DangerMark Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 On 3/7/2021 at 3:24 AM, AxB said: So why do (some) Americans pronounce it as if the i in Robin is silent? Ro-BIN. Like Robbing, without the g. Robin Hood, not Rob'n'hood. I will get back to you on this just as soon as I work out how Craig and Greg rhyme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Hero Morganti Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Random What If. The Curtain Call lead to HHH losing his push and KoTR win in 1996... what if they don't do the Curtain Call, OR Vince is fine with it and doesn't punish HHH, which means no Austin 3:16 promo...does WCW win the War but then get killed by AOL Time Warner anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shartnado Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 10 hours ago, Morganti said: Random What If. The Curtain Call lead to HHH losing his push and KoTR win in 1996... what if they don't do the Curtain Call, OR Vince is fine with it and doesn't punish HHH, which means no Austin 3:16 promo...does WCW win the War but then get killed by AOL Time Warner anyway? Completely plausable, but that would have been a rather miserable way to end both companies. Now, what would have risen from the ashes, however, could have been interesting. But without the boom (initiated by NWO and) furthered by Austin's rise to the top the audience may never reached the level that would sustain national promotion if those two fall. Very intriguing, nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Related to that, what if Bischoff never gets the idea to have Hall and Nash “invade” WCW and just brings them in as two new guys? I think there’s a lot of fallout there. Really, the boom starts with the Hogan turn. If that doesn’t happen, maybe WCW doesn’t blow up like they did. If they don’t start beating Vince, he doesn’t try anything new. We probably don’t get Austin, heel Hart, DX, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thee Reverend Axl Future Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 A Hogan turn w/o Nash & Hall as NWO would have made a big splash in the wrestling world that would not carry over to the mainstream/crossover/new viewers, I think. Hogan turning rulebreaker = memorable but business as usual (unless a hot babyface gets made), but Hogan joining the NWO is bigger news, and he adds to/rides the cool heel vibe that was Hall + Nash + NWO. It also gave the group HH's booking autocracy, as opposed to it just being used on himself. "Hogan as top heel the company was built around, squashing guest babyfaces" would actually have been much worse that the "Hogan as top babyface, defeating every heel and faction like it's 1984 and you are still 9 and he still had a convex hairline" that WCW was feeding everyone for the previous couple decades years. - RAF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zendragon Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Going back to the time Travel Matches 2008 Bound For Glory Kurt Angle vs Jeff Jarrett. Pretty good match until the Russo booked fuck finish, Jarrett is a pretty good opponent for Angle as he reigns in some of Kurts excesses (he probably would be a good opponent for Kenny Omega as well for this reason). But Kurt was starting to break down and Jeff was somewhat retired. 96-97 Jarrett vs 2002 - 2004 Angle would be great 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyChamp Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 WCW was making money in 4th gear as far back as 1994 wasn’t it? Obviously that wasn’t going to last forever unlessssssss........the whole business as usual thing mentioned above happens. It would then get interesting IMO. Maybe Benoit, Eddie and company make it to the top sooner than later when Hogan quits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I think they sell less t-shirts without the 3:16 promo, but not much else changes. He didn't really blow up until the fall and feud with Bret. And since Bret handpicked him for that role, I think it still goes roughly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 On 3/22/2021 at 11:53 PM, BloodyChamp said: WCW was making money in 4th gear as far back as 1994 wasn’t it? Obviously that wasn’t going to last forever unlessssssss........the whole business as usual thing mentioned above happens. It would then get interesting IMO. Maybe Benoit, Eddie and company make it to the top sooner than later when Hogan quits. According to Bischoff, 1995 was the first year WCW made any type of profit under Turner ownership. I believe the non-Bischoff consensus has been that it wasn't until 1995 or 1996, so they definitely weren't profitable in 1994. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shartnado Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 3 hours ago, Petey said: According to Bischoff, 1995 was the first year WCW made any type of profit under Turner ownership. I believe the non-Bischoff consensus has been that it wasn't until 1995 or 1996, so they definitely weren't profitable in 1994. Yeah, Hogan vs Flair at BatB'94 apparently did a huge buyrate compared to previous PPV's, but that's not to say that 1994 was a profitable year for them overall. Which is too bad, because the first half of the year was amazing, quality-wise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 I'm pretty sure it was 1995 when they first turned a profit because Bischoff on his podcast told a story about betting one of the Turner execs that they would turn a profit that year. Like a dollar or ten dollar bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) . I wonder if they would have made a profit in the early years if Turner execs didn’t monkey around with the accounting, so WCW got PPV revenue on their books instead of Turner H9me Entertainment. Edited March 24, 2021 by odessasteps 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 39 minutes ago, odessasteps said: . I wonder if they would have made a profit in the early years if Turner execs didn’t monkey around with the accounting, so WCW got PPV revenue on their books instead of Turner H9me Entertainment. And didn't they not get money for producing the highest rated programs on TBS? I'm sure their balance sheet would've looked alot better of they were paid market value. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyChamp Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Well either way they were making money before the (re)jumpstart so my what if could still happen. Also there’s the accounting stuff which has been talked about here before yes. So who knows. Some of those accountants probably still don’t know wtf all that mess was let alone Eric Bischoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister TV Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 5 hours ago, Infinit said: And didn't they not get money for producing the highest rated programs on TBS? I'm sure their balance sheet would've looked alot better of they were paid market value. WCW had good ratings on TBS but they weren’t getting ad revenue that equaled those ratings, ads for Goody’s headache powder & limited time offer 800 number products don’t bring in the cash. Now what wrestling did was boost the overall rating of TBS, which allowed them to have higher base rates for the entire channel. Running house shows in big arenas that only drew 1,000 to 5,000 people is a money pit, that had to be one of the biggest factors they were always in the red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanChessgame Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 I don't feel like looking back through the whole thread to see if this has been covered yet, but what does WCW look like if Bischoff peaks as a commentator and never gets any sort of administrative or booking input? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Mister TV said: WCW had good ratings on TBS but they weren’t getting ad revenue that equaled those ratings, ads for Goody’s headache powder & limited time offer 800 number products don’t bring in the cash. Now what wrestling did was boost the overall rating of TBS, which allowed them to have higher base rates for the entire channel. Running house shows in big arenas that only drew 1,000 to 5,000 people is a money pit, that had to be one of the biggest factors they were always in the red. True...but look at WWF/E's tv contracts over the years with their not the most favorable advertisers. I'm sure if WCW got paid a fair market rate for their TV by Turner and they weren't victims of the shady THE accounting of PPV revenue @odessastepsbrought up, they probably would have been closer to the black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 1 hour ago, HumanChessgame said: I don't feel like looking back through the whole thread to see if this has been covered yet, but what does WCW look like if Bischoff peaks as a commentator and never gets any sort of administrative or booking input? I don't know if we would've had the Monday Night Wars at that level. I'm sure you would've had a better overall booker but I'm not sure if you. Wouldve had as much international flavor or a Cruiserweight division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 What if... AEW forms with The Bucks, Hangman, Kenny and Jericho, but Cody goes back to WWE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyChamp Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Fired up Eric Bischoff is 1 of the best announcers ever. I hate it but it’s true. He was a reason those old Nitros were hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister TV Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 10 hours ago, Infinit said: True...but look at WWF/E's tv contracts over the years with their not the most favorable advertisers. I'm sure if WCW got paid a fair market rate for their TV by Turner and they weren't victims of the shady THE accounting of PPV revenue @odessastepsbrought up, they probably would have been closer to the black. The whole "shady accounting" things seems like an excuse, was it one of the many reasons WCW was always in the red? Sure, but there were numerous other factors that put them in that position that no one ever seems to talk about. WCW had massive operating costs(house shows, talent, staff, and so on), I can't see ppv revenue(which was split with cables companies) and ad revenue being enough to put the company into the black. On ad revenue, remember not only did WCW have "low rent" ad buyers, the overall cost of ad time on cable until say 1996ish was low, both companies were "right place right time" when their ratings peaked at the same time the rates peaked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 30 minutes ago, Mister TV said: The whole "shady accounting" things seems like an excuse, was it one of the many reasons WCW was always in the red? Sure, but there were numerous other factors that put them in that position that no one ever seems to talk about. WCW had massive operating costs(house shows, talent, staff, and so on), I can't see ppv revenue(which was split with cables companies) and ad revenue being enough to put the company into the black. On ad revenue, remember not only did WCW have "low rent" ad buyers, the overall cost of ad time on cable until say 1996ish was low, both companies were "right place right time" when their ratings peaked at the same time the rates peaked. I'm no accountant or anything, but I always assumed Turner viewed WCW as a loss leader in its corporate hierarchy. I'm sure WCW did have huge operating costs and salaries, but propping up THE with WCW PPV revenue and keeping TBS programming costs low did WCW no favors keeping themselves out of the red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 2 hours ago, AxB said: What if... AEW forms with The Bucks, Hangman, Kenny and Jericho, but Cody goes back to WWE? Can we have this one happen now? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 Ok here’s my what if ... What if back in 2009 when Spike TV aired replays of Impact on Saturday mornings, they had ordered new programming and Xplosion has expanded to two hours? What would that show have looked like? Other than Thunder on acid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoae Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 (edited) On 3/25/2021 at 9:16 AM, Mister TV said: The whole "shady accounting" things seems like an excuse, was it one of the many reasons WCW was always in the red? Sure, but there were numerous other factors that put them in that position that no one ever seems to talk about. The talking point that WCW was put out of business by creative accounting reminds me of a consulting client I had about 20 years ago. Client started up an internet foods services business in the days when internet businesses were still fairly novel. Company took off like a rocket and became very profitable very quickly. Company ended up with huge tax bill, so their accounting firm recommended they start spending money to reduce the size of their tax bill. The accountants presumably wanted the owners to reinvest in the company by making infrastructure improvements that would legally make them look less profitable on paper but lead to greater profitability down the road. What the owners did was give themselves raises and start spending money like proverbial drunken monkeys. Cars, homes, lavish home renovations, lavish gifts for employees, expensive tips, etc. Some of it was even nominally business-related - in the way staying in the most expensive room in the most expensive hotel in the city is a justifiable business expense. Fast-forward a couple years and the company still had explosive sales growth, but was cash poor and had a crippling amount of debt to the point the company couldn't afford to pay its shipping bills and was sued several well-known parcel delivery services (hint: a company operating as an internet-only business and selling fresh food kinda needs the companies that handle its deliveries). And... they still kept spending money. One of the owners once had barely enough money to her name to pay her utility bills (they had to stop paying themselves as much and also stupidly ignored advice from experts - including me - and didn't set the company up correctly to limit personal liability) and still wandered over to a public auction and bought a $500,000 house. She just assumed the money would come from somewhere because... why not. She never lived in the house, of course. Just came up with enough money to pay the upfront auction costs then never managed to come up with the rest of the transaction amount. House had to be auctioned off a second time. Was their creative accounting going on in Turner? Quite possibly. Probably. But Eric and co. also spent money like drunken monkeys assuming the cash would always come from somewhere like magic. You can get away with that for awhile when you're on the upswing and have enough clout to ignore your critics. But, no upswing lasts forever, so... My favorite "WCW wastes money" story - and there are a lot to choose from - is WCW comping plane tickets to everyone for Nitro shows. Even the talent who lived within driving distance. And weren't going to be used on the show. Edited March 29, 2021 by Eoae 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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