SirSmUgly Posted April 5 Posted April 5 On 4/3/2026 at 7:44 PM, username said: So honest question: wouldn't most people say the same of Rey Mysterio? Yeah he had great work afterwards but he was never working at that "I can barely believe what I'm watching" level again (knees are useful to have folks). People could certainly make this argument. I would very much disagree with that. Mysterio wasn't good on the mic until he got to the Dub. He was an insane athlete in the early '90s, but he was far from the complete talent that he would become.
Teflon Turtle Posted April 5 Posted April 5 (edited) 6 hours ago, SovietShooter said: so someone tell me how to feel about Callum Newman as IWGP Champ.... Full disclosure, I haven't watched the match yet. However, the closest description I can arrive at in terms of how you should feel is this: the sensation is probably something like being in the passenger seat of a car, and the driver suddenly hits a patch of ice and starts to skid. They jam on the brakes, spin the wheel hard, and then you shout "YOU'RE OVERCORRECTING!" Which kinda seems like what this is, to me. Does New Japan have to elevate young talent in a hurry now that they no longer have a choice? Yup. Though if I'm Yuya Uemura, Yota Tsuji, or Ryohei Oiwa, I'm asking who I pissed off at this point. Shota Umino...well, I think it's clear why he didn't get there first, but he may be turning a corner. Again. Callum just leapfrogged a whole lot of dojo guys who have been busting ass waiting for an opportunity. With Yota, he at least got a chance...I mean, all wrestlers can't be Okada. Not every title holder can or should have a two-year reign where they look invincible. But putting him in there for his first defense with a limited Jake Lee, having him wrestle under a mask for FantasticaMania (even if it was fun), then drop the title after a V1 reign is setting him up to fail. Now, he's the IWGP Global Champ ready to fight Gabe Kidd. In the same exact spot doing the same exact thing he was doing for the previous two years. But to get back to Callum: he's a very young wrestler who has been improving, and suddenly has been having good matches with the right dance partners. Uemura foremost amongst them, but that shouldn't be news because Yuya has been having the best match of the card with anybody he steps in there with. Newman probably should've been fighting for the Global title, but that would've telegraphed the result. I kinda also feel like NJPW fastracked this to give Newman's story with Ospreay extra stakes, but that story doesn't really need the belt. My understanding is they've also now set up a once-again heel United Empire, led by Callum, to help out Ospreay (who I think is supposed to be a face, yeah?) in AEW against Moxley (I've lost track) and the Death Riders (...heels?). So the grand first act of your shocking new young champion is to play second fiddle to somebody else, somewhere else, with everything muddled and mismatching across the two promotions...even though it likely just leads to Callum turning on Ospreay as was teased in January in New Japan. Additionally, I don't know how I feel about bouncing major story beats back and forth between promotions like a tennis ball, which there's a good chance happens here. Still sliding across opposing lanes of traffic. in sum: you and the New Japan fanbase should feel like confused, mildly panicked passengers who are powerless to do anything besides hope and pray the car stays on the road. Hopefully I too am just overreacting. Edited April 5 by Teflon Turtle More driving metaphors, wheeee!
The Natural Posted April 5 Posted April 5 Did you know Chris Jericho once got fined for coming out with the Womens championship instead of his Intercontinental Championship. Jericho had left the IC title in his hotel Room so borrowed the Womens title thinking nobody would notice it was not his IC title. --- D'oh! 1
The Natural Posted April 5 Posted April 5 (edited) WWF held WrestleMania 2000, which was unique as it had only one singles match with the rest of the card being multi-person. --- WWF was red hot in 2000 but WrestleMania 16/WrestleMania 2000 sucked. Only thing from the show worth watching is Edge and Christian vs. Hardy Boyz vs. Dudley Boyz in the triangle ladder match. There's a saying that records are meant to be broken. This will always be the WrestleMania to have only one singles match on. Edited April 5 by The Natural
Tromatagon Posted April 5 Posted April 5 4 hours ago, The Natural said: WWF held WrestleMania 2000, which was unique as it had only one singles match with the rest of the card being multi-person. --- WWF was red hot in 2000 but WrestleMania 16/WrestleMania 2000 sucked. Only thing from the show worth watching is Edge and Christian vs. Hardy Boyz vs. Dudley Boyz in the triangle ladder match. There's a saying that records are meant to be broken. This will always be the WrestleMania to have only one singles match on. Dude, you're telling me. I was there live with amazing floor seats for one good match. At the time it was the best seats I ever had for any event. Never went to a Mania again as a result, so of course the next SoCal one was amazing... And only Grand Master Sexay slapped my hand. Fuck. 3
The Natural Posted April 5 Posted April 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tromatagon said: Dude, you're telling me. I was there live with amazing floor seats for one good match. At the time it was the best seats I ever had for any event. Never went to a Mania again as a result, so of course the next SoCal one was amazing... And only Grand Master Sexay slapped my hand. Fuck. Oof. Sorry you had to be there for it. On a brighter note, good seeing you again! Edited April 5 by The Natural 1
The Natural Posted April 5 Posted April 5 (edited) 17 hours ago, SovietShooter said: Not seeing any discussion of this over in the Puro area, so someone tell me how to feel about Callum Newman as IWGP Champ.... Yeah, I'm only person in the Sakura Genesis thread. Haven't watched the match yet. Very surprised by the result as Yota Tsuji only won the IWGP World Heavyweight Championship, man, I fucking hate that thing at Wrestle Kingdom 20 and brought back the IWGP Heavyweight Championship V4, thank God. Reminds me of the shock but to a lesser extent when Kazuchika Okada beat Hiroshi Tanahashi for the IWGP Heavyweight Championship at the New Beginning 2012. Newman is the youngest IWGP Heavyweight Champion ever now, I thought that was a record Shinsuke Nakamura would always hold. Personally I thought Yota Tsuji should have had a much longer reign and drop it to Zack Sabre Jr or Yuya Uemura, probably Uemura. Edited April 5 by The Natural 1 1
Sublime Posted April 5 Posted April 5 It seems like since Ospreay is doing shows of NJPW again and is building to a match with Newman they want to make that story bigger by adding the title which I don’t think they needed to do. There’s already the story of Newman being the new leader after Ospreay left and that Ospreay helped train Newma it doesn’t really need to belt too. Tsuji is right that the partnership with AEW isn’t helping New Japan 4
Teflon Turtle Posted April 5 Posted April 5 1 hour ago, The Natural said: Newman is the youngest IWGP Heavyweight Champion ever now, I thought that was a record Shinsuke Nakamura would always hold. Thanks for the reminder on this, for me and everyone. I feel like this fits quite well with my "overcorrection" comment. Even though Callum is getting a lot better, I don't think he was the right person to break this record. 1 1
The Natural Posted April 5 Posted April 5 5 minutes ago, Teflon Turtle said: Thanks for the reminder on this, for me and everyone. I feel like this fits quite well with my "overcorrection" comment. Even though Callum is getting a lot better, I don't think he was the right person to break this record. You're welcome and I agree with you. Should have stayed with Shinsuke Nakamura. That's a record I didn't think would ever be broken, Swagsuke as the youngest IWGP Heavyweight Champion ever.
The Natural Posted April 5 Posted April 5 1 hour ago, Sublime said: It seems like since Ospreay is doing shows of NJPW again and is building to a match with Newman they want to make that story bigger by adding the title which I don’t think they needed to do. There’s already the story of Newman being the new leader after Ospreay left and that Ospreay helped train Newma it doesn’t really need to belt too. Tsuji is right that the partnership with AEW isn’t helping New Japan I don't think it needed the belt either. Yota Tsuji is spot on that the AEW partnership isn't helping NJPW. NJPW lost so many wrestlers to AEW: Kazuchika Okada, Kenny Omega, Kota Ibushi, The Young Bucks, Katsuyori Shibata, Will Ospreay, Jon Moxley, Juice Robinson, Gabe Kidd and David Finlay off the top of my head.
sabremike Posted April 5 Posted April 5 1 hour ago, The Natural said: I don't think it needed the belt either. Yota Tsuji is spot on that the AEW partnership isn't helping NJPW. NJPW lost so many wrestlers to AEW: Kazuchika Okada, Kenny Omega, Kota Ibushi, The Young Bucks, Katsuyori Shibata, Will Ospreay, Jon Moxley, Juice Robinson, Gabe Kidd and David Finlay off the top of my head. The flaw in his argument is that if you Thanos snapped AEW out of existence almost all of those guys would be in WWE/NXT (Shibata being the exception as he's on their shit list for the double cross he pulled at the Dome changing the exhibition to an actual match).
Eivion Posted April 5 Posted April 5 9 minutes ago, sabremike said: The flaw in his argument is that if you Thanos snapped AEW out of existence almost all of those guys would be in WWE/NXT (Shibata being the exception as he's on their shit list for the double cross he pulled at the Dome changing the exhibition to an actual match). I'm not entirely sure what your point is seeing that neither never said anything about wanting AEW to not exist. Its about the partnership being a little too one-sided. 1 hour ago, The Natural said: I don't think it needed the belt either. Yota Tsuji is spot on that the AEW partnership isn't helping NJPW. NJPW lost so many wrestlers to AEW: Kazuchika Okada, Kenny Omega, Kota Ibushi, The Young Bucks, Katsuyori Shibata, Will Ospreay, Jon Moxley, Juice Robinson, Gabe Kidd and David Finlay off the top of my head. Moxley was wrestling in NJPW as an AEW wrestler so they didn't really lose him to AEW. The biggest issues came more from COVID shutting things down. The Elite were lost before a relationship started so it doesn't quite compare. Beyond those while I do think its a shame how much talent NJPW has lost to AEW you have to remember a lot of this is because damage the pandemic did leading to NJPW making way the hell less money to pay major names. Half may have still left to AEW & WWE eventually, but I suspect if NJPW was still doing the business they were doing in 2018-2019 a good chunk would have never left beyond those who had problems with management (Okada & Ibushi).
zendragon Posted April 5 Posted April 5 3 hours ago, The Natural said: I don't think it needed the belt either. Yota Tsuji is spot on that the AEW partnership isn't helping NJPW. NJPW lost so many wrestlers to AEW: Kazuchika Okada, Kenny Omega, Kota Ibushi, The Young Bucks, Katsuyori Shibata, Will Ospreay, Jon Moxley, Juice Robinson, Gabe Kidd and David Finlay off the top of my head. I wonder if AEW never happens how many of these guys might end up in WWE/NXTUK/TNA just do to preferring to work closer to home though? Seems like Ganjin staying in Japan long term like Dick Beyer is more the exception than the rule
SovietShooter Posted April 5 Posted April 5 3 hours ago, The Natural said: Yota Tsuji is spot on that the AEW partnership isn't helping NJPW. NJPW lost so many wrestlers to AEW 3 minutes ago, zendragon said: I wonder if AEW never happens how many of these guys might end up in WWE/NXTUK/TNA just do to preferring to work closer to home though? Seems like Ganjin staying in Japan long term like Dick Beyer is more the exception than the rule 2 hours ago, Eivion said: Beyond those while I do think its a shame how much talent NJPW has lost to AEW you have to remember a lot of this is because damage the pandemic did leading to NJPW making way the hell less money to pay major names One of the pillars of puroresu is the heroic Japanese defending the honor of Japan against the evil western gaijin. So if AEW didn't exist, unless NJPW would have a working realtionship with WWE, they would have a relationship with someone to get gaijin. Before AEW, NJPW had really invested in growing their own gaijin. Ospreay, White, ZSJr, Devitt, Anderson, and now Kidd, Conners and Findlay have all left. Plus guys like Fletcher & Davis. The difference from gaijin of the past is that these guys were all "homegrown" from their own Dojo. And, there wasn't the loyalty to the company the same way as with the natives. Yeah, Nakamura left, and then Okada. But those are the only two - the gaijin percentage is much higher. On the other hand, NJPW has to pay these guys if they want to keep them. If they can't do that, AEW paying them in a situation where NJPW can still have access to them is the next best thing. And for the wrestlers, if there was no AEW, and NJPW couldn't afford them, where would that all go? No one is paying as well as NJPW in the indies. 3
zendragon Posted April 5 Posted April 5 Osprey talked about "being a TNA kid" so maybe no AEW he ends up splitting time between TNA and RevPro, same with Finlay and Kidd possibly if they prefer a shorter trip to the US instead of Japan.
sabremike Posted April 6 Posted April 6 5 hours ago, Eivion said: I'm not entirely sure what your point is seeing that neither never said anything about wanting AEW to not exist. Its about the partnership being a little too one-sided. Moxley was wrestling in NJPW as an AEW wrestler so they didn't really lose him to AEW. The biggest issues came more from COVID shutting things down. The Elite were lost before a relationship started so it doesn't quite compare. Beyond those while I do think its a shame how much talent NJPW has lost to AEW you have to remember a lot of this is because damage the pandemic did leading to NJPW making way the hell less money to pay major names. Half may have still left to AEW & WWE eventually, but I suspect if NJPW was still doing the business they were doing in 2018-2019 a good chunk would have never left beyond those who had problems with management (Okada & Ibushi). The carping about AEW being a bad partner is something that irritates me in large part because the problems of NJPW are self inflicted by the very bad booking and it feels like an excuse to absolve the promotion of blame. And what do you think AEW should do to make it less "one sided", send his key guys to NJPW full time while fighting a life or death struggle against TKO? Or not sign guys and let them sign with TKO? 2 1
Casey Posted April 6 Posted April 6 r/NJPW seriously would've preferred Okada joining NXT and the Chase U stable over signing with AEW. 1 4
Eivion Posted April 6 Posted April 6 (edited) 52 minutes ago, sabremike said: The carping about AEW being a bad partner is something that irritates me in large part because the problems of NJPW are self inflicted by the very bad booking and it feels like an excuse to absolve the promotion of blame. And what do you think AEW should do to make it less "one sided", send his key guys to NJPW full time while fighting a life or death struggle against TKO? Or not sign guys and let them sign with TKO? Well first, I would argue only some of it is self-inflicted considering AEW quite literally started up by pulling a bunch of NJPW's gaijins over to it alongside dealing with a pandemic they couldn't do much about. Beyond that, I'm not sure anyone here or elsewhere was really trying to absolve NJPW of all blame. I certainly wasn't. I also think you are going a bit hard on the "life or death struggle against TKO" bit. Tony Khan has enough money that he has never remotely had to worry about TKO. Any of those guys signing to WWE would not have hurt AEW in the slightest, especially since most probably would not have liked it and left as soon as they could. I also never argued against AEW hiring NJPW guys as far as their current partnership goes. I get that you're annoyed as an AEW fan, but I also feel you were lightly snapping at the wrong people and creating a bit of a strawmen argument with your earlier comment. Edited April 6 by Eivion
Ramo2653 Posted April 6 Posted April 6 I think if there's no AEW the US NJPW guys would probably have ended up either in TNA or WWE at some point unless they already did a stint there and didn't like it (Juice being a good example of that). AJ said himself he was ready to go back to TNA until the WWE offer came up because he didn't like being away from his family for longer periods of time like that and Gallows and Anderson were ready to sign to TNA too. For the British NJPW guys, they'd probably stick around for tours and do British indies and maybe ROH if they're still around. The Aussies I'd say are probably in a similar boat as the British guys except they'd work different indies. Of course some of these guys would probably take an offer with WWE or TNA if it came up too. People leave companies all the time, if a company can't adapt, then it's on their management. 3
sabremike Posted April 6 Posted April 6 50 minutes ago, Eivion said: Well first, I would argue only some of it is self-inflicted considering AEW quite literally started up by pulling a bunch of NJPW's gaijins over to it alongside dealing with a pandemic they couldn't do much about. Beyond that, I'm not sure anyone here or elsewhere was really trying to absolve NJPW of all blame. I certainly wasn't. I also think you are going a bit hard on the "life or death struggle against TKO" bit. Tony Khan has enough money that he has never remotely had to worry about TKO. Any of those guys signing to WWE would not have hurt AEW in the slightest, especially since most probably would not have liked it and left as soon as they could. I also never argued against AEW hiring NJPW guys as far as their current partnership goes. I get that you're annoyed as an AEW fan, but I also feel you were lightly snapping at the wrong people and creating a bit of a strawmen argument with your earlier comment. Was AEW responsible for the unwatchable HOT bullshit up and down the cards or taking a literal national sports hero and booking him in such an awful manner that it defies belief, or the dumb thing with Tsuji refusing to defend the title against non NJPW wrestlers that inherently devalued it? And the life or death comment was in regards to why Tony isn't in a position to send all his heavy hitters over for tours and not just certain dates. The stuff is clearly an attempt to push AEW as the bad guys and it annoys me greatly.
sabremike Posted April 6 Posted April 6 While on the topic: Said it before but one thing I would like to see is AEW sending young guys who need reps to NJPW in the same way NJPW sends guys out on excursions. This would also show you the guys who really want it as well because if you are willing to go live and work in Japan for a year you are clearly willing to put in the work and sacrifices needed to make it. 2 1
username Posted April 6 Posted April 6 The partnership started as an even one and has clearly shifted to one being the minor partner/feeder for the other, if you can't see why those partial to NJPW would have some hard feelings over that then I have no clue what to tell you; if the shoe was on the other foot I am sure many AEW fans would feel similarly. I don't think there is necessarily a reason to blame AEW for it in an objective sense, but it recently has probably done more harm than good for NJPW (if they get Ospreay and others back much more this year then maybe it'll turn around) and I don't think there is anything to read into fans or people who work there feeling that way beyond "yeah, I kinda get it".
Recommended Posts