[POLL] 2015 DVDVR HALL OF FAME BALLOT

[The Man Known as Dan]

No way can I vote for Bonds

Then I guess you think there shouldn't be a hall of fame because he is unquestionably the greatest hitter to ever live.

Babe Ruth.

[Jenalysis]

McGriff's not really a hero, but he is a marginal case who I have fondness for.  That's enough for 1 out of 10 votes.

Larry Walker I will defend as one of the 10 most deserving players on here.

 

BTW I consider Aaron the best overall hitter who ever lived.  Not Ruth or Bonds.  Aaron would have been a HOFer even at only 400HRs for his career.

 

My grandpa's last year in pro ball he played with Eddie Matthews during his first full year.  He's go to work, get off work, drink beer, pitch nine innings.   He was a bit good for the level at that point, but his chance for a ML career was long gone so he settled down.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Babe Ruth.

Eh, I don't know what to make of 1920's baseball. Why are guys throwing 40 or 50 complete games and their arms not falling off? How good could they have even been by the 8th or 9th inning throwing all those pitches? And what do I make of no black players allowed?

Certainly Babe Ruth was iconic and when you look at shit like him hitting more home runs than entire teams it opens your eyes but I can't comment on it because I know nothing about it...

I could rephrase and say Bonds is the greatest hitter that any of US have ever seen?

[Tabe]

Bonds was better than Ruth at both of their peaks.  In 2001, when he wasn't walked, he hit a home run 15% of the time.  He has the top three OPS+ seasons of all-time.  He has the top two OBP seasons of all-time, well ahead of 3rd place (.609 and .582 vs .552).  He has the #1, #4, and #5 slg% seasons of all-time.  And he did all of that while playing in an integrated, international major league with cross-country travel, specialized pitchers, hardly any days off, night games, and unbelievable media scrutiny.

 

Ruth was a better player but Bonds was the better hitter.

[OSJ]

Okay, point by point...

 

There are worse in at that position. This is perhaps the most specious argument that one can make and should be beneath you. Tony Pena was a far better catcher than Rick Ferrell, so let's get him in stat! But wait, Elston Howard was even better during his peak, we'd best put him too.

 

I hate having to argue against one of my favorite players on my favorite team, but McGriff's argument looks a bit like this, he was a great first baseman with the misfortune to play at a time when there were not a couple, but several players at the position who were better offensively, and one contemporary who was peak for peak better both offensively and defensively, Will Clark...

 

Larry Walker is a Canadian Chuck Klein. No shame in that, but the Murph comparison is spot on.

 

As to the roids issue, I don't care what you're sticking in your ass, to hit HRs the way Big Mac did was astonishing. I won't champion Sosa; more due to his penchant for corked bats as much as anything else. Sosa would do anything he could to cheat, and worse, he was stupid about it and got caught (more than once).

McGriff's my homer pick.  There are 1B worse than him who have gotten in.  Plus he will always make the Defensive Skills Drills video HOF.   Also was a key part of the strongest Braves team of their run.

 

 

As for Larry Walker- even if it was Coors Field- his offensive numbers were insane, and they were good Early on in Montreal, which was a pitcher's park, so it wasn't all Coors.   Also a great defensive RFer , not Heyward class, but close.

 

Was still going strong at the end, could have played longer if he had wished and added to counting stats.

 

Larry Walker > Dale Murphy easily, and that hurts me to say but it's true.  I think he's underrated.

 

My rule on roids is I guess what the roids did for the player, and adjust.  Bonds is a HOFer under that criteria, Clemens almost is, Sosa is a Dale Murphy case, McGwire would have been replacement-level.  Non-HR, non-power pitcher stats are a bonus in these cases.   Also, I require proof of roiding, not just suspicion (so Bagwell I count as legit)

[Tabe]

McGriff's my homer pick.  There are 1B worse than him who have gotten in.  Plus he will always make the Defensive Skills Drills video HOF.   Also was a key part of the strongest Braves team of their run.   Also character.

That said, I do find it funny they picked a guy who didn't have a great defensive rep for those videos.  I guess Mark Grace wasn't avaliable.

 

As for Larry Walker- even if it was Coors Field- his offensive numbers were insane, and they were good Early on in Montreal, which was a pitcher's park, so it wasn't all Coors.   Also a great defensive RFer , not Heyward class, but close.

 

Was still going strong at the end, could have played longer if he had wished and added to counting stats.

 

Larry Walker > Dale Murphy easily, and that hurts me to say but it's true.  I think he's underrated.   Walker also gets bonus points for character, I remember him being considered one of the ambassadors of the 90s, like how Dale Murphy was in the 80s. 

 

My rule on roids is I guess what the roids did for the player, and adjust.  Bonds is a HOFer under that criteria, Clemens almost is, Sosa is a Dale Murphy case, McGwire would have been replacement-level.  Non-HR, non-power pitcher stats are a bonus in these cases.   Also, I require proof of roiding, not just suspicion (so Bagwell I count as legit, as I would Andruw Jones even if his career died early due to a case of the Chris Hero diet)

 

I'll admit to bias against Curt Schilling for his level of douchebaggery post-career, he's hall of very good.

 

As for Pedro- he is HOF-worthy, ran out of names, I would vote him in most years. 

I love Larry.  He was a helluva player.  But the guy hit .282 for his career away from Coors.  As for Coors, yeah, he put up insane numbers there.  But so did Dante Bichette.

[OSJ]

Okay, I've seen Mantle, Mays, Aaron, and everyone else that came along after 1962 (which is the first year I remember watching baseball, by 1967 I was obsessed to thee point that I could tell you the career BA of every major league player who appeared on a Topps card. ;-) I have never seen a better hitter than Barry Bonds. Never. I will agree with Tabe as to Ruth being a better player, because as we all know, he was a force to reckon with as a pitcher and the only thing Barry knew about pitching was that it was easy to hit.

[RonL21]

Wasn't Walker flirting w/ .400 when he was with that great Expos team that had the best record in the Majors before the Strike?

[Niners Fan in CT]

He had a good year going but I believe it was in Colorado where he was flirting with .400 , One year he hit like .379 but I'm not sure if that's the year he was over .400 deep into the season. He had a couple .360+ years out there.

[OSJ]

Wasn't Walker flirting w/ .400 when he was with that great Expos team that had the best record in the Majors before the Strike?

 

Yes, and Graig Nettles was leading the league in HRs IIRC. Your point being?

[Niners Fan in CT]

I think he was just asking a question.

[RonL21]

Wasn't Walker flirting w/ .400 when he was with that great Expos team that had the best record in the Majors before the Strike?

Yes, and Graig Nettles was leading the league in HRs IIRC. Your point being?

Greatness transcends the thin air at Coors Field

[OSJ]

Yes, and if I put Matt Williams best half-seasons together, he hits over 61 single-season taters long before Big Mac and Sosa. No one has said that Larry Walker wasn't an excellent player, he was, he also benefitted tremendously from Coors Field or do really think his performance would have been at all comparable elsewhere? I'm not saying his h/r splits are Jim Rice bad, but there is a significant difference that as a fair-minded fan you should not ignore.

[OSJ]

And I know a loaded question when I see one...

I think he was just asking a question.

[BobbyWhioux]

Ten Is Not Enough.

 

It might be the least of my axes to grind with the hall of fame selection process, but more than 10 of those guys are Hall Of Fame worthy.

[BobbyWhioux]

It's Alphabetical Order's Fault I didn't vote for Tim Raines.

 

(also the BBWAA for not putting in certain people already thus their still being on the ballot and needing my vote)

[BobbyWhioux]

Mattingly can also still improve his Hall Of Fame resume by having success as a manager (i.e. winning a world series or two)

 

Not that I am in any way advocating any sort of dystopian future wherein the Dodgers have started winning championships again but it might be an interesting exercise to think about how much "combined weight" he would need.

[OSJ]

Let's see... A beloved 1B who played in NY. A fine all-around player, generally considered one of the best at his position during the time he played. Also well-loved in Los Angeles. A fine manager who took a perennially under-performing team to undreamed of heights. Don Mattingly? No, I'm talking about Gil Hodges, and he ain't getting in either.

[Kuetsar]

I would think it would take twenty solid years of managing and two or three titles. Joe Torre's numbers as a player are better in some respects.  Don't ban me for that Rippa. . . please?

[Tabe]

Wasn't Walker flirting w/ .400 when he was with that great Expos team that had the best record in the Majors before the Strike?

No. He was never close to .400 that year.

[RIPPA]

Last year we got around 58 votes

So I will wait until the day the ballots are due or until we get around that number to close this.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Who are these people not voting for Pedro. Come on.

[BobbyWhioux]

I blame Reverse Alphabetical Order and, again, the BBWAA's past stupidity leaving the ballot too stacked with good candidates.

 

There's about 5 more guys above the maximum I think I'd have voted for

[RIPPA]

Right now - 4 guys would be "inducted" in our poll, with one guy a vote short.

[Cristobal]

So basically we suck almost as bad as the writers.