Tromatagon Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I think I realized I watch too much wrestling. Started describing the giant dump I took to my friend in terms of wrestlers. Poosev, flush. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 When I was regularly doing comedy open-mics, I nearly referred to my favorite set-closing joke as my "go-home". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 good news for WWE developmental, Sim Bhullar (7'5/350lb basketball player) went undrafted by the NBA, so he's closer than ever to either a trip to Orlando, or a career playing basketball in Slovakia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peck Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 5:55 mark. I vaguely seem to remember reading about gorilla telling referees to do various wacky things during dark matches (Korderas book, maybe?) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caley Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 good news for WWE developmental, Sim Bhullar (7'5/350lb basketball player) went undrafted by the NBA, so he's closer than ever to either a trip to Orlando, or a career playing basketball in Slovakia I smell a brother for Rusev! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Ray Von Erich Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Steve Bradley does a hell of a Cross Rhodes before those ref shenanigans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneybrown Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 http://deadspin.com/in-which-virgil-tells-the-filthiest-andre-the-giant-sto-1596581696 This was pretty funny. That was a good read, but come on: "Filthiest Andre the Giant Story of All Time?" That wouldn't even crack the top ten. Greg needs to flaunt those excessive hyperbole talents of his into writing online headlines, websites lap that shit up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 good news for WWE developmental, Sim Bhullar (7'5/350lb basketball player) went undrafted by the NBA, so he's closer than ever to either a trip to Orlando, or a career playing basketball in Slovakia He's going to join the Orlando Magic summer team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoeCristyV.1.6 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 He's going to Disney World! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteCarl Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Listening to the Steve Austin interview with Christopher Daniels and they were talking about the "art of professional wrestling" and if it's been lost. Then Steve asked if maybe it's not the art of the wrestling that has been lost, but has the art of being a WRESTLING FAN been lost? They quickly moved on, disappointingly, but that question really stuck with me and thought it would make for good discussion. HAS the art of being a wrestling fan been lost? Fans these days are all "smart" for the most part. Everybody is in on the "fix" and knows what's going on, so instead of people talking now about what Dusty Rhodes is going to do to get his revenge on the Horsemen after they broke his arm in the parking lot, they're talking about who's going to be pushed and what storyline is Daniel Bryan going to end up in. Instead of sitting and watching and getting invested in the shows, they are tweeting during matches or watching the Tron to see if they're on TV. Instead of cheering and booing the guys in the ring, they are chanting for Randy Savage and trying to get themselves over. (as a side note, I am using "they" in the universal form. Obviously not EVERYBODY in every crowd is like this. "They" in this case are these specific people who I'm referencing for this argument's purpose). I know this has somewhat been talked about before when RAW or a PPV is in a well-known "smark city" and everybody talks about how shitty the crowd was, and I don't want to use this potential discussion to talk about how shitty crowds are shitty. But I do think there is something to be said about how a great crowd who plays along, so to speak, really makes what's happening on screen much better. Look at the difference between the crowds for TNA and the crowds for NXT. NXT crowds are smarky in a sense, but they always seem to be playing along. TNA crowds just don't give a fuck, and it shows. Which show is way more enjoyable, even though it's full of green rookies learning in front of our eyes? I don't think anybody would argue that NXT is a way more enjoyable show than TNA, and a huge part of that is that their crowds "get it". They understand their roll. So, has the "Art of being a Wrestling Fan" been lost in this skeptical, cynical internet age? And is perhaps this a cause of the decline of the popularity of wrestling as a whole? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bourdain Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 No as with everything things evolve and change, the wrestling fan moved on with the advent of new technologies but wrestling itself didn't and is still stuck inside it's little bubble by and large. Things are changing though the most excellent example of which is Daniel Bryan's ascent to the top. Everyone believes that it was the crowd being incessantly behind him that forced WWE managament's hand in putting the championship on him. To me it seems like a new sort of work: OK, we can't make you believe that what's going on in the ring in front of your eyes is real, but you don't see what's happening backstage and this is what we REALLY think about Bryan. So, Triple H and Stephanie get a ton of heat and Bryan gets incredible support from the audience's perception of what they believe is happening with respect to backstage politics, and the audience is then invested in the on screen material via the meta-story in a non traditional manner. The internet can't be unmade, embracing it with the whole Network/Twitter/Youtube thing shows WWE is finally catching up with it's audience. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebbie Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 The internet can't be unmade, embracing it with the whole Network/Twitter/Youtube thing shows WWE is finally catching up with it's audience. How pretentious and thanks for proving his point. As a fan, I don't think my view point as changed as to what I like in wrestling. I like when the storyline is simple enough because it boils down to good vs evil and the matches are two to x many people fighting each other because they fucking hate each other. Which is why when people post gifs of indy wrestling, I can't roll my eyes enough. Wrestling isn't suppose to be pretty to look at, it's suppose to keep your attention. You see one shitty movezy spot, you've seen them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsewhite Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I don't think a simple statement of reality is pretentious, and I don't think calling someones somewhat in depth response pretentious aids in discussion. Wrestling is almost entirely pretension and artifice, btw. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fresh Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 The internet can't be unmade, embracing it with the whole Network/Twitter/Youtube thing shows WWE is finally catching up with it's audience. How pretentious and thanks for proving his point. Wow, what a dick-ish response. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 The internet can't be unmade, embracing it with the whole Network/Twitter/Youtube thing shows WWE is finally catching up with it's audience. How pretentious and thanks for proving his point. Yeah, "WWE is learning to work fans by using internet rumors against them" is REALLY pretentious, champ. On topic, I think the only thing that really is hurt by modern wrestling fans is that it is hard to get heels over as heels if they are 1.) even a teeny bit cool or 2.) good in-ring. To get a heel over as a heel, you need a guy who is mediocre in-ring and is also a real douchebag. Though everyone copied him eventually and made it less effective, Jericho figuring out how to garner heel heat by wearing a suit and speaking in a monotone voice was pretty daring. He could have easily acted like typical Jericho except heelish and it wouldn't have worked. Maybe that's the problem: Heels have too many catchphrases and cool spots (even NXT fans do that ridiculous HYAH thing for the heel Ascension when they beat a dude down in the corner), and fans will eventually cheer for it. Maybe the onus is on heels to be as unlikable as possible while being competent, but not flashy in the ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteCarl Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 To get a heel over as a heel, you need a guy who is mediocre in-ring and is also a real douchebag. So....The Miz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fresh Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 The internet can't be unmade, embracing it with the whole Network/Twitter/Youtube thing shows WWE is finally catching up with it's audience. How pretentious and thanks for proving his point. Yeah, "WWE is learning to work fans by using internet rumors against them" is REALLY pretentious, champ. On topic, I think the only thing that really is hurt by modern wrestling fans is that it is hard to get heels over as heels if they are 1.) even a teeny bit cool or 2.) good in-ring. To get a heel over as a heel, you need a guy who is mediocre in-ring and is also a real douchebag. Though everyone copied him eventually and made it less effective, Jericho figuring out how to garner heel heat by wearing a suit and speaking in a monotone voice was pretty daring. He could have easily acted like typical Jericho except heelish and it wouldn't have worked. Maybe that's the problem: Heels have too many catchphrases and cool spots (even NXT fans do that ridiculous HYAH thing for the heel Ascension when they beat a dude down in the corner), and fans will eventually cheer for it. Maybe the onus is on heels to be as unlikable as possible while being competent, but not flashy in the ring. I've been thinking about this a lot. And I'm honestly not sure "Heels need to be genuinely hated and people wanna see them get beat up" is what draws money anymore. In this era of Joker far outshining Dark Knight and all of us rooting for Tony Soprano and Walter White, the formula of this generation may be to give us two guys we kinda like for different reasons and let's see them fight. Understand, I'm not saying that for certain, I really don't know. It keeps me awake at night, man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Yeah, it could also be that Vince Russo actually was right about shades of grey and just didn't have the writing or characterization chops to actually pull this off himself. Good point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fresh Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Yeah, it could also be that Vince Russo actually was right about shades of grey and just didn't have the writing or characterization chops to actually pull this off himself. Good point. Because I don't wanna say the phrase "Vince Russo was right" could also be why I'm avoiding 100% committing to my theory. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fresh Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 But really, the most talked-about angle WWE did in the last 5 years was probably Punk vs. Cena MITB 2011. And Punk certainly wasn't a true heel there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteCarl Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Also, the build up and execution of The Shield vs The Wyatts while both were still heels had some of the biggest crowd reactions and buzz around it than just about anything else in recent memory. Them just standing across from each other in the ring facing off for the first time got a huge "This Is Awesome" chant 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 There was a point in the discussion in Jericho's podcast with Heyman and Edge about how they can't really watch wrestling any more, because "there's no going back." Edge noted that once you've been on the inside, you can't go back to being the fan who watched in amazement as Hogan slammed Andre. That's done for you. To a lesser extent, it's the same for that portion of the fanbase that has chosen to try to take what peeks behind the curtain they can. But, y'know, maybe they were just being really pretentious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Guys, don't hate on Ebbie. Antacular and FSW are gone, and someone was bound to try and fill the void. I'm not sure I agree with more shades of gray in wrestling, but I think that wrestling heels have gotten away from justifying their actions in a compelling fashion. When we get things like Bray Wyatt telling us why he is trying to tear down John Cena, or CM Punk telling us why he joins up with Paul Heyman or leaves with the belt, it is interesting because the fans decide how relevant they feel that line of reasoning is. We can project and think about what we would do in a similar situation, and it gives us more of a connection to at least one of the participants in the feud. When the heel is someone like Alberto Del Rio or any number of other guys, and the reason they do things that are nefarious boils down to "I'm a dick, I guess", there is no reason to invest for us. There is no reason to think about how we would react, or how backstage politics might have effected this in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooseCannon Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 The biggest heel in wrestling is WWE creative. The idea top heel is someone who is good in the ring but who fans think is mediocre/bad and over-pushed. The best way to get a face over is to make fans think he's being held back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 This is just another one of those "Wrestling should be exactly like it was when I was a kid" arguments. I've said it before and no one really wants to hear it, but wrestling at its core didn't change, you just grew up. And that's fine, that's normal, but this hipster "anti-smark" attitude of "It should still be real to me, damn it" is quite frankly ridiculous. The reason you don't get immersed in wrestling like you did when you were little is the same reason you don't get immersed in Power Rangers or Transformers or Batman or whatever. When you get older, you view tv and movies differently. You view them more as art and less as alternate reality. As your brain develops and you go through school and are made to read/watch creative works and likely produce some of your own at a low level, you begin to understand things like developing characters, telling a story, and captivating and audience. While wrestling is considered low-brow by the mainstream, it really is a creative art, and that's how most people who watch view it, whether they're in tune with backstage gossip or not (for comparison, consider how you view big Hollywood movies regardless of whether or not you check TMZ every day). People want to see characters they like, action scenes that are compelling, and conclusions to stories that tug at the old heart strings. It doesn't mean you can't get invested, emotionally involved, or be an active participant at a live display. Just like any other creative art, it's designed to click with you emotionally. By the same token, it's also perfectly normal to discuss things like the creator's intent, how effective the message is, how well the performers pulled it off, etc. Both are perfectly healthy and normal ways to view performance art. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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