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2 hours ago, The Great ML said:

 But then we are completely removing the Orndorff turn?

Since I forgot that was a thing when I made that previous post, I think I have to say yes.

 

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On 4/10/2017 at 4:10 PM, J.H. said:

If you book Hogan/Piper in a cage then I gotta book Piper to go over but then set-up Hogan regaining the belt on SNME in October so you can build to Hogan/Andre for Mania 3. 

James

 

18 hours ago, The Great ML said:

Of course this is all fantasy scenarios, but something to remember...they had to turn Piper full face following WM 2...he was getting a lot of cheers.

That.  Plus the ideas that 1) 1980s WWF would hotshot like that, 2) put the belt on a heel and 3) Hogan would job are all absurd.  

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On 4/9/2017 at 3:29 PM, zev said:

 

Weren't the rest of the celebrities NYC based back then? Lauper was at the MTV studios in New York often, I seem to recall. At least they played her videos regularly and interviewed her now and then. Her interaction with Piper at MSG which they aired got my attention back then.

 

If you have to ask if Cyndi Lauper is from New York, then you've never heard her speak.

 

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6 minutes ago, Victator said:

There is a story from years back, he wanted to lose it to Kamala during their big house show run in 86.

Probably just so he could later twist what happened into claiming he somehow was the first African-American champion.

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On 4/9/2017 at 0:54 PM, cwoy2j said:

Here's a good what if. What if the original Rocky ended the way Stallone originally planned, with Rocky dying in the ring? If that happens, there's no Rocky III so we don't get Mr. T as Clubber Lang and we don't get Hogan as Thunderlips. Do those guys still somehow get the mainstream notoriety they got from that movie somewhere else? And if not, what happens to WM1? Is Vince still able to get all of the celebrities he did for the event without Hogan's mainstream cache? 

This is a very interesting scenario. Without Rocky III, T is getting roles as thugs or henchmen on tv shows and low A and B movies, maybe gets a part on 1st & 10, can't see him getting cast on the A-Team based on his work in Penitentiary 2 & D.C. Cab. He'd totally be going after the same roles as Tiny Lister did in the mid 80's to mid 90's.

Hogan would have cycled out of the WWF in 1981 no matter what, the story of Vince Sr. telling him not to take the role is b.s., heels didn't stay long term in the territory and Hogan was already splitting time between New Japan and the WWF at the end of his run. Hogan ending up in the AWA and the Gagne's seeing his babyface potential changed Hulk's path more than Rocky III(he turned face in the fall of 81 and Rocky III came out in the spring of 82), without Rocky III there's a chance Hogan doesn't go from super over baby face to insanely over baby face when the feud with Bockwinkle gets hot, but Vince Jr. still would have seen $$$$$ with Hogan and he was the better choice over Kerry Von Erich and Jimmy Snuka for the expansion.

Without Rocky III it's going to be a little bit harder for Vince to get his foot in the door in pushing Hogan to mainstream media but the celebrity thing started via Lou Albano, Dave Wolf and Cyndi Lauper, so Hogan's going to tag along for that ride just like he did 30some years ago.

It's really hard to describe how over Mr. T was in that time period, people thought he was a legit bad ass plus he was on a network TV show which was HUGE back then. Without Rocky III there isn't that perfect storm of Mr. T for McMahon to use so maybe WrestleMania is held off for a few years until he pulls the trigger on Hogan\Andre, I can't see McMahon putting anything together that would match WM1 without Mr. T in the mix. Stallone without the Rocky sequels goes down a different path and might be more of a serious actor\writer than movie star, Schwarzenegger would have never done it, Larry Holmes would have been interesting but I can't see McMahon doing any business with Don King at that point, maybe if he holds off a year he tags Hogan with Refrigerator Perry in Chicago but that wouldn't have done the business that WM1 did.

They could have still gotten Ali, Liberace and Billy Martin they were there for the appearance fee.

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Good analysis, happjack, but if you ever even appear to disparage ANY of the thee Penitentiary movies (esp. #3) again, we are gonna have a shooty problem.

Mr. T was pushed by a publicity agency, even had a network "sports" special written around him (NBC's "World's Toughest Bouncer", part of "Games People Play" (strangely enuff, despite not owning a TV I somehow watched this) )so if he didn't get R3 I bet he would have gotten another manly '81-'82 film role to elevate him into The A-Team (Escape From New York? Eye For An Eye? Forced Vengeance? Silent Rage?). His whole career is a work (not an insult in thee RAF book); it is debatable about who benefitted from thee first WM gig more.

All the celebs at WM1 were there for a payday, except maybe darling CLauper, who was a fan (but still got paid).

- RAF (also at WM1, tenth row, my pal Vinnie Cerroni bought my ticket, he was & is thee coolest)

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14 hours ago, thee Reverend Axl Future said:

Good analysis, happjack, but if you ever even appear to disparage ANY of the thee Penitentiary movies (esp. #3) again, we are gonna have a shooty problem.

Mr. T was pushed by a publicity agency, even had a network "sports" special written around him (NBC's "World's Toughest Bouncer", part of "Games People Play" (strangely enuff, despite not owning a TV I somehow watched this) )so if he didn't get R3 I bet he would have gotten another manly '81-'82 film role to elevate him into The A-Team (Escape From New York? Eye For An Eye? Forced Vengeance? Silent Rage?). His whole career is a work (not an insult in thee RAF book); it is debatable about who benefitted from thee first WM gig more.

All the celebs at WM1 were there for a payday, except maybe darling CLauper, who was a fan (but still got paid).

- RAF (also at WM1, tenth row, my pal Vinnie Cerroni bought my ticket, he was & is thee coolest)

None of those movies were as big as Rocky III so would the network have taken the chance on him?

I sorta remember the clips of the "World's Toughest Bouncer" they would show when T was on talk shows, wasn't it some sorta obstacle course?

I wonder what would have happened had Hogan not gone to the AWA in 1981, without the Gagne's seeing his potential as a babyface and Hogan sticks with the Superstar Graham style heel persona in say Florida or Georgia does Vince even think of using him as the babyface face of the expansion.

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On 4/12/2017 at 2:55 PM, Roman said:

Probably just so he could later twist what happened into claiming he somehow was the first African-American champion.


I can't imagine that rumor of Hogan wanting to put Kamala over for the title being remotely true. Now, him being all "well you know something dude, I was the one pitching for a black champion way before anyone else" would be totally something he'd say. But I seem to remember reading way back in the day about how Hogan was making six figures on those house shows total while Kamala barely made like $13,000 over the run. There are so many guys that Hogan ran over that would have made effective heel champions while he did a comeback for the title back then. I just can't see Kamala being one of them.

 

 

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I could see it being Kamala since it wouldn't have been likely for Kamala to get as much out of the rub from beating Hogan as others would. Putting over someone like Dibiase or Bossman for short runs with the belt could have gotten them more over and become possible threats to his spot while Kamala the risk was probably less since his gimmick probably wasn't going to have the risk of staying over long term in one territory/company. 

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On 4/13/2017 at 6:15 AM, happjack said:

None of those movies were as big as Rocky III so would the network have taken the chance on him?

 

Without Mr. T, the A-Team never happens.

 

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10 hours ago, Phantom Lord said:

I can't imagine that rumor of Hogan wanting to put Kamala over for the title being remotely true

That came from Kamala not Hogan. He said Jay Strongbow is the one who killed it. 

Hogan was the one who smartened Kamala up about how little money he was making. He told Kamala "I got my money you need to get yours."

People are also confusing what Hogan became with what he became after the Warrior loss. In the first title run he was willing to put heels over strong. He would drop matches by count out to guys like Savage, Studd, Bundy and Jesse Ventura. 

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2 hours ago, Victator said:

 In the first title run he was willing to put heels over strong. He would drop matches by count out to guys like Savage, Studd, Bundy and Jesse Ventura. 

losing by count out =/= putting someone over strong

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I don't think he really became terrible until WCW when he didn't even let Vader get over on the beatdown to set up the match.

Not saying he didn't play politics before that, but that's when he really just started giving nothing

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