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DVDVRMM: R2 Match 4: AMBROSE vs. OKADA


AMBROSE vs. OKADA  

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  1. 1. WILL AMBROSE BE THE FIRST SHIELD MEMBER TO FALL!!?!?!?



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Jae, come on.. I'm as big of a wwe fan as there is but I'm not going to pretend the biases don't exist dude..

Yeah. They do. I don't think this match illustrates why it might've been a bad idea to include them.

 

I think Okada and Ambrose are closer in terms of in-ring ability. They both have a solid presence, though I think Ambrose's character translates better into his in ring style more than Okada's. They both have problem's selling. Ambrose will get laid out and then you can see him finding his place so he can get ready for the next spot. Okada's epics aren't always laid out particularly well, particularly the first 10-15 minutes, and I think his more highly acclaimed matches rely more on the other wrestler being good and putting him over than him being actually good. Which, in a way, you could say the same for Ambrose. They got pros and they got cons, regardless of their level on the card.

 

Telling me Okada is THE BEST DUDE IN JAPAN or that his matches are often FOUR STAR MATCHES - means not a whole lot of anything. What the hell is a four star match? It's not like baseball where a guy can have 40 home runs. I can't argue that Pujols hit 49 homeruns in a season, because that's what he did. I don't think Okada would win if this was a Lucha/Puro tournament, OR a Puro only tournament. It's not just a WWE bias, it's a taste preference, and telling me I'm supposed to vote Okada just because he's the top guy in New Japan, (despite not even closing the biggest show of the year,) is not a conducive way to widening other people's perspectives. You gotta give more than that, instead of just expecting people to vote because 4 Stars, and if they don't they're idiots.

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I lurve the member of the Shield that Roman and Seth found somewhere in the Tenderloin of San Francisco wearing a wig and screaming at a dog for using to many words that started with vowels. He is great.

 

Okada is the Japanese version of the youth movement we're finally starting to get in WWE, except he's already a year into a championship reign. I feel like most of the complaints about him are complaints about the puro style, which is sort of unfair. You may not like strong style fighting spirit, but you can't deny that Okada does it unbelievably well, and he does it while also coming to the ring accompanied by a velociraptor. 

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In Okada's defense, his not closing out Wrestle Kingdom was more looking like a long term angle and possiblty upcoming Champion vs. Champion match than him not being able to close out the big show by himself.  There aren't many people that said that Okada/Naito from WK8 wasn't better than Tanahashi/Nakamura which did close out the show.

 

Also not against Okada that he *is* the top guy in NJPW, and that NJPW is build more like 90's AJPW with a solid top card and a whole lot of blah from the upper-mid down.  Or that the guy that other's put over Okada (namely, Tanahashi), isn't really as good, and wasn't doing Okada's numbers when the rocket was strapped to his back.  

 

The only two guys that really match up to Okada in NJPW is Nakamura and Goto, and Goto spent most of the year hurt.  And sadly, Nakamura's been spending the past couple months being Tanahashi's bitch.

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I lurve the member of the Shield that Roman and Seth found somewhere in the Tenderloin of San Francisco wearing a wig and screaming at a dog for using to many words that started with vowels. He is great.

 

Okada is the Japanese version of the youth movement we're finally starting to get in WWE, except he's already a year into a championship reign. I feel like most of the complaints about him are complaints about the puro style, which is sort of unfair. You may not like strong style fighting spirit, but you can't deny that Okada does it unbelievably well, and he does it while also coming to the ring accompanied by a velociraptor. 

 

This is a totally subjective tournament. If people don't like the NPJW style, then the fact he does it well doesn't count for a ton. I get where you're coming from but you are looking at march madness from a far too lofty (and frankly misguided) place.

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In Okada's defense, his not closing out Wrestle Kingdom was more looking like a long term angle and possiblty upcoming Champion vs. Champion match than him not being able to close out the big show by himself.  

 

The long term angle that started because people wanted to see Tanahashi in the main instead?

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Much like CM Punk never won the "Being John Cena" title, Okada never won the "Being Tanahashi" title. Yes, he's got the top belt, but the fans of the company voted for someone other than him to main event that show.

 

Also, between his comments about facials and Ambrose in bed, I am scared for Piranesi.

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I lurve the member of the Shield that Roman and Seth found somewhere in the Tenderloin of San Francisco wearing a wig and screaming at a dog for using to many words that started with vowels. He is great.

 

Okada is the Japanese version of the youth movement we're finally starting to get in WWE, except he's already a year into a championship reign. I feel like most of the complaints about him are complaints about the puro style, which is sort of unfair. You may not like strong style fighting spirit, but you can't deny that Okada does it unbelievably well, and he does it while also coming to the ring accompanied by a velociraptor. 

 

This is a totally subjective tournament. If people don't like the NPJW style, then the fact he does it well doesn't count for a ton. I get where you're coming from but you are looking at march madness from a far too lofty (and frankly misguided) place.

 

 

Admittedly, I'm struggling to defend Okada because getting into the technicality of puro matches is a huge weak point for me. I can probably break an Ambrose match down second for second about why I love it, but Okada is still kind of a guy that I just watch the match and go 'I REALLY LIKE THIS' without being able to describe leg selling to you, like Jae can. 

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I lurve the member of the Shield that Roman and Seth found somewhere in the Tenderloin of San Francisco wearing a wig and screaming at a dog for using to many words that started with vowels. He is great.

 

Okada is the Japanese version of the youth movement we're finally starting to get in WWE, except he's already a year into a championship reign. I feel like most of the complaints about him are complaints about the puro style, which is sort of unfair. You may not like strong style fighting spirit, but you can't deny that Okada does it unbelievably well, and he does it while also coming to the ring accompanied by a velociraptor.

 

This is a totally subjective tournament. If people don't like the NPJW style, then the fact he does it well doesn't count for a ton. I get where you're coming from but you are looking at march madness from a far too lofty (and frankly misguided) place.

 

Admittedly, I'm struggling to defend Okada because getting into the technicality of puro matches is a huge weak point for me. I can probably break an Ambrose match down second for second about why I love it, but Okada is still kind of a guy that I just watch the match and go 'I REALLY LIKE THIS' without being able to describe leg selling to you, like Jae can.

If you have a hard time judging them on matches, move on to promos as the next criterion.

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In Okada's defense, his not closing out Wrestle Kingdom was more looking like a long term angle and possiblty upcoming Champion vs. Champion match than him not being able to close out the big show by himself.  

 

The long term angle that started because people wanted to see Tanahashi in the main instead?

 

1, that's probably the office's fault for putting the choice between Okada/Naito and Tanahashi/Nakamura Maining in the first place

2. Are we sure that's not more of a knock against Naito and Okada's just a victim of fan backlash against Naito's super push?  

 

You go back and make that IWGP match Okada/Goto or Okada/Shibata and we don't have this conversation.

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You go back and make that IWGP match Okada/Goto or Okada/Shibata and we don't have this conversation.

 

We'll never know. 

My point is that using Okada's placement on the card is a foolish argument, because that doesn't matter when it comes to what he does in the ring. It's especially foolish when whatever belt Tanahashi is wrestling for is instantly as important, if not more so than the one Okada BEAT HIM for. So even if it was an acceptable criteria for voting for someone, it wouldn't even be that good of a reason.

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I lurve the member of the Shield that Roman and Seth found somewhere in the Tenderloin of San Francisco wearing a wig and screaming at a dog for using to many words that started with vowels. He is great.

 

Okada is the Japanese version of the youth movement we're finally starting to get in WWE, except he's already a year into a championship reign. I feel like most of the complaints about him are complaints about the puro style, which is sort of unfair. You may not like strong style fighting spirit, but you can't deny that Okada does it unbelievably well, and he does it while also coming to the ring accompanied by a velociraptor.

 

This is a totally subjective tournament. If people don't like the NPJW style, then the fact he does it well doesn't count for a ton. I get where you're coming from but you are looking at march madness from a far too lofty (and frankly misguided) place.

 

 

Admittedly, I'm struggling to defend Okada because getting into the technicality of puro matches is a huge weak point for me. I can probably break an Ambrose match down second for second about why I love it, but Okada is still kind of a guy that I just watch the match and go 'I REALLY LIKE THIS' without being able to describe leg selling to you, like Jae can.

 

If you have a hard time judging them on matches, move on to promos as the next criterion.

 

 

In that case I'm counting Okada's entrances as promos and you're making me compare Deano with raptors and buster swords and breaking my god damn heart.

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You're right Jae, it doesn't, since him and Naito went out and had a better match than Tanahashi and Nakamura did that night.  

 

I push for Okada more because more often than not, he ends up having the best match of the night, consistantly, no matter who he's in the ring with, even if he's in a tag match with a way less talented partner (see: New Beginning in Hiroshima).  Its not often that Okada's not in the match of the night.  Its way more consistant than pretty boy's "get my ass kicked for 75% of the match, hit a couple Sling Blades and some top rope frog crossbody's/frog splashes and call it a night unless its Nakamura carrying my ass" match structure.  

 

Okada vs. Ambrose though, which is more on -topic:

 

Dean does a lot of stuff right, but his best stuff is when he's in 6 man tags with two guys who are better.  Okada's got a ton of good singles stuff, and he's dragged good matches out of lesser opponents (Naito springs right to mind).  that's why I'd put Okada over. 

 

 

EDIT: Reading over, it may be becoming apparent that I'm not overly fond of Tanahashi.

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You go back and make that IWGP match Okada/Goto or Okada/Shibata and we don't have this conversation.

 

We'll never know. 

My point is that using Okada's placement on the card is a foolish argument, because that doesn't matter when it comes to what he does in the ring. It's especially foolish when whatever belt Tanahashi is wrestling for is instantly as important, if not more so than the one Okada BEAT HIM for. So even if it was an acceptable criteria for voting for someone, it wouldn't even be that good of a reason.

 

My pointing out his placement on the card is mostly to illustrate how much more Okada has to do in the ring as the IWGP champion, than Ambrose has to do as 1/3 of a tag team.  Okada has to go out there and put on 20+ minute matches with a variety of guys, and he consistently delivers.  That is much more to ask from a guy than being really good at being 1/6 of a match.  Ambrose is really good, he does a lot of little things that make everything he does interesting, but comparing his body of work over an entire year to Okada's is insane to me.  It is like voting for a really good punt returner for MVP over one of the best quarterbacks in the league.  Yeah, the punt returner may be good, but you can't compare what he does to a player who has to lead the team. 

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I thought Naito brought some great stuff in that match. Both guys were good, and it was probably the first time I was really into either. 

 

I'm thinking I might go Okada though. Dean doesn't have much in the way of great singles performances. The tags are generally great, but Reigns and Rollins shine brighter, and often times so does his opponents. I really like him though, because he's crazy and he looks content to just be the weird one while the other two play the crowd. It's kind of sweet actually. Great. Now I'm not sure again. 

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I think people are overlooking the fact that there are plenty of people who watch foreign wrestling who just don't like current New Japan. Meanwhile pretty much the only person who doesn't like the Shield is FSW and he is just a sad embarrassment at this point

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I thought Naito brought some great stuff in that match. Both guys were good, and it was probably the first time I was really into either. 

 

I'm thinking I might go Okada though. Dean doesn't have much in the way of great singles performances. The tags are generally great, but Reigns and Rollins shine brighter, and often times so does his opponents. I really like him though, because he's crazy and he looks content to just be the weird one while the other two play the crowd. It's kind of sweet actually. Great. Now I'm not sure again. 

In Naito's defense, he has been putting out some good stuff, but I'm not sure how much of it is him finally working up to the push, or the guys he's been in the ring with the past couple months (Okada, Nakamura, Ishii, tagging with Tanahashi)

 

 

NintendoLogic, on 11 Mar 2014 - 1:16 PM, said:

I thought Okada not maining the Dome show was mainly due to the fact that the fans weren't buying Naito as a challenger.

 

 

That's pretty accurate.  Fans love Tanahashi, fans love Nakamura.  Fans love Okada, Naito not so much.  And no one gave the Tetitary Champ a shot in hell of beating Okada.  It'd be like thinking TV Champ Jericho stood a chance in hell against World Champ Goldberg.

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 It is like voting for a really good punt returner for MVP over one of the best quarterbacks in the league.  Yeah, the punt returner may be good, but you can't compare what he does to a player who has to lead the team. 

 

 

Or, it could be like the #2 wideout on a NFL playoff team against the MVP of the CFL. And I like New Japan a lot. But c'mon. New Japan might be #2, but that doesn't mean it's anywhere near the same level.

 

I'm not saying Okada isn't on the same level or maybe even better work-wise, but part of your argument seems to be the companies they work for, and there's really nothing to that at all.

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 It is like voting for a really good punt returner for MVP over one of the best quarterbacks in the league.  Yeah, the punt returner may be good, but you can't compare what he does to a player who has to lead the team. 

 

 

Or, it could be like the #2 wideout on a NFL playoff team against the MVP of the CFL. And I like New Japan a lot. But c'mon. New Japan might be #2, but that doesn't mean it's anywhere near the same level.

 

I'm not saying Okada isn't on the same level or maybe even better work-wise, but part of your argument seems to be the companies they work for, and there's really nothing to that at all.

 

No my argument is that Okada is a starting quarterback for a playoff team, and even if his team loses, it's not because he didn't come to play.  Ambrose is a really good punt returner, and while it's great to have a guy who can take a punt to the house, he is essentially a luxury item that can't compare to a franchise quarterback.  Okada is the better worker in a position where being a great worker is very important.  Ambrose is really good excelling in a position where he could be average and get by *cough* Eric Rowan *cough*.  If all things were equal, which they're not, I'd still take Okada. Taking into account that Okada is THE GUY there isn't much of an argument other than, I like Ambrose better because he makes crazy faces and does strange things that set him apart in 6 man tag matches. 

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