma arguments have really swayed me and I've been putting in the time to get familiar with his work this year and if after all that Brock was just destroying him, I'd have been pretty annoyed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I hope Honma is the Japanese wrestler people on the board get to know from this tournament. He's too much fun to be ignored. Go back and watch some of his stuff from Big Japan in '99 and '00, particularly the matches against Yamakawa. Baby Vampire Chicken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Vote first, watch later: http://deathvalleydriver.com/forum/index.php?/topic/3338-wrestler-of-the-day-tomoaki-honma/ (well there are some 2014 matches on there so use proper discretion. Or don't) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Without the booking and Heyman, Brock would have been Batista. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 With no background in Honma, I fem we are using two different meanings of transcends here. One transcends his booking and position on the card, the other transcends pro wrestling itself. Shrug. I didn't vote. WE NEED YOU TO VOTE DAMNIT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Without the booking and Heyman, Brock would have been Batista. This is the dumbest shit in a tournament full of shit arguments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSC Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Holy shit, the Ishii match. I went in with the intention of checking out like 5 different guys matches tonight and I'm on hour 3 down the Honma rabbit hole. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Without the booking and Heyman, Brock would have been Batista. This is the dumbest shit in a tournament full of shit arguments. Oh, were you one of the 14 or so people who actually gave a crap about that HHH feud? Sorry the truth offends you. Meanwhile, Honma's the better wrestler. I should have waited to vote, but at least I got to see his matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I count six, maybe seven good Brock matches since his comeback in 2012, although I do have the four with Cena involved as the four best. But I liked the Punk match and two out of the three HHH matches. I actually think the Taker match is better than it get credit for too. But most of that isn't germane to the discussion at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Without the booking and Heyman, Brock would have been Batista. This is the dumbest shit in a tournament full of shit arguments. Oh, were you one of the 14 or so people who actually gave a crap about that HHH feud? Sorry the truth offends you.Meanwhile, Honma's the better wrestler. I should have waited to vote, but at least I got to see his matches. No, it's pretty fucking stupid. You're better than that. Or you're not and are just a mouth breathing idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 The scissorhands are out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolidGoldBomb Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I wonder how many of the people voting for Honma are Bryan fans voting for him since he lost to Brock the previous match. But if Brock beat Bryan then you'd think Honma should beat Bryan also. Now we need to see Honma vs Bryan to figure this out.... but I have a feeling Bryan would win that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLaw Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I wonder how many of the people voting for Honma are Bryan fans voting for him since he lost to Brock the previous match. But if Brock beat Bryan then you'd think Honma should beat Bryan also. Now we need to see Honma vs Bryan to figure this out.... but I have a feeling Bryan would win that one. Total spite vote here. Spite votes defy the transitive property you're trying to allege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I wonder how many of the people voting for Honma are Bryan fans voting for him since he lost to Brock the previous match. But if Brock beat Bryan then you'd think Honma should beat Bryan also. Now we need to see Honma vs Bryan to figure this out.... but I have a feeling Bryan would win that one. Come on now. I'm a massive Bryan mark but his few months can't touch Honma's incredible year. I know spite and emotions often overrule logic the deeper the tournament goes and I'm of the opinion that emotions are an important part of wrestling and should matter when it comes to voting but certainly not to that degree. If Bryan were healthy the whole year and putting on his usual caliber of matches throughout the eligibility window, then we'd have a serious discussion. But Honma fucking rules and no part timer or two months from aaaanybody should be beating the year he just had. Why is there not a gif on the internetz of Honma doing the headbutt taunt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Without the booking and Heyman, Brock would have been Batista. This is the dumbest shit in a tournament full of shit arguments. Oh, were you one of the 14 or so people who actually gave a crap about that HHH feud? Sorry the truth offends you. Meanwhile, Honma's the better wrestler. I should have waited to vote, but at least I got to see his matches. No, it's pretty fucking stupid. You're better than that. Or you're not and are just a mouth breathing idiot. Brock Lesnar, while possibly the most physically gifted athlete ever to perform in wrestling, is dependent on better wrestlers to call matches for him, bookers to protect him in a way they haven't protected anyone else in decades, and Heyman to cover up for the fact that his best promos are silence. And the sum of all these parts working together is pretty special. I'm glad people like you and Jrag can enjoy that holistically, even if it does limit your ability to pick out that whole forest/trees dichotomy. Meanwhile, if Brock doesn't have all of that going for him, (and doesn't have that "UFC Champ" tag on him, which is also a great asset for Brock, but a problematic one for wrestling as a whole,) he's just another big guy stopping by WWE in between other gigs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I think it's telling that many of the anti-Lesnar people in this thread have an argument that boils down to "He's so awesome that other people look bad in comparison". That isn't actually an argument against Brock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Same way "He feels special every time he walks out (because he's booked that way)" isn't actually an argument FOR Brock, but it's one we've seen a lot more in this thread than what you just said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 Honma - 63 Lesnar - 61 Oh spite voting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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