Cobra Commander Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 My gripe with the announcers is that Cole veers wildly in his calls of matches/angles. He has no gravitas. It'd be like having Todd Pettengill as the head PBP guy. JBL has strengths but the other two announcers try to browbeat him out of nowhere. Lawler hasn't provided much post-heart attack. Seriously. How many failed Indy douchebag PBP guys could provide the same services as Michael Cole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 My gripe with the announcers is that Cole veers wildly in his calls of matches/angles. He has no gravitas. It'd be like having Todd Pettengill as the head PBP guy. JBL has strengths but the other two announcers try to browbeat him out of nowhere. Lawler hasn't provided much post-heart attack. Seriously. How many failed Indy douchebag PBP guys could provide the same services as Michael Cole? This is the biggest problem with Cole, he doesn't seem very authoritative. Compare Cole to Gordon Solie, Jim Ross, Bob Caudle or Lance Russell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Or even compare Cole to Gorilla Monsoon (noting some unfairness since Monsoon wrestled) or compare Cole to Tony Schiavone. Cole is there because keeping the same guy is a safe bet. See: Joe Buck or Non-NBA Ernie Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLaw Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Great interview. Visually, it reminded me of an ESPN Radio-type setup. Which makes me wish WWEN would simulcast Austin's podcasts like the ESPN Radio shows are, and he could air a match or two and do a running commentary over it. These are great ideas. The best thing for Cesaro was Austin and Vince talking about him last night. I think it is a any press is good press situation. The owner of the company is discussing you, and not so terribly. He didn't talk about 94% of the roster, but he talked about Cesaro. I don't think it's that bad. Obviously, Austin needs to get Cesaro on the podcast now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brysynner Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 So where do people watch this Lucha Underground if they don't get the El Ray Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Michael Cole might be David Crockett if Crockett had no joy left in his life. If killing the territories (oh, I'm sorry, the competitors to Vince had millions each and didn't invest in the product).. If the end of the territories did anything definitively bad to the WWE product, it helped choke the supply of babyface PBP guys to the WWE. The Raw crew is 2/3rds guys who got work commentating on Raw during the Monday Night Wars.... 14 years ago. Authority as a PBP guy would come with time. Unless the WWE finds a way to hire some former MMA guy and brainwash him into calling the WWE in a way that Vince wants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Brynsynner, you can find full eps on YouTube without much looking at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallacy! Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Vince looked like he wanted to cry when Austin brought up CM Punk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagan Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 The comparison of Cole to Joe Buck is perfect. Cole does his job perfectly well but he comes off very produced and slick. JR is like Brent Musburger. Screaming and yelling and treating every moment like life or death. I don't get how you guys just don't tune out the announcers, though. I mean, I hate 99% of sports announcers and barely pay attention. At the very least, I don't think the announcers detract from the show much. It's not like heel Cole days or Coachman babbling or WCW having Madden screaming. That made the show unwatchable. I mean, JBL and the gang will bury a shit segment but it's not like JR exactly gave it his all during a Mideon segment or Val Venis talking about whipping out his dick. I think they call the main angles and matches pretty well, within the confines of the way they're required to call the matches. And Striker and Vampiro aren't very good, guys. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Vince could get over anybody he wants to get over. If he could do that the WWF never would have had a down period. There are hundreds of examples where they wanted somebody to get over and it did not happen. Don't get what wrestling being "fake"* has to do with it. If WCW could create acts like Goldberg at will, they would still be in business. *I will never get fans who feel the need to say that. But shit I heard a guy whose body has been pounded to pulp by wrestling say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Guy Named Tracy Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Is it wrong that every time Austin and Vince said the word "pr0duct", in my head I actually heard stuffing instead of potatoes? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJ Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 The issue with Cole is that he is so incredibly overproduced and my perception is that's exactly how Vince likes it. So we can go on and on about how much we dislike Cole's work and how we need a new play by play guy but unless that new guy had some major clout he would probably just take instruction and sound like a Cole clone. You can't compare sports commentating to wrestling commentating. They resemble each other but are completely different. Sports commentating is describing unpredictable live action as it happens. The action largely speaks for itself. Wrestling commentating is essentially narrating a play to the audience. The narration should serve to explain who the characters are and what their motivations are. The narration should help the performers illicit certain reactions at certain times. What made Jim Ross so memorable is that at times his commentary actually aided in getting a talent or a match over. Wrestling commentating should be telling the full story of the match. One of the things that makes NXT so enjoyable is the commentary aids in helping the matches tell stories. That's why there is a feel like the matches actually matter. Matches on Raw tell stories too the commentary team just ignores them. Tyson Kidd is the perfect example. Because he is on Raw and NXT you can see exactly how his act is treated differently by each commentating team. It's the same heel tactics but if you were only watching Raw all you would know about him is his wife is on Total Divas and he's a heel because he sometimes uses his wife as a shield. Which is really just the surface of his work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I'm at the point now where I wish Vince could put on the headset himself. I would take mid 90s Vince McMahon over Michael Cole any day of the week. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Tyson Kidd is the perfect example. Because he is on Raw and NXT you can see exactly how his act is treated differently by each commentating team. It's the same heel tactics but if you were only watching Raw all you would know about him is his wife is on Total Divas and he's a heel because he sometimes uses his wife as a shield. Which is really just the surface of his work. You forgot five crucial points: 1) He's Nattie's husband. 2) He's Nattie's husband. 3) He's Nattie's husband. 4) He's Nattie's husband. 5) Did they mention he's Nattie's husband? #jbl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Thoughts on the interview: - If you were really expecting Austin to crucify Vince and really push him, you were going to be disappointed. With that being said, I think Austin asked a lot of good questions but due to it being Vince's company/network, there was only so far he could go. - Cesaro is charismatic and has character, but Vince outright said that he doesn't get Cesaro's character or understand it. I also do think him being Swiss is a piece of it, since Vince basically admitted it. If they ever let him do the "HEY" stuff, Vince will get it. Vince gets catchphrases. - Funny how Vince doesn't want to have meaningless matches but never gives any non-main eventers much time to talk. I'm certain Triple H talks more in one Raw episode than Kofi has had in his entire run. - I'll never understand why anyone cares about the Hall of Fame. There are limo drivers in it as well as Pete Rose. WWE will induct anyone they can to make some money off of it or to get attention from it. I bet WWE inducts Snookie or K-Fed someday. - Vince seemed to forget his struggles invading Memphis and World Class, but some of that was probably due to the little interview time. - I have no idea where Jake came in as a special attraction. He certainly was never positioned that way. - Vince did have a strange childhood, but his dad had money, connections and power. Vince wouldn't be where he is without his dad being who he was. Maybe he would have been a wrestler if he wasn't a McMahon, but who even knows. Vince had a head start that others would dream of having. - I didn't really get the story about Vince Sr. not giving that announcer the raise. I'd like to hear both sides to that story. As we saw in Memphis with Lance Russel, a strong television announcer is priceless. - Vince can make anyone a star that he pleases. Anyone can be a star by never losing, getting a strong push and constantly getting good programs/storylines. I've yet to see Roman Reigns in any 20+ min singles matches and yet Vince is strapping the rocket to his butt. Meanwhile, Daniel Bryan was given lousy storylines, a heel turn, Kane, was forced to change the "YES" chants into "NO" chants, was pushed as a troll/goat, was mocked by the announcers and somehow was still the most over guy on the roster while having the best matches. You think Roman Reigns and Triple H could have survived all that? I don't. - I don't think Vince really understands why people don't take as many risks these days, even though his company doesn't take that many risks nowadays either. It's likely because he's rich and hasn't had to apply for a job in 40+ years. WWE has no real competition and unless you are a main event guy, if you leave WWE, you're likely not coming back. Where else can you make 6 figures unless you're a big manager, programmer, lawyer, doctor or something similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeball Wizard Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Is it wrong that I wonder if Vince has a literal brass ring on a chain around his neck,and the key to getting a push is being able to steal it from him? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilwaldo Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Seth RollinsVerified account @WWERollins No better way to grab the brass ring then to take out the so-called last guy to do just that. #WWETLC #TablesMatch How's that for ambition? I hope that brass ring comment worked as a motivator and I think it did. \/\/ There was a lot of subtlety and nuance in what Vince said last night with respect to the roster. Vince was right about Jake becoming stale and the roster doing the same thing every week. He wants to see that motivation and drive. Not relying on crowd chants to get over but creating material, both good and bad. The Rock used to carry a notebook with him everywhere. He wrote down ideas and catchphrases as they came to him. Some got used and others never got used but he kept every idea not knowing if it would ever get used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneybrown Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 - I have no idea where Jake came in as a special attraction. He certainly was never positioned that way. He was saying that when Jake came in with the snake, it was a big deal and fans reacted strongly to it. You look at those early MSG shows he was on or the SNME Steamboat incident and the fans freak out when he dumped the snake on people. By the time he turned face, the snake had become commonplace and wasn't a big deal anymore where he could have gotten more mileage out of it if Jake wasn't on as much or the snake wasn't brought out as much. The irony in that statement is that so much of the roster has gotten stale primarily because it's the same guys doing the same things every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 If I'm a WWE wrestler, I'm in Vince's office ASAP pitching my ideas. Grab that brass ring, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Vince did have a strange childhood, but his dad had money, connections and power. Vince wouldn't be where he is without his dad being who he was. Maybe he would have been a wrestler if he wasn't a McMahon, but who even knows. Vince had a head start that others would dream of having. No self awareness, born on third and tells everybody he hit a triple. Zero concept of what privilege is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scraylo187 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 If I'm a WWE wrestler, I'm in Vince's office ASAP pitching my ideas. Grab that brass ring, you know. I love contrasting this to Punk's interview where he's basically like 'I hope you like having your ideas stolen for other guys' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilwaldo Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 If you are in a creative environment you have to expect that. I am sure he was not the first nor will he be the last to have that happen. You may pitch an idea that does not work for you but works for others. It happens in every creative environment. If anything, you use that to your advantage after your career ends to get a job on the booking committee pointing out the good ideas you brought to the table that increased business. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I dont think Austin went as light on McMahon as people say, it just that everything seemed rushed plush McMahon just wrapped up a 3 hour live Raw so, it turned out well in my view because theres so much to ask him. i loved him sneaking a plug for Cabanas podcast and him sneaking in a TNA mention I think he did those things to pop the internet fans. Im willing to bet anyone else wouldnt have dared to ask some of the questions he asked. I hoping after this, Vince takes it as a challenge to get Cesaro over just to prove to himself he can since he was put on the spot about it. Austin repeatedly challenging guys to get themselves over is strange after CM Punk just talked about Vince no being concerned about anyone outside of Cena. I never really bout in to the rumor that Vince has his guys he wants to Push and HHH has his guys he favors but now I do because I get the sense that Vince likes Punk even now and he hates how things went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 If Punk comes back does he get fined? EDIT: I also think one reason why Austin always says how much he regrets leaving from a business sense is that he has ex-wives to support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overly Critical Man Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 If I'm a WWE wrestler, I'm in Vince's office ASAP pitching my ideas. Grab that brass ring, you know. I love contrasting this to Punk's interview where he's basically like 'I hope you like having your ideas stolen for other guys' When you pitch Chris Hero as the third man in The Shield, you deserve to have your idea stolen and altered. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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