Cristobal Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Y'know, I think I've got a handle on Orton's problem. His character and his ringwork are kind of at cross-purposes. As a babyface in the ring, he sells well, has a pretty good comeback in him, and his spots work against any heel on the roster. As a character, though, he's really just a heel who isn't happening to do dastardly things at the moment. As a heel, his character fits, (I feel like his run as "anointed Face of the WWE" was a bit underrated around here,) but in the ring, his control sequences are pedestrian, his spots don't fit, and his pace is glacial, sort of HHH-esque without the little things that Hunter would do to make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanChessgame Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Orton/Sting vs HHH/Rollins would make a lot of sense, and probably be a better match than either of the singles matches would be. I agree with this and have been figuring such a match is how they'll use these guys at Mania, but am a bit bummed they're wasting Rollins in such a spot when he could have a much better singles match with someone else. You can't really say it's a step down for him, since whatever the match ends up being will probably be marketed as the co-main. Kane or Big Show could easily be put in Rollins' spot or added to the match to make it a 3 way. The best way this match could end is with a double turn. Orton turns on Sting and re-joins the Authority, while Rollins gets beaten down by the Authority afterwards, or just quits because he's tired of being their lackey. You could even keep him heel by having him become Heyman's new charge after Brock leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEN! Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 What's the upside to running Reigns as the top face right now? As far as I know he's not moving much more merch than guys like Dean and Bryan. He's not any more over than 6 or 7 of the other top faces, and his work and promos are the worst out of the bunch. They've got Bryan, Cena, Orton, Ziggler, Ambrose, Sting, Taker, and Mizdow who will all be extremely over as baby faces at Mania(well except maybe Cena lol). Why the forced Reigns push when they have so many other guys to bridge the gap until he's ready? WWE's like a year into flipping their business model on its ear. They already changed the company logo. They changed the main championship belt. Yet the face of the company is the same guy that's been there for like a decade. They need to pull the trigger on someone and Reigns is the best candidate by far. He's a cool athletic jock with mainstream appeal. Daniel Bryan's great in the ring but he's a weird little guy that looks like he lives under a bridge. He gets big reactions in the building but I don't get the feeling that he makes any difference in any of the metrics. Those fans in the building YES'ing were probably already going to the show whether he was on it or not. I know it's rare but at least when Cena goes away and comes back, there's a noticeable bump up across the board. Also, if they go with Bryan again then post-WrestleMania we're right back to Bryan vs. The Authority. He's already wrestling Kane every week. With Reigns on top at least there's fresh programs ready with Rollins, Rusev, Wyatt, a heel Daniel Bryan, heel Sheamus, and even babyface Cena. WWE dropped the ball with Orton. They shit the bed with Ryback. They fumbled with Big E. They really can't afford to mess up with Reigns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bink_winkleman Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 They did everything they could to push Orton to the moon. Evolution lasted forever and he was treated like royalty. They put his dad in the Hall of Fame to get him over, for fuck's sake. He couldn't get the job done, got outshined by Cena and then kept on with the endless suspensions. And still managed a pretty stellar career. But yeah, they screwed up Ryback from the get-go. Big E, eh, I dunno. I also don't think "cool athletic jock" is going to connect with the crowd that big in 2015, and it's certainly not going to get much attention outside of wrestling. And even if it were, you can't just plug a guy in and make him the top guy without an organic build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Mann Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 If they could just somehow COMBINE the two of them, they'd have their guy for the next decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebbie Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Orton works best against guys that like to pinball for his offense. If he has good matches with Ziggles, I don't see why him vs Rollins would be bad. Rollins even does way flashier shit than Ziggles too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Ziggles Stop 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 So what'll the undercard be?I-C: Barrett-Ambrose, I guess...can they draw that out until then? More likely that they're both be thrown into the battle royal. Tag: Usos-Ascension, I would guess. I imagine the Usos beat the Brass Ring Club at Fast Lane. Divas': Depends on when Charlotte gets promoted to the main roster. Some combination of Nikki-Paige-Charlotte. Will probably just be an entire-division schmozz, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I have no doubt Rollins/Orton would be a good match it's just something that should be beneath Rollins at this point. Taking the MVP of the last 8 months, and sticking him in the 5th or 6th most important match at Mania while a guy who's leaving, and a bunch of grandpa's wrestle the important matches is exactly why they have to force someone like Reigns to make a new star. I've seen no indication Reigns has mainstream appeal beyond some horny house wives screaming for him. My adult friends who watch casually say he sucks, and is only getting pushed because he's Rock's cousin. The people I know who are hardcore fans prefer Bryan. I think he'd make a great heel, and there's big money in Bryan chasing douche heel champ Reigns. I don't think he has the skill set to be a top face in WWE. The match dies whenever he starts selling. He's just so boring in that regard. WWE fans expect 20+ minute epic main events, and the tv is structured around top guys cutting long promos. Those things will have to be adjusted with Reigns on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I guess the preshow will be either Goldust vs. Stardust or Miz vs. Sandow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoychers Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 They could revert Stardust back to Cody Rhodes and do a Legacy reboot, maybe with Axel in place of Dibiase? Keep Orton away until the night of Mania, and have him jump Stinger after the match. Then they could put Sting on the shelf in a follow-up with the Legend Killer schtick, allowing him to return at Summerslam or Mania the following year to go over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bink_winkleman Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The problem with heel Reigns is working around what they're doing with Rollins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Yeah and the problem with turning Rollins face is it puts him and Ambrose on the same side. Tweener badass Reigns may be their best bet. Just let the fans react however they want, but don't have him sucking up, and cutting corny ass promos. The adult males would probably come around if he gets good enough in the ring. I'd also have him lose the Shield gear, and the entrance through the crowd. He's coming off like a dude that can't let go of the good old days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overly Critical Man Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I've seen no indication Reigns has mainstream appeal beyond some horny house wives screaming for him. Horny housewives IS the mainstream. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuerrillaMonsoon Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Could you re-do the Diesel-Shawn program from say Mania 95 through to Good Friends Bitter Enemies with Reigns and Rollins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Bad News Barrett © vs. Dolph Ziggler Ascension vs. The Usos © Stardust vs. Dustin Rhodes Nikki Bella vs. Brie Bella vs. Natalya vs. Paige Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royale Insert Stipulation Here: John Cena vs. Ryback Bray Wyatt vs. The Undertaker Sting & Roman Reigns vs. Triple H & Seth Rollins Daniel Bryan vs. Brock Lesnar If they haven't pulled the trigger on Orton returning already, I don't think they will until the night after WrestleMania when he saves Bryan from getting cashed in on by Rollins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooker Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 What's the upside to running Reigns as the top face right now? As far as I know he's not moving much more merch than guys like Dean and Bryan. He's not any more over than 6 or 7 of the other top faces, and his work and promos are the worst out of the bunch. They've got Bryan, Cena, Orton, Ziggler, Ambrose, Sting, Taker, and Mizdow who will all be extremely over as baby faces at Mania(well except maybe Cena lol). Why the forced Reigns push when they have so many other guys to bridge the gap until he's ready? WWE's like a year into flipping their business model on its ear. They already changed the company logo. They changed the main championship belt. Yet the face of the company is the same guy that's been there for like a decade. They need to pull the trigger on someone and Reigns is the best candidate by far. He's a cool athletic jock with mainstream appeal. Daniel Bryan's great in the ring but he's a weird little guy that looks like he lives under a bridge. He gets big reactions in the building but I don't get the feeling that he makes any difference in any of the metrics. Those fans in the building YES'ing were probably already going to the show whether he was on it or not. I know it's rare but at least when Cena goes away and comes back, there's a noticeable bump up across the board. Also, if they go with Bryan again then post-WrestleMania we're right back to Bryan vs. The Authority. He's already wrestling Kane every week. With Reigns on top at least there's fresh programs ready with Rollins, Rusev, Wyatt, a heel Daniel Bryan, heel Sheamus, and even babyface Cena. WWE dropped the ball with Orton. They shit the bed with Ryback. They fumbled with Big E. They really can't afford to mess up with Reigns. The NFL grew massively under Peyton Manning who is all five-head above the eyebrows and ground beef below it. Roman Reigns has a great look and is just awful in all the talent categories. He is Tim Tebow, who can't even get a job in the CFL. I don't think Bryan or even Ambrose (who seems like a flat-out home run to me, despite the last five months) are going to lead to another Austin-style boom, but the least they could do is push the people audiences actually like. If Urkel becomes a star, you make the show about Urkel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Also, if they go with Bryan again then post-WrestleMania we're right back to Bryan vs. The Authority. He's already wrestling Kane every week. This is assuming the Authority makes it past Mania without Sting getting rid of them once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Mike brought this up to Dave on the RAW report and I agree with it.. Why not just put Reigns vs. Cena? A win over Cena would do just as much if not more for Reigns than a win over Lesnar. You don't need to change their characters. Cena can be Cena (they've already referenced how he's on his last leg as a top guy) and Reigns can be the anti-hero too cool for school man of few words. It would be the top guy from the Ruthless Aggression Era vs. maybe the top guy from this new generation. So then you have Lesnar vs. Bryan and Reigns vs. Cena which is far more interesting to me than Lesnar vs. Reigns and Bryan vs. Ziggler and Cena vs. Rusev in a rematch from Fast Lane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I suggested Cena/Reigns on the first page of this thread because I thought that was the way to get Reigns a positive reaction. Now I think the hardcore fans would side with Cena. If anything this push of Roman has made people respect Cena more because we all know at least with Cena we'll get a good money promo, and a good ppv match. Maybe this was Vince's master plan all along push someone so bad that the fans would beg for 10 more years of Cena lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 If anything this push of Roman has made people respect Cena more because we all know at least with Cena we'll get a good money promo, and a good ppv match. You'd be surprised. Even in 2015, we don't all know that. Ambrose gets to work one of his Sandman tribute matches on the big stage, right? That's all I really want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Personal Jesus Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I think one of the main points people miss when talking about Reigns push is the fact that honestly in 2015, "cool athletic jock" types aren't liked in mainstream media AT ALL. Nowadays, nerds like Daniel Bryan ARE the new cool. Cool, good looking guy is basically now douche by default while nerds are lovable and easy to get behind. Breaking Bad, Big Bang, etc, have all led to this new geek chic revolution in society. Girls still want to fuck the douchebags, but that doesn't make them likable, it makes them bangable. No amount of improvement by Reigns is gonna make people like him much, unless you have that 1% charisma that a guy like Rock has, which Reigns clearly doesn't. Honestly, fantasy booking, I'd much rather Reigns turn heel and do a WWE Bullet Club redux with and Finn Balor maybe the Usos or something rather than be top face. I know some wrestling fans find it hard to accept change in terms of "what works" in the business, but DB and Sami Zayn type guys really are the type of company ace this generation needs, weird as it may seem to some. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 What's the upside to running Reigns as the top face right now? As far as I know he's not moving much more merch than guys like Dean and Bryan. He's not any more over than 6 or 7 of the other top faces, and his work and promos are the worst out of the bunch. They've got Bryan, Cena, Orton, Ziggler, Ambrose, Sting, Taker, and Mizdow who will all be extremely over as baby faces at Mania(well except maybe Cena lol). Why the forced Reigns push when they have so many other guys to bridge the gap until he's ready? WWE's like a year into flipping their business model on its ear. They already changed the company logo. They changed the main championship belt. Yet the face of the company is the same guy that's been there for like a decade. They need to pull the trigger on someone and Reigns is the best candidate by far. He's a cool athletic jock with mainstream appeal. Daniel Bryan's great in the ring but he's a weird little guy that looks like he lives under a bridge. He gets big reactions in the building but I don't get the feeling that he makes any difference in any of the metrics. Those fans in the building YES'ing were probably already going to the show whether he was on it or not. I know it's rare but at least when Cena goes away and comes back, there's a noticeable bump up across the board. Also, if they go with Bryan again then post-WrestleMania we're right back to Bryan vs. The Authority. He's already wrestling Kane every week. With Reigns on top at least there's fresh programs ready with Rollins, Rusev, Wyatt, a heel Daniel Bryan, heel Sheamus, and even babyface Cena. WWE dropped the ball with Orton. They shit the bed with Ryback. They fumbled with Big E. They really can't afford to mess up with Reigns. The NFL grew massively under Peyton Manning who is all five-head above the eyebrows and ground beef below it. Roman Reigns has a great look and is just awful in all the talent categories. He is Tim Tebow, who can't even get a job in the CFL.. Tebow is a way better promo than Roman Reigns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebbie Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 WWE dropped the ball with Orton. They shit the bed with Ryback. They fumbled with Big E. They really can't afford to mess up with Reigns.Orton has been a top guy for almost ten fucking years. Ryback got push before a returning Rock (a guy that shown to actually move number and boost PPV sales) but Ryback has also show that he can get over anything they want him to be over.Where the fuck does Big E come close to those guys? He hasn't shown any personality and being a JTTS's girlfriend's lackey isn't a big push. It just means he was given a cliche role and got an IC title reign that didn't mean shit because the guy didn't know how to connect wih the crowd. Which doesn't mean something since they ain't teaching down in developmental because they don't give a fuck about the guys Ty ain't pushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zheroen Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 WWE dropped the ball with Orton. They shit the bed with Ryback. They fumbled with Big E. They really can't afford to mess up with Reigns.Orton has been a top guy for almost ten fucking years. Ryback got push before a returning Rock (a guy that shown to actually move number and boost PPV sales) but Ryback has also show that he can get over anything they want him to be over.Where the fuck does Big E come close to those guys? He hasn't shown any personality and being a JTTS's girlfriend's lackey isn't a big push. It just means he was given a cliche role and got an IC title reign that didn't mean shit because the guy didn't know how to connect wih the crowd. Which doesn't mean something since they ain't teaching down in developmental because they don't give a fuck about the guys Ty ain't pushing. I have no idea what the hell any of this means. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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