April 2026 Wrestling Discussion and News

[JLowe]

2 hours ago, SirSmUgly said:

Jericho peaking in 1998 is kinda sad. He's the wrestling version of Al Bundy and his 1998 run is roughly equivalent to scoring four touchdowns for Polk High.

The Monday Night Jericho heel run was fantastic, that was the first wrestling shirt I ever bought and wish I still had it. I actually don’t remember a lot of his Y2J run, and I stopped watching WWE for the most part by 2003.

[tbarrie]

2 hours ago, twiztor said:

i know [Jericho] had a bit of a renaissance in 2008ish, but being that i had quit watching WWE by that time, my preference would be that when he left WWE in 2005 he never returned to pro wrestling in any kind of permanent role. 

That might very well have led to AEW never getting off the ground. Not sure if that's intentional on your part.

2 hours ago, SirSmUgly said:

Jericho peaking in 1998 is kinda sad. He's the wrestling version of Al Bundy and his 1998 run is roughly equivalent to scoring four touchdowns for Polk High.

He turned 28 in 1998, though. So not really as bad as peaking in high school.

[Elsalvajeloco]

I cannot quite say Jericho peaked in 1998. Keep in mind, the guy had already been wrestling since the beginning of the 1990s. There are folks right now that in ring wise aren't as good as say 1995 Chris Jericho. I think what might hurt Chris in people's eyes is he got more notoriety as an entertainer than he did in almost ten years as a good worker and good wrestler. So of course, that means I have turn the entertainer mode up x500 especially once I get to the big dance of the WWF. In addition, he has always been pliable to doing different things which has allowed him to sorta recreate himself over various periods. That has helped him make a lot of money in the pro wrestling industry, but I dunno if creatively that allowed him to find something that actually connects with fans in the most authentic way. By the time he had the run to open up the Dynamite era, he was over with the fans but no longer in the physical condition to maintain. Hell, screw 25 year old Jericho. If he were 35-40 years old, he would still be in the hunt with the rest of the top guys in AEW. He would have never been off TV. IMO I think because he never found something that connects with fans in that way he wouldn't have change things up every 2-3 years, he keeps trying to fish for something that's never going to garner anything more than a decent 6-10 months before he has to do something new again.

[username]

FWIW Jericho is actually a remarkably solid wrestler for being age 55, it's just that the vast majority of wrestlers who make it to age 55 are physically shot and just sorta play the hits for nostalgia (see Minoru Suzuki). Jericho wanting to still be an actual normal wrestler at that age is both commendable and not a great idea.

Creatively he's had some wild up and downs over... well almost his entire televised career. I don't know that there's a real way to sort of cut things down to just the "good" Jericho, one pretty much always got both from him over any significant stretch.

[twiztor]

6 hours ago, tbarrie said:

That might very well have led to AEW never getting off the ground. Not sure if that's intentional on your part.

not intentional, i enjoy AEW more than i don't. that thought crossed my mind, but i believe that if jericho never came back in 2008 (and however many times after that...) we could have had somone else at the top of the card who could have filled that role.

that being said, if i had to choose between AEW vs. Jericho retiring in 2005, then i guess i'll be singing Judas at every Dynamite.

[SirSmUgly]

Chris Jericho is 55 now. He peaked at 28 and started wrestling at 20. From the perspective of his career, he didn't peak in high school, I must admit.

He peaked in middle school.

I'm not going to argue that Jericho hasn't been a useful part of many rosters since 1998, but I'm having a hard time seeing in which year his character/promo work and in-ring output were both as high as they were in 1998 at the same time. Maybe he had a better in-ring year one year; maybe he had better character and promo work one year (though this, I doubt). I don't think he had a year where both were at as high a level as they were in '98. I expect to hear more about 2002 and 2008, but I don't think any of Jericho's WWF runs aged particularly well on the whole. 

[Cobra Commander]

I made a version of the reference in the AEW news thread but Jericho and Weezer sorta overlap in the sense that their best stuff is enjoyable, and their worst stuff is just not worthwhile

in the case of Weezer... for years, I thought Weezer was a band who either had good radio-friendly songs or just forgettable songs (that's not technically true, I eventually found a Weezer song I liked that wasn't a single)... also, i'm talking stuff like buying the Green Album like 20 years ago and just not liking anything that wasn't a single.. it's possible that Weezer with Matt Sharp around wasn't pumping their albums with filler

Weezer's also a band with at least one song that I hated at the time and still do... their cover of "Africa" by Toto. Some of Jericho's AEW work was very much in the same energy as the Teal Album, an album so fucking insipid that they could play it over a loudspeaker to torture detainees. My main problem with that era of Weezer is that they're basically doing karaoke and it's lazy. Since then, they released a few albums and I remember nothing about them

There's a few 90s acts that are sorta in the same city block of being charmingly dorky. Weezer. Beck. Stuff like that. Beck never keeps the same genre for long but it's still sorta dork pop at it's core. Weezer and Rivers are pretty much filling the void in the market with the songs they got radio play with in the 2000s/2010s

Jericho was one of my first favorites when I started watching in 97/98. His core is more "dork doing heavy metal" than any other genre but it's sort of an image of being a really good worker and actually having a relatable personality to internet wrestling dorks of the late 90s. As opposed to other guys of the late 90s who were really good workers and either obviously going through issues, or really good workers who were also damaging their brain to the point that they would murder multiple people on the way out.

These days, Jericho is sorta like Randy the Ram. A comparison I only make since they ran that feud over 15 years ago. Jericho is a lot more fun when he's fun and really in recent years he's been more tedious. Like, I guess Jericho should be a nostalgia act now but AEW really doesn't frequently do that unless you're Sting.

Is Jericho one of those guys who can actually book someone who isn't Jericho? or would it fuck things up to let Chris Jericho handle creative for other wrestlers?

[Elsalvajeloco]

7 hours ago, SirSmUgly said:

Chris Jericho is 55 now. He peaked at 28 and started wrestling at 20. From the perspective of his career, he didn't peak in high school, I must admit.

He peaked in middle school.

I'm not going to argue that Jericho hasn't been a useful part of many rosters since 1998, but I'm having a hard time seeing in which year his character/promo work and in-ring output were both as high as they were in 1998 

What was he exactly doing in 1998 that was that high in terms of a bar? Jericho was good in 1998 but Ric Flair 1989 or Akira Hokuto 1993 or Bret Hart 1994 it is not. IMO Just by virtue of not being in 1998-99 WCW where they are reaching a (pre Russo) creative nadir, his initial first 3-4 years in WWE are better. Having rewatched 1997-1998 a few times now and recently, he has some good segments but goddamn does Skynet become self aware when he has Jericho's Personal Security. He had some absolute stinker segments. Part of it is him trying to figure it out on the fly, part of it is they probably let him have too much creative control, and the rest of just WCW being WCW. In ring, he doesn't have a match or matches in 1998 where it's like goddamn Chris has elevated himself above what he was the previous 2-3 years. IMO 1998 Jericho shows what his potential is, but also showed his limitations that mostly could be contributed to it all being slotted as a mid card novelty act. Moreover, once it became clear Bill Goldberg wasn't going to work with him in any serious manner, he became just another mid card dork. It's not much different than what happened when Jeff Jarrett became National champ during the WWF NWA Invasion angle and Austin hit him with a stunner and then did the worst Fargo strut ever to mock him. There is nothing and I mean nothing on par with say his match at Fully Loaded 2000 where it could be argued that him beating Hunter would have absolutely made him. However, they had an awesome match and he lost. He still came out of that match a much bigger star and it legitimized him a bit, but it would have put him in a light that the Undisputed title win in 2001 didn't do. 

I think there is a bit of revisionist history here cause if people remember, pre WrestleMania X8 before he got used as Stephanie's minion and was a background character in his own feud, Jericho was such a darling to the internet and everyone because he was presented in a way where clearly he was going to be slotted as the guy who would take over once Austin and Rock were out of the picture (or at worst, slotted as 1b/2 with whomever would get that spot). We'd never seen anyone in WWF/E not named Shawn Michaels that size who got to shine in that role. He got to have a bunch of good matches on TV and PPVs and a bunch of mic time. Then, the Invasion flopped in a way that they rushed through stuff and hit the panic button fast. He becomes undisputed champion with little to no buildup even though everyone was rooting for him as an underdog to prevail. Then, in 2002 after Mania, they immediately shift gears and go with a youth movement/building their top guys from developmental and the company that existed in 2000-2001 no longer exists. If someone in 1999-2000 told you that by 2003-2004, both Rock and Austin would no longer be the main players in WWE and the company chose to go in an entirely different direction, you would want to have that person committed to their local insane asylum. It couldn't have went worse for someone who in terms of linear progress had everything going for him. It would be like if Misawa beat Jumbo Tsuruta in 1990 and in then 1993 or 94, Baba does a 180 due to some injuries, horrible timing of certain events, and creative going south and has him lose to the likes of Kikuchi and Yoshinari Ogawa. From there, he becomes the highest level utility guy they have not named Paul Wight until he takes that sabbatical. I think part of the reason he took that sabbatical outside of just Fozzy is he virtually got treated like Lefty in Donnie Brasco. He was suppose to be made one of THE guys and not being shifted aimless from feud to feud. There is a world (and an interesting one) where he never returns after 2005. At most, he does a few Mania appearances and a one off match. Maybe two.

If you want to say that he peaked then when everything seemed onward and upward, you will get no argument from me. To me and I think a lot of people, that's when he went from this amazing supernova Chris Jericho to Chris Jericho the caricature of something that seems good.

[DMN]

On 4/1/2026 at 3:41 PM, Elsalvajeloco said:

It makes me laugh when jobbers are being billed from there. First off, are they someone's landscaper or pool cleaner? Cause that's the only way they would be in Hollywood or Beverly Hills or Brentwood. Second, why devalue something like that on enhancement talent?

That reminds me when the NWO/The Outsiders would face jobbers in a NWO presented match on WCW Saturday Night. They would do a Tale of the Tape and for some guy's record (I believe tagging up with Pez Whatley of all people), they listed, "It Ain't Much". 

Jobbers should be billed from North Hollywood, then it would be believable. Although, being completely honest, no star from 'Hollywood' actually lives in Hollywood, which makes me wonder if anyone has been billed from 'The Hollywood Hills', or like, Brentwood.

On 4/1/2026 at 5:04 PM, Zimbra said:

Given the rumors flying around, here is a little gedankenspiel for the crowd: You have been recruited as an agent for a shadowy organization and been issued a gun and a time machine.  Your mission is to travel through time protecting the legacies of artists by shooting them in the head before they have the chance to ruin them (e.g. you dome Robert DeNiro before he starts making family comedies).    It's understood you'll probably miss some good stuff, but your goal is leaving them with the best possible overall ouevre.

The first name on your list is Chris Jericho.  When are you going and why?

I don't actually have an answer for this one because I feel like the 'right' answer happened when I wasn't watching wrestling.

The RAW after Vengeance 2001. That's pretty much Jericho's high water mark, defeats Austin and Rock, unifies the belt, and then goes to be Stephanie's bitch until HHH kills him off. Not that there isn't some good stuff after that, but I'd say that after that, but before the build for WM starts, is pretty much his peak.

[Technico Support]

Funny how neither the Inner Circle, nor the JAS, nor the Learning Tree elevated anyone.  Nobody in those groups ended up in better spots and none of them are doing shit on the roster today.  It couldn’t be that Jericho stocked these groups either guys who couldn’t be a threat to his spot, right?

[Eivion]

1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

Funny how neither the Inner Circle, nor the JAS, nor the Learning Tree elevated anyone.  Nobody in those groups ended up in better spots and none of them are doing shit on the roster today.  It couldn’t be that Jericho stocked these groups either guys who couldn’t be a threat to his spot, right?

is MJF not currently the champ?

[Elsalvajeloco]

Guevara also suppose to be made as well but between injuries, weird booking, and getting in hot water cause of stuff with Mercedes kinda killed any momentum he had. I would also say DG got elevated as well. 

In addition, once it gets split up, what happens afterwards definitely ain't his problem. He isn't in charge of creative.

IMO the problem isn't as much Jericho being intimidated by young talent. If that was the case, he would never be in a stable in the first place. It was probably of him wanted to elevate too much younger talent when he himself was not in the best position to do that. Maybe when he first came into AEW and could still have a half way decent match and was AEW champ. An (even) older Jericho who is no longer top 5 in the company where he's positioned? Not so much.

 

 

[tbarrie]

2 hours ago, Eivion said:

is MJF not currently the champ?

Does the angle where MJF pretended to want to join the Inner Circle count? I can't remember if he was officially a member briefly, but if so, then I guess it sort of does.

Though I think it's pretty clear MJF was headed for the top with or without that angle, though.

Edited April 3 by tbarrie

[The Natural]

In its first year alone, the Austin 3:16 shirt generated $12 million in merchandise sales, according to Kurt Angle, who said Vince McMahon told him the figure directly. Austin himself said in a 2023 interview that his total earnings from the shirt alone have reached eight figures.

---

Read that today. The Austin 3:16 shirt is my pick for the best wrestling shirt ever made.

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, Eivion said:

is MJF not currently the champ?

That was an angle, not actual membership.  I mean, Moxley accepted membership for about 20 seconds.  Do you count him?

[Elsalvajeloco]

3 hours ago, DMN said:

Jobbers should be billed from North Hollywood, then it would be believable. Although, being completely honest, no star from 'Hollywood' actually lives in Hollywood, which makes me wonder if anyone has been billed from 'The Hollywood Hills', or like, Brentwood.

El Segundo would be a great choice for someone who also works at LAX.

[SirSmUgly]

8 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

What was he exactly doing in 1998 that was that high in terms of a bar? Jericho was good in 1998 but Ric Flair 1989 or Akira Hokuto 1993 or Bret Hart 1994 it is not

I don't understand this argument. You can peak at what you're doing without being among the best in the world, you know? I peaked as a ten-pin bowler in my late 20s/early 30s, but I was never anywhere near going on the tour and making television. That's an unfair comparison to Jericho, but you get the point. Strange deflection from the core argument here. 

Quote

IMO Just by virtue of not being in 1998-99 WCW where they are reaching a (pre Russo) creative nadir, his initial first 3-4 years in WWE are better.

Agree to disagree. The midcard was still generally ignored by Bischoff/Sullivan/et al., which means they left Jericho to his own devices. He had a couple of letdown promos, but I don't think he had many stinkers at all. His instincts are shockingly consistently good into about early 1999. At the point where he's feuding with Konnan and Perry Saturn and dreaming about getting out of Atlanta is where things start to spin off the rails a bit, but that's at the cap end of '98. 

We can go through the matches, too. Jericho/Juventud at SuperBrawl '98 admittedly isn't Flair/Funk I Quit or whatever, but it's generally indicative of the quality of work he was doing on PPV. That's a high bar. Like I wrote, I'm open to the idea that he surpassed that bar (in fact, '98 probably wasn't his best year in WCW alone when looked at from purely an in-ring standpoint), but I don't think he both surpassed that bar and was as good in all the other stuff. 

Quote

I think there is a bit of revisionist history here cause if people remember, pre WrestleMania X8 before he got used as Stephanie's minion and was a background character in his own feud, Jericho was such a darling to the internet and everyone because he was presented in a way where clearly he was going to be slotted as the guy who would take over once Austin and Rock were out of the picture (or at worst, slotted as 1b/2 with whomever would get that spot).

That's what I like to do here. I rewatch and revise my thoughts. I've seen that stuff again. My thoughts are that he's not helped by the creative nadir that is the Attitude Era by 1999 and 2000. It's not like he showed up in 1997 WWF when he left WCW. By his departure in late '99, Russo had already moved the WWF along into a creative nadir that I'm not sure they escaped for a long time (though that's another post in itself). 

Quote

If you want to say that he peaked then when everything seemed onward and upward, you will get no argument from me. 

Sure, even if we can't agree on the particulars of when that was, I'm down with this argument. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

47 minutes ago, SirSmUgly said:

I don't understand this argument. You can peak at what you're doing without being among the best in the world, you know? I peaked as a ten-pin bowler in my late 20s/early 30s, but I was never anywhere near going on the tour and making television. That's an unfair comparison to Jericho, but you get the point. Strange deflection from the core argument here. 

I don't think most people see that as his peak though. At best, you can say that's when people were introduced to non white meat babyface Chris Jericho.

47 minutes ago, SirSmUgly said:

Agree to disagree. The midcard was still generally ignored by Bischoff/Sullivan/et al., which means they left Jericho to his own devices. He had a couple of letdown promos, but I don't think he had many stinkers at all. His instincts are shockingly consistently good into about early 1999. At the point where he's feuding with Konnan and Perry Saturn and dreaming about getting out of Atlanta is where things start to spin off the rails a bit, but that's at the cap end of '98. 

We can go through the matches, too. Jericho/Juventud at SuperBrawl '98 admittedly isn't Flair/Funk I Quit or whatever, but it's generally indicative of the quality of work he was doing on PPV. That's a high bar. 

Jericho/Juvi was decent, but had much better matches than that. That's not exactly a high bar. He had been consistently having matches like this since he was like WAR and in Mexico.

I don't see anything in Jericho during those moments where he couldn't easily surpass that mark. At best, especially at the beginning when the turn starts, they have some really clever creative. However, from there, it's likely how wacky can he be. It's fun but he ain't exactly recreating the wheel. It's hovering around what we saw with Matt Hardy v2.0. It's ridiculous but in a fun midcard way. No more, nothing less. 

47 minutes ago, SirSmUgly said:

That's what I like to do here. I rewatch and revise my thoughts. I've seen that stuff again. My thoughts are that he's not helped by the creative nadir that is the Attitude Era by 1999 and 2000. It's not like he showed up in 1997 WWF when he left WCW. By his departure in late '99, Russo had already moved the WWF along into a creative nadir that I'm not sure they escaped for a long time (though that's another post in itself). 

i would say at worst, Jericho elevates the material he's given at a time where they just said fuck all good taste. Yeah, I would definitely say that even after Russo left, they still lend themselves to being very over the top and going for shock value to the point where for several people attributed certain creative to Russo when he had been long gone by then. However, I don't see it being unlike it was for anyone else. The fact still remains the fans are going nuts for a guy who a year or so prior to being in WWF was just some dude in WCW at best. If he had peaked prior to leaving, it would have nosedived in a way where they would have jobbed him out quick. Vince didn't need to look for reasons to bury ex WCW guys. If you listen to Bruce or JR on their podcasts, they had big plans for Jericho because he was so over and doing great work. I think the issue is at that point when they were doing what...six and sevens in ratings? They were too big to fail. That weird space between Austin's return in 2000 and the Invasion 2001 that seems to be lost to time, they were red hot but dammit if some of that creative wasn't terrible. I believe the best creative for Jericho was like, "hey you're gonna piss in Regal's tea and that's your Mania match". They were just throwing darts at the wall, man. That's coming off what many people consider to be the best match of 2001 with Benoit at the Rumble two or three months earlier. So Jericho, like several others, was one of those guys who was doing amazing DESPITE bad creative.

I think the reason why 1997-1998 Jericho gets remember fondly (maybe too fondly) is that judging by his WCW run prior to that, I don't think anyone expected him to given anything to do. He very easily could have been Alex Wright where they just do random things with him like interrupt Nitro Girls segments and get squashed by a very new Bill Goldberg. The expectations for him were so damn low to the point where I don't think it would have been surprising if he got quietly released from WCW and went back to work for Paul in ECW again. That's also a world where because of the Evenflow ripoff music, he either gets the Saturn or Riggs spot in the Flock or feuds with Raven and stays a white meat babyface.

[The Natural]

On this date in 2023, WWE was officially sold to Endeavor and merged with UFC to create TKO Group Holdings. The deal was confirmed on April 3, the day after WrestleMania 39 Night 2. It was the end of the McMahon family's majority ownership of WWE. WrestleMania 39 became the last WrestleMania held under McMahon family control.

[elizium]

On 4/1/2026 at 7:54 AM, Dolfan in NYC said:

...wait.   When exactly is Dubba M's contract up?  

Context on this, she was throwing beer at one specific fan. The worst, most obnoxious fan at every WPW show. He loudly called her a bitch. We all hate him, it was fine, we were glad to see it. Even the fans that got accidentally splashed had a good time with it. Match ruled, Mercedes rules

[Cobra Commander]

one thing a manager could do for a wrestler in 2026 is identifying which obnoxious fans need to have beer thrown on them

[elizium]

Honestly, it really did a lot for her angle of having a mental breakdown because she's lost a dozen titles in a month

[SirSmUgly]

33 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

one thing a manager could do for a wrestler in 2026 is identifying which obnoxious fans need to have beer thrown on them

If I'm kayfabe paying a manager thirty percent of my pre-tax earnings, they'd sure as hell better be throwing that beer for me. 

[Eivion]

4 hours ago, tbarrie said:

Does the angle where MJF pretended to want to join the Inner Circle count? I can't remember if he was officially a member briefly, but if so, then I guess it sort of does.

Though I think it's pretty clear MJF was headed for the top with or without that angle, though.

 

4 hours ago, Technico Support said:

That was an angle, not actual membership.  I mean, Moxley accepted membership for about 20 seconds.  Do you count him?

Eh, according to wiki MJF was a member for around 3 months. I'm pretty sure that is more than 20 seconds.

[twiztor]

if Jericho had to suddenly retire after his 1998, he would be one of those mythical "what ifs" in the business. i don't know that i'd necessarily call it his absolute peak, mainly due to the perceived limitations of being "stuck" in the cruiserweight division, but if we never saw what came after, it would change the conversation completely.

match wise, i think the three way feud with Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit would rank pretty highly. I'm now envisioning if he had been swapped in to be part of the Smackdown Six after the initial brand split, and i think he would have thrived there. Instead, he (checks notes) had a bunch of filler one month feuds that held no significance.