WrestleMania 3: Hogan/Andre or Savage/Steamboat

[tbarrie]

On 4/13/2026 at 11:31 AM, SovietShooter said:

Respectfully, I cannot put it ahead of Steamboat/Savage.

You know, the older I get, the more I start to think Hogan/Andre may have been the best match that night. Not that Steamboat/Savage wasn't awesome, of course.

Bret/Owen from WM X is still my number one, though.

[Technico Support]

Savage/Steamboat loses points for me because of the finish.  You have this awesome, show-stealing, state of the art match, and then washed-up ass George "The Animal" Steele has to help the babyface win?  Yes, I know that was the culmination of Steele's story, but it was unnecessary.  Steele was a lower-carder who played a part in the build; he was the B story to occupy time while Steamboat healed from the injury angle.  There was no need to pay off the B story on the big show, and at Steamboat's expense.  If they really wanted to tie it all up, just have Steele there offering moral support, but not getting involved physically.  Have him take the bell from Savage, and that's it, at least.  Putting the title change on Steele's back lessened Steamboat's win.  Imagine Hogan beating Andre the same night because Lanny Poffo interfered to get back at Andre for busting him open in that battle royal.  It's like that.  Pick any great, definitive Mania match and then imagine a lower midcarder interfering to help the babyface win.  It sucks every time.  

Edited April 15 by Technico Support

[Elsalvajeloco]

4 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Savage/Steamboat loses points for me because of the finish.  You have this awesome, show-stealing, state of the art match, and then washed-up ass George "The Animal" Steele has to help the babyface win?  Yes, I know that was the culmination of Steele's story, but it was unnecessary.  Steele was a lower-carder who played a part in the build; he was the B story to occupy time while Steamboat healed from the injury angle.  There was no need to pay off the B story on the big show, and at Steamboat's expense.  If they really wanted to tie it all up, just have Steele there offering moral support, but not getting involved physically.  Have him take the bell from Savage, and that's it, at least.  Putting the title change on Steele's back lessened Steamboat's win.  Imagine Hogan beating Andre the same night because Lanny Poffo interfered to get back at Andre for busting him open in that battle royal.  It's like that.  Pick any great, definitive Mania match and then imagine a lower midcarder interfering to help the babyface win.  It sucks every time.  

Eh, I would say it's different in that 40 years ago, you could get away with that and not diminish anything especially if the heel was so effective in the feud. Plus, they had been telegraphing that some type of poetic justice/karma would happen to Macho Man at some point. You just didn't know when. Add in the fact, Macho Man was super protected (and the finish itself was designed to protect Macho more than push Steamboat) and also outgrown the IC title. The Poffo (Lanny to be specific since we got two members of POFFOMANIA here) thing is also different because Lanny was just some guy who beat up in a battle royale so Andre could prove a point. If it wasn't him, it would have been one of the Killer Bees or Corporal Kirchner or some guy you rarely saw and only appear randomly every now and again on Prime Time Wrestling. They had made Steele and Elizabeth being treated poorly (doesn't age well and nonsensical in hindsight but whatever) by Savage the crux of that feud. If anything, the injury angle was bit of a shoehorn. I am not sure all that was necessary when Randy was already excellent in that role. So Randy has two concurrent major feuds going on at the same time and was being portrayed as this comic book character villain/antagonist. Andre wasn't feuding with Lanny. Since Randy was on the path he was heading, they came up with that finish to wrap up both things at once, move Randy past the IC title, and have this major feelgood moment. If you look back at Mania III, outside of Piper and the main event obviously, that's the only match where the face wins and it's satisfying. I think people would feel some type of way if Ricky won and the reaction was mild. However, since that's a rare babyface win on a card where you saw heels win up and down the card or the babyface get messed up on a finish or the heels find a way to maintain their heat (minus Slick getting stripped of his clothes) and the roof blew off the place when the three count came, it's still remember fondly to this day. For 1987 at that moment in time, that was the right finish. Through the 2026 lens, it won't seem that way but it was.

[twiztor]

3 hours ago, tbarrie said:

You know, the older I get, the more I start to think Hogan/Andre may have been the best match that night. Not that Steamboat/Savage wasn't awesome, of course.

Hogan/Andre is THE epitome of Vince McMahon's WWF. that match wasn't about workrate, or MOVEZ, or "THIS.IS.AWE.SOME!" it was about story and spectacle. And it delivered in both aspects to the max. 

Savage is my absolute favorite wrestler of all time. no qualifiers, no exceptions, no question. #1 easy. I love that match with Steamboat. But Hogan/Andre IS Mania 3.

[supremebve]

14 minutes ago, twiztor said:

Savage is my absolute favorite wrestler of all time. no qualifiers, no exceptions, no question. #1 easy. I love that match with Steamboat. But Hogan/Andre IS Mania 3.

I was almost on board until that last sentence.  Wrestlemania 3 is and always will be about Savage and Steamboat for me.  I feel people who put Hogan/Andre over Savage/Steamboat is equivalent to people who like Nas' album "It was Written," over "Illmatic."  Illmatic is the greatest hip-hop album ever because it only tries to appeal to people who love the art form. Every word, every sample, every drum sound, everything is curated to make the perfect hip-hop album.  It was Written tries to appeal to everybody.  It's a great album, but it's not Illmatic.  It can't be Illmatic, because it's too busy trying to appeal to people who don't actually like what you're making.  If you love wrestling, Savage/Steamboat is a wrestling match for wrestling fans.  Hogan/Andre is a spectacle trying to appeal to people who don't even care about wrestling.  My appreciation for the art form neither needs nor wants acceptance from people outside of the audience.  My appreciation for wrestling is and always will be based on two masters like Savage and Steamboat to get in the ring and give me the best that they got.  If no one outside of hardcore wrestling fans likes it, who the fuck cares?  Their opinions do not matter at all to me.  

[twiztor]

Spinning off from the April AEW thread, which match from WrestleMania 3 do you hold in higher regard?

Use whatever criteria you value. The technical masterpiece of Savage vs. Steamboat, or the grandiosity of Hogan vs. Andre. 

And if you want to pick something other than the two in the title, feel free, but i'm gonna need to hear a VERY convincing argument.

Also, can we not create polls anymore?

[twiztor]

4 minutes ago, supremebve said:

I was almost on board until that last sentence.  Wrestlemania 3 is and always will be about Savage and Steamboat for me.  I feel people who put Hogan/Andre over Savage/Steamboat is equivalent to people who like Nas' album "It was Written," over "Illmatic."  Illmatic is the greatest hip-hop album ever because it only tries to appeal to people who love the art form. Every word, every sample, every drum sound, everything is curated to make the perfect hip-hop album.  It was Written tries to appeal to everybody.  It's a great album, but it's not Illmatic.  It can't be Illmatic, because it's too busy trying to appeal to people who don't actually like what you're making.  If you love wrestling, Savage/Steamboat is a wrestling match for wrestling fans.  Hogan/Andre is a spectacle trying to appeal to people who don't even care about wrestling.  My appreciation for the art form neither needs nor wants acceptance from people outside of the audience.  My appreciation for wrestling is and always will be based on two masters like Savage and Steamboat to get in the ring and give me the best that they got.  If no one outside of hardcore wrestling fans likes it, who the fuck cares?  Their opinions do not matter at all to me.  

i agree with all of this other than the conclusion that you are drawing.  Regardless, i am spinning the WrestleMania 3 discussion into a broader topic in the main folder. 

Also, Illmatic > It Was Written, all day every day.

[tbarrie]

Is that image something official from WWF? I find it hard to believe they'd tuck Hogan/Andre in next to Jake/Honkytonk like that rather than having it front and centre, and probably larger than the other match graphics.

[SirSmUgly]

There are different ways to drop bars effectively just like there are different ways to wrestle a big match effectively. 

[twiztor]

16 minutes ago, tbarrie said:

Is that image something official from WWF? I find it hard to believe they'd tuck Hogan/Andre in next to Jake/Honkytonk like that rather than having it front and centre, and probably larger than the other match graphics.

probably not. i found it on Google as part of a YouTube video. almost every poster or dvd cover just focuses on Hogan/Andre, and i wanted something less one-sided. i also don't recall WWF/E ever using a green color scheme like that.

and some of those match-up pics are atrocious. Look at how terrible Hillbilly Jim's partners are photoshopped in with him. It's like they didn't even try!

holy shit, it gets worse the longer i look at it. Why is Volkoff so pale? What's up with Muraco's stomach? 

Edited April 15 by twiztor

[Bustronaut]

If it's not official, it's really odd, because there appears to be one for nearly every Wrestlemania.

[SirSmUgly]

I'm underwhelmed by this whole card. I'd take Savage/Steamboat, but I'm not sure I'd place it in the top ten of matches either guy has had. 

Broken-down Andre versus Hogan (w/his fucking act that I can't stand) is low on the list of big-match spectacles at WrestleMania. Savage had the best big-match spectacle IMO (vs. Warrior in the retirement match). That match shouldn't work, but it's basically Warrior doing his whole deal with the twist of asking the gods why they've forsaken him and then Savage's increasing desperation and brutality doing zero to help him against a face-painted maniac, followed by the Sherri and Elizabeth drama to close that whole loop. The post-match stuff is the best soap opera they've ever done. 

[SirSmUgly]

Actually, here are my favorite big match WM spectacles that I'd put on the S-tier:

• Savage/Warrior at WM 7
• Bret/Owen at WM 10 (this match has the benefit of not only being compelling family drama that contributes to a good angle and comes back perfectly at the end of the night, but also being quite possibly the best WM match of all time from an artistry standpoint)
• Hogan/Rock at WM 18

That's about it. There are other good big matches built on spectacle, but these are the only three I'd rate at the highest level. 

[supremebve]

22 minutes ago, SirSmUgly said:

There are different ways to drop bars effectively just like there are different ways to wrestle a big match effectively. 

Not disputing that.  It's just that there is a way to try to perfect an art form for the people who love that art form.  That is what I want and mostly why I don't watch as much wrestling as I used to watch.  There is a whole different super capitalist perfection where we focus on getting as many eyes on the art form as possible, despite what the people who love this art form think.  I'm not really interested in that at all.  Savage/Steamboat is the former, Hogan/Andre is the latter.  Hogan/Andre is awesome, but when I watch wrestling, I'm never hoping to see that match.  I'm always hoping to see the next Savage/Steamboat.  

[Dolfan in NYC]

Savage/Steamboat is the "better wrestling" match by a thousand country miles.

Andre/Hogan is the "more important" match by the same measure.  

 

Randy & Ricky had incredible chemistry and it showed in a fluid, technical, psychology-laden affair. It's 40 years later, and you can pick at things that were off (the finish being shaky), but you still see how it's incredible. Every wrestling fan knew it happened.

Hogan completed his ascent to hyper-superstardom here.  He conquered the unconquerable, he slammed the unslammable, he beat the unbeatable.  He did something that no one in 20 years had done... he destroyed a legend.  It's arguably the most important match of the entire decade, as people across the country poured in and wrestling was truly back as mainstream culture.  EVERY ONE knew it happened.  

 

That's the difference.   It's truly 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.  

I'm deep enough in the pool to know Savage & Steamboat was the moment I locked in forever, and is thus my favorite.  But I know enough about the business in general to know, Hogan & Andre was the moment everyone else locked in.  And that's important too. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

18 minutes ago, supremebve said:

here is a whole different super capitalist perfection where we focus on getting as many eyes on the art form as possible, despite what the people who love this art form think.  

Here is where it's tough to draw a line in the sand: It's something that was largely created by carnival people. It's just that several decades later, you can have a Steamboat vs. Savage or Flair vs. Windham or anything we consider workrate related. It's extremely difficult to compare to music in that wrestling in the Frank Lucas "blue magic" of capitalist endeavors when it comes to sports or sports adjacent things. It was purely designed for spectacle. The "art" (as in just artistic aesthetics) side of it besides just how you work marks into believing it was real came much later. The music industry can survive on critically acclaimed albums that don't sell jack as long you had albums like Hotel California or Thriller that sold a bajillion copies.

[Technico Support]

3 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

and the finish itself was designed to protect Macho more than push Steamboat

This is the relevant part I hadn't considered.  It just blows dog dick to see what was the best match on every Mania until that point marred by some past his prime gimmick handing the win to the otherwise deserving babyface.  Like I said, there were ways for Steele to get involved, tying up that storyline, without directly causing the finish and negating all that came before, but it's Vince, and he's never understood that a guy can lose and still stay strong. 

Speaking of, did Savage do any TV angles between Mania 3 and his face turn?  Looking at arena reports, he spent post Mania (after Steamboat lost the IC title) beating Steamboat and a few other babyfaces, the for the rest of the year was programmed against heels (HTM, Reed, OMG, Herc, Race) BUT also did title jobs vs Hogan.  Weird.  The only reference to a TV angle I can see is Savage taking offense to HTM claiming to be the greatest IC champ of all time, and then he's on the face side at Survivor Series.

1 hour ago, twiztor said:

 

holy shit, it gets worse the longer i look at it. Why is Volkoff so pale? What's up with Muraco's stomach? 

Why is the pic of Harley Race over a year old?

Edited April 15 by Technico Support

[supremebve]

2 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

The music industry can survive on critically acclaimed albums that don't sell jack as long you had albums like Hotel California or Thriller that sold a bajillion copies.

This is almost exactly true for wrestling.  I'm not saying we shouldn't have Hogan/Andre; I'm saying I am not showing up to see Hogan/Andre.  I am the audience that is always underserved, because I like minutiae. I generally do not care about what the majority of people like in music or wrestling.  I don't really need the shared experience to enjoy anything.  I don't think I've ever used the radio in my car.  I literally only listen to music I've chosen for myself.  Nothing annoys me more than listening to a perfectly good album and then getting to the song that was clearly made to try to get on the radio. I'm not the masses.  In my world, I want people to create the art that means the most to them, and we, as an audience, decide whether or not we like it.  I never want to feel like anyone is creating art, hoping I like it. 

[Technico Support]

5 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Nothing annoys me more than listening to a perfectly good album and then getting to the song that was clearly made to try to get on the radio

You're showing your age...now they make songs with the intent of getting play in commercials and TV shows.  See: everything Imagine Dragons has ever made.

[Elsalvajeloco]

26 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

This is the relevant part I hadn't considered.  It just blows dog dick to see what was the best match on every Mania until that point marred by some past his prime gimmick handing the win to the otherwise deserving babyface.  Like I said, there were ways for Steele to get involved, tying up that storyline, without directly causing the finish and negating all that came before, but it's Vince, and he's never understood that a guy can lose and still stay strong. 

I mean to be fair, on the same card, JYD and Harley (both much, much younger then would think given their physical condition) were out there having a terrible match on the same card. The very definition of past their prime. George was just out there as a background piece. I mean it's not like he scored a visual pinfall on Macho. He was just there to wrap up a storyline. Steamboat was going to be fine. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

Why is the pic of Harley Race over a year old?

Why is the pic of Savage from five years later?

[Cobra Commander]

I think as the years go by, more and more people gain some appreciation that Andre the Giant was able to get out of bed in 1987, much less work matches needing back surgery. There's little things that he would do to stay upright in the years after that that people may have missed noting how washed up he was by then.

And yes, he got the back surgery in 87 but a bunch of people think he got it in 86

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 hour ago, supremebve said:

I never want to feel like anyone is creating art, hoping I like it. 

Given how Savage put his matches together (and even specifically this one), he was definitely hoping you liked it. The level of choreography that went into this was probably above and beyond most matches today.

As far as being underserved, based on how this match was received, are you "underserved" or what you're looking to be served a rarity or specialty item? It's one thing to be served rice and water all day, everyday. It's another be served filet mignon and the finest wine and then the next day be given rice and water when the routine starts all over again. That's not really being underserved. You can sustain life on what you're usually given, but once you have a different experience, the whole perspective changes.

IMO the perfect storm of storyline and performers along with the scale of WrestleMania is something that put it over the top that make people feel a certain way. If they did that the Agricultural Hall in Allentown, I don't think it would mean the same. Plus, you still had Crockett and what was left of Memphis and other territories at the time. I don't think there was a shortage of great wrestling as much something Savage and Steamboat and the majestic nature could not be replicated on those scales. Putting it in present tense, there is no shortage of it now as much as 90% or 95% of what is put on the same stage (WWE) doesn't even come close. However, at the same time, why would someone try to replicate it? The variables no longer exist and at best, you will only be held as a replica and not the authentic, real thing.

 

 

[Dolfan in NYC]

Here's a fun bit of theory-crafting...  

What if Bruno and Vince had been on speaking terms in 1987?  Does he get slotted into the Andre spot? Would it have gone the same way? 

[Cobra Commander]

1 minute ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

What if Bruno and Vince had been on speaking terms in 1987? 

they were, Bruno doesn't leave until early 88. Bruno's last match was a tag match with Hogan in Baltimore in late 87