Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

July Wrestling Catch-All


Recommended Posts

Vic, if I'm remembering right, you have watched an absolute ton of ECW stuff, yeah? Who are your picks for being responsible for the most best matches from their opponents? I have been thinking about how fun this might be to do for each promotion (or at least modern promotions). 

I think the best ECW guys are Tajiri, Scorpio, Mikey Whipwreck and Rob Van Dam. I know some people hate RVD and probably with good reason now. But as I watched his time in ECW, guys always looked good against him. Guys like Skull Von Crush and Mike Lozansky looked like stars after wrestling RVD.He made Lance Storm and Jerry Lynn stars in ECW. I don't think I need to say anything more about why Tajiri is so great. He was really the complete package, he was a great character and wrestler. He really should have been ECW World Champion. Mikey always had good matches against everyone. Whether it be Sandman, Sabu or Shane Douglas and those guys sometimes had styles clashes. For whatever reason, it was rare to have good chemistry with all three. Scorp is like Tajiri, he developed a great character and had great in ring. You could put him against anyone and the match would be good.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the bright spots in a total shit InVasion angle was how awesome Tajiri was treated:  his great debut match against Crash Holly with Regal's great facial reactions, his dual title reigns as US and Lt Heavyweight (or Cruiser, I forget which), his tremendous interactions with Steve Austin (Austin being the one guy who could understand him), and then getting an angle where Torrie Wilson fawned over him. 

 

And as much disdain as I have for HHH in this era, I give him props for taking Tajiri's mist and selling it for half the show.  Unlike Taker who took it and just looked mildly annoyed that he got spat on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There aren't a lot of guys in the history of the business with the natural charisma and in-ring ability of Tajiri. 

 

FFS, Tajiri got so over that Regal turned face just by association with him. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

RVD/Balls was from Anarchy Rulz 99.I

I really preferred the TV match they had in late 98. It frustrates me that they cancelled Johnny Smith vs RVD for no reason. I always thought Smith would have gotten a job in WCW or the WWF at some point. A underrated talent. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tajiri and Tracy Smothers are probably my favorite two guys to watch from 90's.

 

Speaking of Smothers, the FBI were the best true heel act in ECW, the greatest troll gimmick ever, and experts at making others look good.  

 

Candido's best ECW match was a fancam against Mikey which is outstanding.  

 

Tajiri v. Crazy Mexican Death Match from the Arena was awesome, but I"m not at all sure it's better than the other one they had on a FanCam I"ve seen or some of the better Tajiri v. Guido matches.  There is also a Tajiri v. El Lobo match from Puerto Rico in 2001 that is fucking awesome.  And Tajiri v. Finlay from last year.  Hell his carry job of that one scrub this year is a top five (if not top three) Japanese match of 2013.  I've said this many times but in 99/00 Tajiri was probably the best wrestler on Earth, though I guess Ishikawa or someone like that may have been better.  IN any event I have seen every available match he wrestled during those years and never saw a performance that was less than good, with the outright majority being great.  I would kill to see a 20-30 disc Tajiri comp one day 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tajiri and Tracy Smothers are probably my favorite two guys to watch from 90's.

 

Speaking of Smothers, the FBI were the best true heel act in ECW, the greatest troll gimmick ever, and experts at making others look good.  

 

Candido's best ECW match was a fancam against Mikey which is outstanding.  

 

Tajiri v. Crazy Mexican Death Match from the Arena was awesome, but I"m not at all sure it's better than the other one they had on a FanCam I"ve seen or some of the better Tajiri v. Guido matches.  There is also a Tajiri v. El Lobo match from Puerto Rico in 2001 that is fucking awesome.  And Tajiri v. Finlay from last year.  Hell his carry job of that one scrub this year is a top five (if not top three) Japanese match of 2013.  I've said this many times but in 99/00 Tajiri was probably the best wrestler on Earth, though I guess Ishikawa or someone like that may have been better.  IN any event I have seen every available match he wrestled during those years and never saw a performance that was less than good, with the outright majority being great.  I would kill to see a 20-30 disc Tajiri comp one day 

 

Which scrub?  He was wrestling all sorts of strange fellows in SMASH.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As far as ECW went...

 

Like I said earlier, I think Rhino got the best out of Sandman. 

 

Lynn got the best out of RVD, Credible...

 

RVD got the best out of Sabu

 

Sabu got the best out of Taz... although I'll listen to an argument for Bigelow.

 

I think the Dudleys got the best out of Dreamer. 

 

I can't put my finger on who got the best out of Douglas in ECW... was it Scorpio?  Bigelow?  Pitbull?  Funk?

 

 

Re: Douglas, his best match in ECW was sure versus Scorpio from The Doctor is In in 1996 - although he had an unexpectedly great match with Justin Credible at Cyberslam 1999  - who was responsible for that?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shane was a great wrestler before the injuries piled up. I also think he reigned in some of Scorpio's bullshit by making it part of the match. In this case it is Scorpio not going for pin falls when he hits his finisher. Because he knows he is going to lose. I say this as a huge Scorpio fan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm so curious where Big Show would land in Mookieghana's analysis.

 

And it's funny to think about how horrible a Kane and Booker T feud would be given the results. I know they've had a few matches, but I don't think they've ever done a real program as opponents.

 

Glad it peaked your interest!

 

Since it's just for rated singles matches over three stars, his pool of entries in the dataset based on Dave's ratings just missed the cut-off (he had 9 matches and I had set the cut-off at ten).

As you probably guessed, the analysis isn't kind to Mr. Wight.

 

Big Show (3.19) vs. Sheamus (3.26): 2 matches (3.38 average) = Big Show went up, Sheamus went up
Big Show (3.19) vs. Undertaker (3.73): 2 matches (3.38 average) = Big Show went up, Undertaker went down
Kurt Angle (3.72) vs. Big Show (3.25): 1 matches (3.00 average) = Big Show went up, Kurt Angle went down
Mark Henry (3.25) vs. Big Show (3.22): 1 matches (3.25 average) = Big Show went up, Henry stayed even
The Giant (3.25) vs. Ric Flair (3.74): 1 matches (3.00 average) = Giant went down, Flair went down
The Giant (3.22) vs. Sting (3.61): 1 matches (3.25 average) = Giant went down, Sting went down
Brock Lesnar (3.86) vs. Big Show (3.22): 1 matches (3.25 average) = Big Show went up, Lesnar went down
Feud Points: -2.68 over 7 feuds = -0.38 points per feud.  
Match-weighted points: -2.93 over 9 matches = -0.33 points per match.
On average, Big Show's opponents dropped -0.35 points when they had a rated singles match with him.
So the only match where Big Show "raised" his opponent above their average was Sheamus.  -2.68/7 = -0.38 points per feud
 
The silver lining is that when you add in "multi-person singles matches" (which includes things like MITB ladder matches or Elimination Chambers), his numbers become benign: -0.02 per feud, -0.04 per match.
Multi-person singles matches includes a host of matches involving him that are much higher on average (3.53 stars) than the other singles matches (3.23 stars).
The Giant/Big Show Multi-man Matches

4/6/97 Lex Luger vs. The Giant vs. Stevie Ray vs. Booker T ***1/4
7/15/12 John Cena vs. Chris Jericho vs. Big Show vs. Kane vs. The Miz (Ladder) ***3/4
2/19/12 Daniel Bryan vs. Wade Barrett vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Big Show vs. Santino Marella vs. Great Khali (Elimination Chamber) ***1/2
2/20/11 Edge vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Drew McIntyre vs. Big Show vs. Kane vs. Wade Barrett (Elimination Chamber) ****1/4
7/18/10 Kane vs. Big Show vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Matt Hardy vs. Christian vs. Drew McIntyre vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Cody Rhodes (Ladder) ****
11/22/09 Undertaker vs. Big Show vs. Chris Jericho ***
6/15/09 Randy Orton vs. Triple H vs. Big Show vs. John Cena ***1/2
4/5/09 Edge vs. Big Show vs. John Cena ***1/4
2/15/09 Edge vs. Triple H vs. Undertaker vs. Big Show vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Kozlov (Elimination Chamber) ****1/4
2/15/04 Kurt Angle vs. John Cena vs. Big Show ***
7/27/03 Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar vs. Big Show ***3/4
4/2/00 Triple H vs. Mick Foley vs. Rock vs. Big Show ***
9/26/99 Triple H vs. Kane vs. Mankind vs. Rock vs. Big Show vs. Davey Boy Smith ***1/2

I'm still trying to validate the methodology I'm using as meaningful (regardless of the source of data, I'm curious whether this is really the right approach) as well as how to layer-in the multi-person matches (perhaps by controlling better so each match is only counted once and not many, many times.)

 

As for the Kane/Booker T bit, there was four matches in the dataset with both men which was a 3.875 average rating so like any other silly pro wrestling analytic, let's make of that what we want to believe! ;)

7/22/01 Booker T/Diamond Dallas Page/ Bubba Ray Dudley/D-Von Dudley/Rhyno vs. Steve Austin/Kurt Angle/Chris Jericho/Undertaker/Kane ***1/2
11/18/01 Rock/Chris Jericho/Undertaker/Kane/Big Show vs. Steve Austin/Kurt Angle/Rob Van Dam/Booker T/Shane McMahon (Elimination) ****1/2
9/22/02 Kane/Goldust/Booker T/Bubba Ray Dudley vs. Test/William Regal/Lance Storm/Christian ***1/4
11/17/02 Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Booker T (Elimination Chamber) ****1/4
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a list of the most disputed Wikipedia articles of all time.  One of these things is not like the others...

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/bush-anarchism-and-muhammad-the-most-fought-over-wikipedia-articles-revealed-8717452.html

I suppose it's too much to hope for WWE employees to get pushes as a result of mainstream press this time?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always felt that the Lynn/Storm and RVD/Ballz matches from...  uh, some ppv?...  in 1999 were better than any RVD/Lynn match.

 

Anarchy Rulz. RVD was supposed to take on Johnny Smith that night, but Ballz brained him right before the match. I believe that was the first ECW PPV that was cleared to air on Canadian television.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a list of the most disputed Wikipedia articles of all time.  One of these things is not like the others...

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/bush-anarchism-and-muhammad-the-most-fought-over-wikipedia-articles-revealed-8717452.html

I'm surprised the article in question doesn't even make a glancing reference because everything else is justifiably controversial: Bush, anarchism, Global Warning, Christianity, etc. and then you've got WWE employees.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It could just be idiot wrestling fans doing fake edits and those constantly needing to be corrected.

And unlike other sports, there is no single "draft day" for WWE. They're constantly hiring new developmental talent or letting people go. I think wrestling fans, in general, are just exceptionally active and involved in cataloging wrestling. Plus wrestling has such an international reach as compared to things like American Football or International Rugby or Cricket.

(When I was putting together my thoughts on pro wrestling analytics, I noted there was no less than six other "database/search engine" websites that I use (besides Wikipedia) for pro-wrestling birth/death/height/weight/age/hometown stats:wrestlingdata.comprofightdb.comgenickbruch.comcagematch.netprowrestling.wikia.comluchawiki.com).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...