SovietShooter Posted May 31 Posted May 31 On 5/31/2026 at 9:46 AM, NoFistsJustFlips said: Am I the only one that would prefer a distinct hard brand split between AEW & ROH? It might just be my ocd and most people dont care. But if they are two separate promotions keep them that way. Idk all these years later Im still just struggling to see the purpose of RoH. Is it just nostalgia because Tony grew up with RoH? Is it developmental? Is it it's own thing? Its messy. Its always been messy. Clean it up. Tony is a billionaire. He loves ROH. He decided to buy the brand to keep it alive. He is using it as a feeder to AEW. It could be debated if that is a tribute or a stain on ROH's legacy, but if TK wasn't keeping the name alive, then ROH would be no different than Chikara or Smokey Mountain right now. I don't think a brand split is a big deal either way, but in a world where there are no forbidden doors between promotions, and a CMLL or NJPW title could pop up on a random AEW show, it doesn't bother me one iota when ROH titles do. However, if ROH (and other companies) titles are going to show up in AEW regularly, maybe get rid of some of the extra titles. If there is a "need" to have a title that can float back and forth and be defended on random Indy shows, the ROH title would be fine for that. Don't need International, National, and Continental titles for that. 3
HarryArchieGus Posted June 1 Posted June 1 ROH is most definitely a developmental project. It's also been very placeholder. It feels like TK doesn't want to burn thru any sort of important matches or put too much focus on the product with so few watching. I suspect the play is still to continue building it slowly with a TV deal being the end goal. I'd much prefer a full brand split too. All that said, the shows have been significantly better since moving to the Jacksonville studio - despite a weak looking presentation (hardcam towards a screen; pandemic style). The matches benefit from having the time they need. There's also a few bright spots like Mance Warner, Blake Christian, Maya World, Purrazo, Moriarty, Oliver/Price and Billington/Priest. The tag Division is a good example of the strengths/weaknesses of current ROH. There's been a lot of really good tags lately, but the belts are held by Guevara/Mortos, who have been absent for months. There's also Athena's title run which has gone well passed it's expiry date. Further, AEW's women's division could benefit from Athena being a regular player while ROH could benefit by moving some up and comers into her current position. Still a lot of issues with ROH, but the move to the studio has been mostly favourable. It feels like they might have found a worthwhile trajectory. ROH is also where you can currently see Eddie Kingston wrestle. 2
NoFistsJustFlips Posted June 1 Posted June 1 Im good with Chikara being gone so people cant easily see the bad match I had there 2
Matt D Posted June 1 Posted June 1 ROH is fine. It’s wrestling for the sake of wrestling. We love that here at DVDVR. It gives us something else to watch. It lets some people get paid and get reps. The Athena run is the best title run this decade, anywhere in the world. 9 1
HarryArchieGus Posted June 1 Posted June 1 (edited) 9 hours ago, Matt D said: ROH is fine. It’s wrestling for the sake of wrestling. We love that here at DVDVR. It gives us something else to watch. It lets some people get paid and get reps. The Athena run is the best title run this decade, anywhere in the world. I can get down with the first part there. Athena’s run being the best or particularly good at this point is certainly questionable. There was a point where it was indeed good. And then it became a needless slog to break a record. I also find her Minions storyline and promos hokey and played out. Curious what makes this ‘the best title run this decade’ for you? Edited June 2 by HarryArchieGus
Matt D Posted June 1 Posted June 1 37 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said: I can get down with the first part there. Athena’s run being the best or particularly good at this point is certainly questionable. There was a point where it was indeed good until it became a needless slog to break a record with a succession of less than credible or believable challengers. I also find her Minions storyline and promos generally awful. Curious what makes this ‘the best title run this decade’ for you? I write a lot about Athena. I think it would make an amazing comp if you included Proving Ground matches too. The biggest issue with the run is going back to the well with Billie the second time. And they can’t go back again. https://segundacaida.blogspot.com/search/label/Athena?m=1 4
JLowe Posted June 1 Posted June 1 5 hours ago, Matt D said: ROH is fine. It’s wrestling for the sake of wrestling. We love that here at DVDVR. It gives us something else to watch. It lets some people get paid and get reps. The Athena run is the best title run this decade, anywhere in the world. I think the women who have put in some time in ROH, both as regulars and occasional indie performers, have benefited significantly and I can’t help but wonder if Athena is doing some training and producing while she’s there. 3
username Posted June 2 Posted June 2 15 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said: ROH is most definitely a developmental project. The thing is... if it is this then hasn't it been kind of a failure? Like who in all the years TK has owned it has gone from a primarily ROH wrestler to an AEW one? The ROH men's title has at no point been held by a ROH wrestler. The biggest success has been Athena and because Tony alone seems driven to have her title reign be longer than Roman's has stuck her down there years longer than she should have been, like remember how hyped people were for her matches with Willow and the first vs Starkz and she could have walked onto AEW tv as a top women's star; they have not cared nearly that much about anything she has done in ROH in the years (plural) since. TBF her in-ring work is still rather good from what I've seen (and I'll take Matt D's word for the rest) but it has blatantly been to decreasing returns. I think the truth is that there has never been a plan for ROH or really a point, but TK is legit a wrestling sicko so it just keeps going on as a sort of zombie promotion with probably less of a following than MLW somehow (100% because one is free to watch and the other isn't, but still) but hey, wrestlers are getting paychecks out of it and there are people who bless them watch a metric ton of wrestling each week and are glad for another hour or two to watch so hey, good for all of them. 2
HarryArchieGus Posted June 2 Posted June 2 (edited) 10 hours ago, username said: The thing is... if it is this then hasn't it been kind of a failure? Like who in all the years TK has owned it has gone from a primarily ROH wrestler to an AEW one? The ROH men's title has at no point been held by a ROH wrestler. The biggest success has been Athena and because Tony alone seems driven to have her title reign be longer than Roman's has stuck her down there years longer than she should have been, like remember how hyped people were for her matches with Willow and the first vs Starkz and she could have walked onto AEW tv as a top women's star; they have not cared nearly that much about anything she has done in ROH in the years (plural) since. TBF her in-ring work is still rather good from what I've seen (and I'll take Matt D's word for the rest) but it has blatantly been to decreasing returns. I think the truth is that there has never been a plan for ROH or really a point, but TK is legit a wrestling sicko so it just keeps going on as a sort of zombie promotion with probably less of a following than MLW somehow (100% because one is free to watch and the other isn't, but still) but hey, wrestlers are getting paychecks out of it and there are people who bless them watch a metric ton of wrestling each week and are glad for another hour or two to watch so hey, good for all of them. I agree with much of what you're saying. Whether it's been a good developmental system is arguable. As for the comment concerning an ROH wrestler becoming an AEW wrestler, that doesn't happen because TK puts most ppl he signs on AEWTV first. Nonetheless, there's some ppl who have benefitted from getting ring and mic time in ROH. Kyle Fletcher, for example, seemed to benefit quite well from his ROH TV Title run. Getting that focus during a time when he was not as featured on AEW was a boost - a good confidence builder. I think it's worked similarly with Bandido. To your comment about no plan, maybe there was no plan to begin with, but the plan has been to do as they're simply/quietly doing. Matt described it perfectly... 21 hours ago, Matt D said: It’s wrestling for the sake of wrestling. We love that here at DVDVR. It gives us something else to watch. It lets some people get paid and get reps. I'm for that. I'd also add that the developmental projects are currently pretty plentiful - Zayda Steel, Billie Starks, Christyiana (sp?), Billington/Priest, Price/Oliver, Stori Denali, Red Velvet, Moriarty, etc. On Saturday it seemed like Moriarty might even be readying for a regular 'call up'. I also agree with some of what you're saying about Athena. Many of us were ready for her to jump to AEWTV regularly with the Mercedes match. That said, and as much as I'm ready to move on from the 'forever' champion, I don't think she's simply spinning her wheels in ROH. I sense as @JLowe was speculating that she has a hand in helping develop talent. As I said, I too wish they'd at least pass along the belt. Edited June 2 by HarryArchieGus 4
Technico Support Posted June 2 Posted June 2 I'm slowly working through the AEW PPV backlog. The +10 button is keeping me sane as I use it quite liberally on anything I just do not feel like watching. I just finished World's End 2023 and man, that PPV was rough. Kingston vs Moxley (CC finals) was the lone bright spot. Incredible match. When I end up talking to myself out loud by accident ("fuck, dude, Kingston is so great"), you know it's a good one. 1
Jenalysis Posted June 2 Posted June 2 (edited) 10 hours ago, username said: The thing is... if it is this then hasn't it been kind of a failure? Like who in all the years TK has owned it has gone from a primarily ROH wrestler to an AEW one? The ROH men's title has at no point been held by a ROH wrestler. The biggest success has been Athena and because Tony alone seems driven to have her title reign be longer than Roman's has stuck her down there years longer than she should have been, like remember how hyped people were for her matches with Willow and the first vs Starkz and she could have walked onto AEW tv as a top women's star; they have not cared nearly that much about anything she has done in ROH in the years (plural) since. TBF her in-ring work is still rather good from what I've seen (and I'll take Matt D's word for the rest) but it has blatantly been to decreasing returns. I think the truth is that there has never been a plan for ROH or really a point, but TK is legit a wrestling sicko so it just keeps going on as a sort of zombie promotion with probably less of a following than MLW somehow (100% because one is free to watch and the other isn't, but still) but hey, wrestlers are getting paychecks out of it and there are people who bless them watch a metric ton of wrestling each week and are glad for another hour or two to watch so hey, good for all of them. I'd argue it's less a developmental, and more the Championship where folks get put out "on loan" compared to AEW's Premier League, with the exception of the ROH title, which is kinda an AEW secondary/traveling belt. It's a place for folks who wouldn't get regular TV title in AEW to get reps at a high level, and also when you decide to call someone up, they're ready. The issue is ROH weekly TV is not very interesting with all the squashes and long title reigns. It's good in-ring wrestling, but the programs are bad- even if Moriarty in particular is doing a great job makes it seem less so. The PPVs usually deliver, and they're part of myAEW so at least there's that. BTW I would argue Bandido , given his history , would count as an ROH wrestler who is now a mainstay in AEW. So there's one. I'm pretty sure Garcia and Yuta had a lot of ROH reps as well. Shafir as well. ROH when it was brought felt like it originally served as secondary titles in AEW, and it did a great job of that. the ROH tag belts FTR had felt like the US Tag titles, and the ROH belt has consistently been a mid-tier belt in AEW that has been treated well, and still serves that role. It's why the National belt was such a headscratcher to me, as Bandido was doing a great job filling that touring champion role, with a more prestigious belt. I do think AEW should solve it's championship issues by merging the ROH and National belts into the ROH belt, and Moriarty should challenge Takeshita to make the International pure championship defended under Pure rules as AEW titles. The ROH belt would be the traveling world title which is also defended on ROH PPVs, the International championship becomes the Pure title workrate championship, and the ROH TV belt becomes the main developmental title that headlines ROH's weekly show. Each midcard belt has its own identity and ruleset, and you still have plenty of them to fill up TV/PPV. Edited June 2 by Jenalysis 5
NoFistsJustFlips Posted June 2 Posted June 2 I disagree really strongly with all of that. Its messy. Its confusing to viewers. The NFL doesn't let UFL or XFL teams play games and defend thier titles during the NFL season on NFL broadcasts. I get football and wrestling aren't a 1:1 comp but trying to demonstrate a different way to look at it. If AEW is your premium A level brand, you're taking time and resources away from it to prop up this D level brand the majority of your audience doesnt even follow. I wont go too much further here. Because its okay to have different views on it. But AEW would be a stronger more focused brand if ROH wasnt a thing. People were getting reps on Dark & Elevation. You can still have the same format if what you're doing. Just stop diluting your A brand woth D brand stuff.
Technico Support Posted June 2 Posted June 2 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jenalysis said: I do think AEW should solve it's championship issues by merging the ROH and National belts into the ROH belt, and Moriarty should challenge Takeshita to make the International pure championship defended under Pure rules as AEW titles. The ROH belt would be the traveling world title which is also defended on ROH PPVs, the International championship becomes the Pure title workrate championship, and the ROH TV belt becomes the main developmental title that headlines ROH's weekly show. Each midcard belt has its own identity and ruleset, and you still have plenty of them to fill up TV/PPV. I love the idea of cutting down the belts and giving them their own identities and rules. Four men's belts with nothing defined except, "well this one gets 20 minute time limits and no interference" is such a mess. Edited June 2 by Technico Support 1
SovietShooter Posted June 2 Author Posted June 2 4 hours ago, Jenalysis said: I'd argue it's less a developmental, and more the Championship where folks get put out "on loan" compared to AEW's Premier League, with the exception of the ROH title, which is kinda an AEW secondary/traveling belt. It's a place for folks who wouldn't get regular TV title in AEW to get reps at a high level, and also when you decide to call someone up, they're ready. Yeah, this is my take on it too. It isn't "developmental" like NXT where it is a promotion attached to an in-house training center. I like the futbol analogy! It's like how when JCP bought the Kansas City territory and sent a bunch of mid-card guys like Sam Houston over there to get reps in front of a different audience. 4 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said: I disagree really strongly with all of that. Its messy. Its confusing to viewers. The NFL doesn't let UFL or XFL teams play games and defend thier titles during the NFL season on NFL broadcasts. Something I've discovered over the years watching futbol - Americans don't understand a league pyramid system, or having multiple competitions at once. Most of the world understands this kinda stuff, but since we do it different in the US... 3
NoFistsJustFlips Posted June 2 Posted June 2 I will admit ignorance to futbol and league pyramid systems. But beyond that for me specifically its more an organizational and formatting annoyance. Its a messy presentation. The strongest version of AEW would be an AEW that doesnt also lug around the corpse of what was good a good promotion 20 years ago and put resources into trying to make that good too. I dont feel like Im translating the thoughts in my head to the page very well. But like even if none of what ai wrote above make sense, let's try this. Let's say AEW has 10 roster spots for tag teams. Instead of putting the best 10 teams you have in AEW you have to worry about putting a few good ones down in ROH. Then those roster spots that are open in AEW get filled with less thans. People that would never make the AEW roster if we're just taking the top 10 teams. Any of this landing? Or am I in old man complains about rope colors territory again lol
Technico Support Posted June 2 Posted June 2 Public service announcement: AEW moved its August 12 Baltimore (county) show to the 19th.
Zimbra Posted June 2 Posted June 2 3 hours ago, Technico Support said: I love the idea of cutting down the belts and giving them their own identities and rules. Four men's belts with nothing defined except, "well this one gets 20 minute time limits and no interference" is such a mess. It really, irrationally bothered me that KOR could call for a no time limit Continental championship match. The whole point of the belt is it has different rules! And they finished the match in under 20 so it didn't matter anyway! 5 1
J.T. Posted June 2 Posted June 2 (edited) The card so far for the show in RVA tomorrow night that I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ATTEND BECAUSE I AM WORKING MIDS FOR THE NEXT WEEK AND A HALF FUCK MY LIFE~! MJF vs. RUSH - AEW World Heavyweight Title. Kevin Knight vs. "Speedball" Mike Bailey - AEW TNT Championship Will Osprey vs. Mark Davis - Owen Hart qualifier Alex Windsor vs. TBD - Owen Hart qualifier Hazuki vs. Persephone will be on the Collision card in Youngstown, Ohio..... dammit.... Edited June 2 by J.T. 2 3
SovietShooter Posted June 2 Author Posted June 2 1 hour ago, NoFistsJustFlips said: I dont feel like Im translating the thoughts in my head to the page very well. But like even if none of what ai wrote above make sense, let's try this. Let's say AEW has 10 roster spots for tag teams. Instead of putting the best 10 teams you have in AEW you have to worry about putting a few good ones down in ROH. Then those roster spots that are open in AEW get filled with less thans. Yeah, but that is not what is happening, for the most part. Look at it this way: AEW Dark was replaced by ROH. The kinda people that were working Dark, now work ROH. Except now there are a bunch of belts that weren't around in the Dark era. And, they occasionally have a "Premium Live Event" where they toss in a couple matches with main roster guys geared towards the workarate sickos, so people might subscribe to Honor Club. To me, ROH is kinda like WCW Saturday Night when Jimmy Hart was booking it - a bunch of power plant guys, luchadors, and Hacksaw Duggan defending the tv title against Dave Taylor. And you would occasionally get a match like Alex Wright vs Chris Benoit. 8
The Natural Posted June 3 Posted June 3 Lots of love to Rebel. Fuck ALS, MND as it's known where I'm from. 5
The Natural Posted June 3 Posted June 3 At the halfway point of 2026, my top five AEW matches of the year: 5. Adam Copeland/Christian Cage vs. Dax Harwood/Cash Wheeler. AEW Double or Nothing, 24th May 2026. 4. Darby Allin vs. Konosuke Takeshita. AEW Dynamite. 13th May 2026. 3. Swerve Strickland vs. Kenny Omega. AEW Dynamite, 18th February 2026. *****. 2. Konosuke Takeshita vs. Kazuchika Okada. AEW Double or Nothing, 24th May 2026. *****. 1. Dax Harwood/Cash Wheeler vs. Matt Jackson/Nick Jackson. AEW Revolution, 15th March 2026. *****. 2
Gorman Posted June 3 Posted June 3 13 hours ago, J.T. said: Hazuki vs. Persephone will be on the Collision card in Youngstown, Ohio. If we are all healthy on Saturday, the Gormans will be there. 2
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