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NXT 2015 THREAD


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I'm tempted to just quote myself from a few weeks ago, but Crowe will be fine. Before he signed with WWE, he had by far the best year of anyone on the indies. He didn't forget how to wrestle. His first two matches in NXT are no more disjointed and weird than Itami's were. It takes some guys a bit to acclimate, and more importantly, it takes agents and producers a bit to really know what makes people shine. 

 

The hacker gimmick was a cool idea, and the house show debut he did where he controlled the lights with an iPad and killed Kallisto was awesome. The promos that he is being judged on were not for TV, and unfortunately got out. I'm sure everyone in NXT has promos they taped that make them look like an idiot, because half the point of them is getting performers to try different things and get out of their comfort zone. Not everyone can be John Cena and nail their first ever taped promo.

 

Like Patrick said, Crowe will start to turn some heads when he gets put in there with a guy who he can go toe to toe with. I don't think it has to be someone of a like size (although Crowe and Itami stiffing the shit out of each other would be amazing) but just someone who can work a 50/50 match. Crowe sells really well. I think right now, people want to get him over by having him work the same formula he did in the Finlay matches. Unfortunately, Bull Dempsey and CJ Parker are not Fit Finlay. The are working like well trained and capable sports entertainers, which is exactly how they should be working. Fit Finlay worked those matches like he was legitimately trying to kill Crowe. While those matches were amazing, that is not how Crowe worked the majority of the time. He had great matches with a lot of people by throwing haymakers back and forth. 

 

I've said all this before, but I think maybe we should wait for another set of tapings before we decide that someone doesn't have "it". Performers grow and change. If first impressions were everything in wrestling, Fandango and Zach Ryder would be the most over dudes ever while WWE Superstar Flex Kavana would be signing autographs next to Virgil. 

 

Hideo Itami signed in July 2014 and was on NXT television two months later.

 

Solomon Crowe signed in July 2013 and didn't even make it to NXT television until February. 

 

The "some time to acclimate" argument doesn't really work as well for Crowe as it would for Itami.

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I will admit that OVW TV convinced me that Mark Magnus (or Muhammad Hassan) would be a major star once he came up. I still think he could've been if WWE hadn't screwed up booking him. 

 

I'm still saddened that they didn't give him a sort of Saladin gimmick where he's a stoic warrior and probably the most honorable guy on the roster. (Added fantasy booking includes him snapping into a 'Mad Arab' facepaint Great Muta-like gimmick for the big grudge matches.) Such a shame.

 

Speaking of OVW: I absolutely loved Brent Albright's feud with CM Punk. Based on that feud alone, I thought Albright would be big on the main roster. Then again, I had high hopes for Dan Puder as well, so...

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I'm tempted to just quote myself from a few weeks ago, but Crowe will be fine. Before he signed with WWE, he had by far the best year of anyone on the indies. He didn't forget how to wrestle. His first two matches in NXT are no more disjointed and weird than Itami's were. It takes some guys a bit to acclimate, and more importantly, it takes agents and producers a bit to really know what makes people shine. 

 

The hacker gimmick was a cool idea, and the house show debut he did where he controlled the lights with an iPad and killed Kallisto was awesome. The promos that he is being judged on were not for TV, and unfortunately got out. I'm sure everyone in NXT has promos they taped that make them look like an idiot, because half the point of them is getting performers to try different things and get out of their comfort zone. Not everyone can be John Cena and nail their first ever taped promo.

 

Like Patrick said, Crowe will start to turn some heads when he gets put in there with a guy who he can go toe to toe with. I don't think it has to be someone of a like size (although Crowe and Itami stiffing the shit out of each other would be amazing) but just someone who can work a 50/50 match. Crowe sells really well. I think right now, people want to get him over by having him work the same formula he did in the Finlay matches. Unfortunately, Bull Dempsey and CJ Parker are not Fit Finlay. The are working like well trained and capable sports entertainers, which is exactly how they should be working. Fit Finlay worked those matches like he was legitimately trying to kill Crowe. While those matches were amazing, that is not how Crowe worked the majority of the time. He had great matches with a lot of people by throwing haymakers back and forth. 

 

I've said all this before, but I think maybe we should wait for another set of tapings before we decide that someone doesn't have "it". Performers grow and change. If first impressions were everything in wrestling, Fandango and Zach Ryder would be the most over dudes ever while WWE Superstar Flex Kavana would be signing autographs next to Virgil. 

 

Hideo Itami signed in July 2014 and was on NXT television two months later.

 

Solomon Crowe signed in July 2013 and didn't even make it to NXT television until February. 

 

The "some time to acclimate" argument doesn't really work as well for Crowe as it would for Itami.

 

 

I'm not sure I was clear. I think acclimating to television is much harder than acclimating the "the WWE style", which at this point just means "not quite as stiff as you were on the Indies". I don't think they hired a lemon with Crowe, and I think his pre NXT work for the past couple years (2011-2013) was much better than Itami. You don't know what you have until you put it in front of an audience and see how it plays. What Crowe, the writers and the NXT creative team came up with obviously did not come across as well as they had hoped. I think it's admirable that Crowe tried something other than playing his Indy character, which is what many with his level of experience have done in NXT, including Itami. I think he should be given the benefit of the doubt and be allowed to iron out the wrinkles a little bit more than he has been. 

 

Should we question the thought process that led to giving someone who cut all his Indy promos with a dip packed some weird high tech hacker gimmick? Yes. Should we fault them for trying? No, probably not. He is a good in ring wrestler, a decent (if somewhat limited) promo, and has a good amount of physical charisma. Let's let him figure it out on the fly a little bit more.

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Hideo Itami signed in July 2014 and was on NXT television two months later.

 

Solomon Crowe signed in July 2013 and didn't even make it to NXT television until February. 

 

The "some time to acclimate" argument doesn't really work as well for Crowe as it would for Itami.

 

 

I'm not sure I was clear. I think acclimating to television is much harder than acclimating the "the WWE style", which at this point just means "not quite as stiff as you were on the Indies". I don't think they hired a lemon with Crowe, and I think his pre NXT work for the past couple years (2011-2013) was much better than Itami. You don't know what you have until you put it in front of an audience and see how it plays. What Crowe, the writers and the NXT creative team came up with obviously did not come across as well as they had hoped. I think it's admirable that Crowe tried something other than playing his Indy character, which is what many with his level of experience have done in NXT, including Itami. I think he should be given the benefit of the doubt and be allowed to iron out the wrinkles a little bit more than he has been. 

 

Should we question the thought process that led to giving someone who cut all his Indy promos with a dip packed some weird high tech hacker gimmick? Yes. Should we fault them for trying? No, probably not. He is a good in ring wrestler, a decent (if somewhat limited) promo, and has a good amount of physical charisma. Let's let him figure it out on the fly a little bit more.

 

 

Maybe, but the bigger problem is that Solomon Crowe's weaknesses now are more related to NXT's bigger problem: They're quickly approaching "peak smarkishness". 

 

If Solomon Crowe needs time to gestate, that's one thing- but the bigger issue seems to be how with Crowe, even if there's some big signs (and "he didn't make the NXT rotation for 18 months"  is a big black mark of something being wrong there)- Crowe is getting more chances to change it because "he's Sami Callihan (NOT! Solomon Crowe!), so he'll be great eventually!", but homegrown performers barely get a first chance to make a first impression (and even if they proved to be perfectly servicable performers, they only have the crowd turn on them.)

 

The more and more NXT comes out, the more and more clear it's becoming that it's fallen to "the NXT fanbase won't accept any male wrestler who didn't come from a super-indy, and won't accept any female wrestler who didn't specifically come from SHIMMER."

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We seem to be underselling how much the NXT crowd adopts to certain acts.  When the crowd feels like they were with a wrestler every step of the way, watching him grow, or if they "liked him before it was cool", they don't tend to turn on that person. 

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When Adam Rose debuted with his current gimmick the NXT crowd went bonkers for him. Big E and Wade Barrett, though we're going a bit into the FCW days for Wade. Charlotte was never in Shimmer.

Honestly, the NXT crowd appreciates good wrestling, and I don't see any indication that they're particular about where it comes from. We've had super-indies and wrestlers coming out of Japanese and lucha environments and we've also had Tyler Breeze, the Ascension, Baron Corbin, etc.

Sorry SK, but your theory is bunk.

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Sasha was forced to turn heel originally, in large part due to not being a SHIMMER alum, so there's something there- and for the others- quite frankly, I give it two tapings before they turn on Breeze, Enzo, and Cass.

No way. The crowds have been shitting all over Carmella for months just because of the vaguest of hints that she might possibly cause some dissension between Enzo and Cass. They'd need to start punting baby kittens during their entrance to get the crowd against them, and even then the dog people will still chant along during the introductions.

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With the people who have made a buzz, these are some good points, but honestly it still does seem like this is the problem.

 

It does remind me too much of TNA and it's problems during the first couple years of the promotion for me to really get it.  In the beginning, TNA starts up, and they had a group of more obscure wrestlers as well as top super-indy names for the X-Division. That gave a lot of the early NWATNA names who could be considered homegrowns- even the who didn't fit the "X-Division style" like Abyss/Monty Brown/AMW/etc. a buzz with fans (which even got names like Abyss onto ROH's roster.) 

 

Even though those names did get a buzz with the fans originally, eventually the fans saw the X-Division's build, and slowly a change occurred. It didn't immediately happen, but eventually the TNA fanbase did play their card, and soon they just refused to accept any TNA signing who wasn't a ROH or SHIMMER alumnus as not being good enough. Combined with ROH closing their ranks on TNA and TNA's prices not being able to steal many ROH talents unless they had no choice- eventually, TNA's roster stagnated. Between other booking problems booking the TNA roster into oblivion, eventually you have the issues TNA had right now.

 

This is the real issue with NXT right now- yes, there are some big name "homegrowns" and non-super indy talents in NXT that made a name for themselves- but even then, it seems like the fans are starting to make that change. It seems like a non-super indy/SHIMMER talent who debuts now doesn't have a prayer of getting the same respect that one would get even debuting one year ago...and this is even getting worse, since homegrown NXT stars who were getting a bit of buzz and some respect like Baron Corbin and Alexa Bliss have seen the fans turn on them vehemently for not being good enough (while both of them have been improving very well for their role, if not being good as it stands.) 

 

It probably isn't happening immediately, and maybe I was a little bit pessimistic to think that people like Breeze/Enzo and Cass would get the fans to turn on them for it- but right now, it does look like we're getting closer to the endgame of "the NXT fans won't accept a non super-indy or SHIMMER talent" than you'd think.

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No way. The crowds have been shitting all over Carmella for months just because of the vaguest of hints that she might possibly cause some dissension between Enzo and Cass. They'd need to start punting baby kittens during their entrance to get the crowd against them, and even then the dog people will still chant along during the introductions.

 

Carmella had the unfortunate combination of natural heel persona, being green as grass, and having her in-ring debut be against "Blue Pants." Her character obviously not digging Enzo doesn't help either.

 

Her attempt to be E&C's cheerleader really comes off like she's riding their coattails too. Thank goodness it looks like they are using that to make her a full heel manager (she may become the only other true heel NXT wrestler).

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They've cut Corbin down a bit because he hasn't developed like they had hoped and Bliss doesn't really have anything that connects with the crowd outside of her being cute and petite and sparkly. It's a weird dynamic. The whole place is in flux right now with the new influx of talent that's on the way in the next few weeks and supposedly in the months to come, too.

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Hideo Itami signed in July 2014 and was on NXT television two months later.

 

Solomon Crowe signed in July 2013 and didn't even make it to NXT television until February. 

 

The "some time to acclimate" argument doesn't really work as well for Crowe as it would for Itami.

 

 

Crowe was injured for a good chunk of those 18 months but feel free to keep doubling down on your argument that he's just not acclimating.

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So, some of you are going to turn on NXT by pretending that the fans in house are ABOUT TO turn on NXT? "I'm going to turn on the smarks before they have time to turn on NXT which they may or may not do" is the most PBR/Decemberist/handlebar mustache thing I'll see this week.

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Weren't the Ascension really over in NXT as recently as December?

 

Konnor was over as a Hack Myers-like character, to the point they'd yell "Shah!" with his strikes. Victor wasn't over. And the moment they got attached to Itami, their overness dropped like a rock.

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So, some of you are going to turn on NXT by pretending that the fans in house are ABOUT TO turn on NXT? "I'm going to turn on the smarks before they have time to turn on NXT which they may or may not do" is the most PBR/Decemberist/handlebar mustache thing I'll see this week.

 

It reminds me of people saying the crowd was turning on Reigns months before they were actually turning on him.

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I just want to say that I may have been the first person to preemptively turn on NXT when the ROH/Japan/indie dudes made their appearance on the roster.

I am saying this in jest. Sami Zayn and Neville both came from those worlds and I love both of them. Kevin Owens has been absolutely great in the New Age Vader thing he's been doing. I like Itami a ton. Finn Balor has gone from "I hate this dude so friggin' much" to how I view Arrested Development -- it's just not my cup of tea. Crowe needs some work with the gimmick.

But a lot of NXT's charm when it went to Full Sail were these great characters finding their voices. Stuff like The Wyatt Family with Bray in the chair giving marching orders was just great. Or Aiden English singing Gilbert and Sullivan as people throw roses at him. Or Emma. Or Sylvester LaFort.

The best example of this is Bo Dallas. He was the most entertaining and ridiculous character in wrestling. The whole "NO! Movement" and his fleeing security and PowerPoint presentation is pretty much exactly what I want and need in wrestling. They still have their goofy bits since all those dudes came over, but I'd like a little more of the tongue-in-cheek and a little less of Finn Balor's entrance.

Essentially, I think NXT has become 10% more "serious" the past few months. They still have Enzo and Cass and Bayley. I just want more of that.

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That said, a Champion Bo Dallas vs. Finn Balor feud would be a blast. I'd love for Bo to constantly escape with the belt via cowardly and duplicitous means when taking on Finn. But The Demon? That becomes another thing entirely with no escape.

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