Technico Support Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I ffwd past both guys so....it's a toss up? If Lethal wrestled Ziggler, my DVR might fall asleep. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I liked Lethal when he was the underdog getting the shit kicked out of him by Low Ki and Homicide in 2005. 05 was such a good year for ROH. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I thought Black Machismo wasn't only a great character but also featured some of Jays best performances in ring. There's a JAPW match from around that time on YouTube where Jay is up against Booker T that I throughly enjoy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 To me, there is nothing that separates Jay Lethal from Azriel, another guy who was in ROH when he was very young, and seemingly never changed his style or improved at all. The difference is Lethal is consistently on TV and talked about as a good worker, while Azriel has trouble getting booked in CZW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Say what you want about Lethal he does hold victories over Angle and Flair https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hftT12MtQlA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamBroken Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I thought Lethal was fine as Black Machismo but when they started trying to push him as a serious guy after that, I couldn't stand him. Thought his promos were awful and hated the segments with his family that attempted put him over as so likeable when I found him the complete opposite. Always found it funny when he beat Flair on PPV then the following Impact, he's beat clean by Hardy in under 5 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Clearly, Hardy is better than Flair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool arrow Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Thousands of fat girls can't be wrong. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caley Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 There was a picture of Bret in this month's thread of when he went on his awesome rant about getting screwed (the whole aftermath following the cage match with Sid). I can't remember now. What was the first really TV-14 kind of moment that started ushering in the Attitude Era? Was it something with Dustin? I remember Lawler calling him the f-word. IIRC, Lawler didn't call him the f-word. He said something "Aren't you....queer?" then Dustin said "NO" to thunderous applause. Bad times. Hart repeatedly said "bullshit" in that promo, and also made reference to Austin's name being 'Stone Cold' because his "stones are so cold". But you'd probably have to go to Austin the previous summer, with the initial 3:16 promo. I also vaguely remember Nash making a couple bordering on TV-14 comments in his last heel run before he left. By the fall, with Austin, Pillman, the Hart Foundation and, finally, DX, WWE was full-on into the TV-14 stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebbie Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Lethal and Flair's woo off in 2010 is damn good enough to make all criticisms about Lethal useless. Besides, he has a great punch, is likeable and is one of the few guys to make a 'homage to ___' gimmick work. They didn't screw up ADR. The fact that he got a rocket shoved up his ass and the crowd reacted to him like their was a random diva match every night screwed him up. The guy could kill a crowd like Alicia Fox in no time. He just didn't have any charisma to back up his push. The Rumble crowd in 2011 was losing their collectively ever motherfucking minds when they thought Santino had won. It was announced Del Rip won and if it wasn't for his music, you could've heard a guy in the cheap seats cough. This was the case for five years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 BTW, here is the video of Bret Hart snapping: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muhammedboehm Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Why is there only like part of a cage in that clip? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolCB Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 They were dismantling it after the show. Probably because there was another Raw taping. Could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 There was a cage match and that was after the match ended where Bret refused to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caley Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 It was great, cuz it just added to the chaos of the scene. Raw had run over its allotted time (Back before it was expected to run over) and it really made it feel like the show had gone off-script. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Now I'm thinking of what could have been if Del Rio had been stuck with Heyman. Nothing. Del Rio just doesn't have the fire/charisma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Nah, he had plenty when given the right role. Him as murderer and Heyman as mouthpiece would have been great IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool arrow Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Anything that means I didn't have to hear about his DESTINY in every promo would've been fine with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Del Rio was great when he had the car, Ricardo and the smug, arrogant smile on his face. That fucking wink was great. He has a great "arrogant" charisma and was born to play an aristocratic heel. Del Rio as a murderer would've been miscast. He just didn't have the physical charisma to draw you into the match with just moves. He was great at playing a character in the ring but I don't see him drawing people in with just a straight forward wrestling gimmick. I mean, the crowd reaction he got after he dropped the aristocrat gimmick proved that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 They so fucked up by taking away the cool cars and rich guy stuff when he turned face. People love cheering guys in cool cars, and face Flair still wore suits and flew in Lear jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I think it would've been really interesting if they had gone with the original plan and had Ricardo as the Rich Latino Aristocrat, and ADR as his bodyguard/hit man that did all the wrestling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 They so fucked up by taking away the cool cars and rich guy stuff when he turned face. People love cheering guys in cool cars, and face Flair still wore suits and flew in Lear jets. With one REALLY glaring exception, it seems that WWE thinks that all top babyfaces should be bland working class good guys with impeccable morals. Considering how successful that REALLY glaring exception was, you'd think they'd realize how terrible that strategy is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Presumably Austin and Rock break the mold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Yeah I felt again that you don't change the character, you change the opponents. They do the same shit with Reigns. Why deviate from what works? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 What's weird is that they did EXACTLY THAT with Steve Austin and it was immensely successful. Aside from asking for a "Hell Yeah," Austin really didn't pander to the crowd too much. He was an angry redneck asshole when he was a heel and face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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