WWE TV - 12/8 - 12/14/2025 - His Time Is Up, Your Time Is Now

[NoFistsJustFlips]

https://x.com/RealJeffJarrett/status/2000073989474165154?s=20

Not sure why it wont embed, but ol Double J has a very similar take. Quick everyone go tell him how he doesn't understand the wrestling business lol.

Edited December 15, 2025 by NoFistsJustFlips

[NoFistsJustFlips]

3 minutes ago, Stefanie Sparkleface said:

Also, that "hive mind" comment was unnecessary. You're not arguing with people who are never going to see your post, so unless you're trying to paint certain people here with a specific brush, you didn't need to say that.

You're right. I went back and edited that part out.

[Cobra Commander]

really the only real quibble I have is that I would have had a pass out finish instead of a tap out but I doubt the people who disliked it would have liked that finish either

[The Natural]

1 hour ago, Cobra Commander said:

really the only real quibble I have is that I would have had a pass out finish instead of a tap out but I doubt the people who disliked it would have liked that finish either

I'd have liked that finish a lot more, passing out to tapping out.

[The Natural]

Meltzer:

— They did show McMahon on television in a brief clip in a Cena video and the crowd in Washington, DC cheered. No surprise.

— Regarding the finish of the match, we talked in detail about it last night. There was a lot of booing and “You f***ed up” chants and Paul Levesque after the match and in the post-show as well as a chant of “AEW” at one point.  This is one of those things, ike the Cody Rhodes loss to Roman Reigns the first time, or the Steve Austin heel turn, where it’s better to evaluate in nine months based on where Gunther is.  For the day it wasn’t what the fans would have wanted. It was what Cena and the company wanted because of their idea that it’s about making someone on the way out. This fan base is rarely negative about decisions, but they were last night. 

— Regarding the finish of the match, we talked in detail about it last night. There was a lot of booing and “You f***ed up” chants and Paul Levesque after the match and in the post-show as well as a chant of “AEW” at one point.  This is one of those things, ike the Cody Rhodes loss to Roman Reigns the first time, or the Steve Austin heel turn, where it’s better to evaluate in nine months based on where Gunther is.  For the day it wasn’t what the fans would have wanted. It was what Cena and the company wanted because of their idea that it’s about making someone on the way out. This fan base is rarely negative about decisions, but they were last night. 

I do think most will consider from a story standpoint that the Cena farewell overall was not well done because of the heel turn with no idea what to do next and the turn back having no storyline at all past we made a mistake and we have to undo it.  Here, it wasn’t what the audience wanted but that doesn’t make it wrong.  It doesn’t make it right. It would not be what I would have done in this specific situation but long-term we’ll see. 

The Reigns-Rhodes thing happened when the audience was at its peak and right now big shows are very strong but there are the obvious signs of a slight cool off anyway and really if you take Cena out of the last month it would have been even worse.  Cena is gone but now it’s coming up on the hottest time of the year with the build to the Rumble and Mania.  

— Neither Vince McMahon nor Donald Trump was at the show. They wanted Trump. He attended the Army vs. Navy football game not far away and could have made it to both but his decision was not to come. Linda McMahon was at the event. Jesse Ventura was only put on the pre-show.

Edited December 15, 2025 by The Natural

[Cobra Commander]

the sleeper was devalued a lot through constant mid-match usage in the 90s but I think it's sorta made a comeback even if most of the sleeper usage these days involves a bodyscissors on the mat

[odessasteps]

In an era of things like the Canadian Destroyer, I think most old school moves could be rehabilitated with proper booking. Maybe not the claw, but if you had the right person do it. 

[Cobra Commander]

might be able to have the Claw work as a pinning move if you couldn't do blood in the promotion since a lot of the appeal to the claw involves implying it could make an opponent bleed

[username]

I do like how some people mentioned Sting's final run in comparison as I think they sorta had opposite problems: I have no problem with Sting winning his last match, but I also think booking someone in their 60s to not lose a single thing over three years and like 30ish matches is nuts. Perhaps in a better world Cena just passes out and Sting coulda dropped a fall to Hobbs or Takeshita, but such is life.

[odessasteps]

6 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

might be able to have the Claw work as a pinning move if you couldn't do blood in the promotion since a lot of the appeal to the claw involves implying it could make an opponent bleed

I don’t know if someone with insane Danny Hidge like grip strength would get over, since people would just think it’s a work. Maybe a giant ish guy or girl. Maybe Rachel or Lash could get it over by putting it in some if the tiny women on the roster.

[Ramo2653]

I can't believe folks got this worked up over the finish to Cena's retirement match. For all the comments about people not liking Cena in the lead up, this has been a funny read tonight.

[ExcellenceofAirPollution]

5 hours ago, Eivion said:

 Like with exception of Niners and Natural I feel like most of the people mad are not even Cena fans. This just feels like an excuse to complain.

I feel like this could be directed at me since I gave my two cents (agreeing with the two you named) and rarely post in here.

First off, I'm not mad.  Why would I be mad about something I don't even watch?  I think the last time something in wrestling genuinely upset me was WarGames 97 and I wasn't old enough to drive yet.  I'm also not much of a complainer I don't think.  Right now this very second I'm actually kinda mad, nah more like annoyed that we apparently can't post our thoughts without certain people saying "U MAD?" or calling you a complainer than anything to do with WWE.  As someone who watched WWF/E on the regular from the mid-80's to 2018 or so and knows that company inside and out I feel more than qualified to give my opinion on their booking when I feel like it, and anyone who has a problem with it can STFU (see what I did there?!)

As for "not even Cena fans" I consider myself a moderate Cena fan.  Like a 6 or 7/10.  I watched the bulk of his career, from the start, with the various ups and downs and bad booking it entailed.  I have fond memories of his parking lot brawl with Eddie, his US title win at Mania XX, his stuff with Jericho in 05, his match with Sabu during the WWECW days, matches with Umaga and Khali, the time him and Orton squashed the whole RAW roster, the I Quit match with Orton, a random Batista match I liked a lot, the stuff with Punk and Danielson, Workrate Cena with AJ and others......and much much more than I care to list because the guy was involved in a ton of good shit and I SAW ALL OF IT.  He's one of the greatest WWF/E Superstars ever.  For the most part I always liked the guy, even when it was from the "love to hate him" perspective because he was such a good sport about it and it was fun when the crowds were split, though there were definitely times he wore out his welcome being on top for so long.  And I'm from New England so having a guy from Massachusetts who made it part of his character was kinda cool.  I think I might actually like him more now as Peacemaker than I ever did as a wrestler though

And unless any more people feel the need to make vague callouts or argue with me for having an opinion that's hopefully the last I'll post about Cena/WWE for a long time.   I understand some of you here are still fans, more power to you, and we certainly don't want people coming into the AEW sub just to point and laugh at us because Mox is bleeding and there's only 2k fans or the pyro is subpar or whatever  

[The Natural]

John Cena submission losses:

Kurt Angle. No Mercy 2003.

Chris Benoit. Smackdown, 2nd December 2003.

Kurt Angle. No Way Out 2004.

Gunther. Saturday Night's Main Event, 13th December 2025.

[The Natural]

Here's my top ten John Cena matches:

10. John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar. WWE SummerSlam 2014.

9. John Cena vs. CM Punk. WWE RAW, 25th February 2013.

8. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels. WWE RAW, 23rd April 2007.

7. John Cena vs. AJ Styles. WWE Royal Rumble 2017. *****.

6. John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar vs. Seth Rollins. WWE Royal Rumble 2015. *****.

5. John Cena vs. AJ Styles. WWE Crown Jewel 2025. *****.

4. John Cena vs. Umaga. WWE Royal Rumble 2007. *****.

3. John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar. WWE Extreme Rules 2012. *****.

2. John Cena vs. CM Punk. WWE Money in the Bank 2011. *****.

1. John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan. WWE SummerSlam 2013. *****.

[Eivion]

4 hours ago, ExcellenceofAirPollution said:

I feel like this could be directed at me since I gave my two cents (agreeing with the two you named) and rarely post in here.

First off, I'm not mad.  Why would I be mad about something I don't even watch?  I think the last time something in wrestling genuinely upset me was WarGames 97 and I wasn't old enough to drive yet.  I'm also not much of a complainer I don't think.  Right now this very second I'm actually kinda mad, nah more like annoyed that we apparently can't post our thoughts without certain people saying "U MAD?" or calling you a complainer than anything to do with WWE.  As someone who watched WWF/E on the regular from the mid-80's to 2018 or so and knows that company inside and out I feel more than qualified to give my opinion on their booking when I feel like it, and anyone who has a problem with it can STFU (see what I did there?!)

As for "not even Cena fans" I consider myself a moderate Cena fan.  Like a 6 or 7/10.  I watched the bulk of his career, from the start, with the various ups and downs and bad booking it entailed.  I have fond memories of his parking lot brawl with Eddie, his US title win at Mania XX, his stuff with Jericho in 05, his match with Sabu during the WWECW days, matches with Umaga and Khali, the time him and Orton squashed the whole RAW roster, the I Quit match with Orton, a random Batista match I liked a lot, the stuff with Punk and Danielson, Workrate Cena with AJ and others......and much much more than I care to list because the guy was involved in a ton of good shit and I SAW ALL OF IT.  He's one of the greatest WWF/E Superstars ever.  For the most part I always liked the guy, even when it was from the "love to hate him" perspective because he was such a good sport about it and it was fun when the crowds were split, though there were definitely times he wore out his welcome being on top for so long.  And I'm from New England so having a guy from Massachusetts who made it part of his character was kinda cool.  I think I might actually like him more now as Peacemaker than I ever did as a wrestler though

And unless any more people feel the need to make vague callouts or argue with me for having an opinion that's hopefully the last I'll post about Cena/WWE for a long time.   I understand some of you here are still fans, more power to you, and we certainly don't want people coming into the AEW sub just to point and laugh at us because Mox is bleeding and there's only 2k fans or the pyro is subpar or whatever  

Wasn't really aiming at you specifically, but more pointing out that sometimes it does feel like people come into these threads under false pretenses to complain about a product they don't actually care about in the sense of them actually wanting it to be good. They just see a chance to take a shot at WWE, HHH, etc. It feels counter productive and is annoying. I dislike that attitude with anything including when it happens in AEW threads.

[For Great Justice]

I wonder if the finish hits different if 1) Gunther hadn’t tapped out to Jey Uso and 2) we still had jumbo sized Gunther.

Love the dude, he’s crazy talented and the impact on his long term health is way more important than this, but the Vader/Hansen/Gordy/Doc gimmick just doesn’t hit the same at 2 bills vs at 3 bills. 

Like he isn’t presented as a Brock Lesnar-esk force of nature - he’s been yucking it ip in the generic-ass Raw main event scene for a couple of years now. I dunno, kind of a disconnect between his 2025 booking and how this match was booked. 

[The Natural]

14 minutes ago, For Great Justice said:

I wonder if the finish hits different if 1) Gunther hadn’t tapped out to Jey Uso and 2) we still had jumbo sized Gunther.

Love the dude, he’s crazy talented and the impact on his long term health is way more important than this, but the Vader/Hansen/Gordy/Doc gimmick just doesn’t hit the same at 2 bills vs at 3 bills. 

Like he isn’t presented as a Brock Lesnar-esk force of nature - he’s been yucking it ip in the generic-ass Raw main event scene for a couple of years now. I dunno, kind of a disconnect between his 2025 booking and how this match was booked. 

Still pissed at Gunther tapping out to Jey Uso. I do miss chunky WALTER but his health is way more important.

Reflecting on the finish to Gunther vs. John Cena. That's one of the most I've ever been pissed by: that, Gunther/Uso, the Streak ending, the Montreal Screwjob, Sting/Fk Hulk Hogan at Starrcade 1997, Rollins/Fiend Hell in a Cell,  Moxley/Danielson at WrestleDream 2024, Brock Lesnar and Charlotte Flair winning the 2022 Royal Rumble matches.

[Eivion]

49 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Still pissed at Gunther tapping out to Jey Uso.

Why? Its how he lost the NXT UK title. And Jey was that over with the audience at the time. Do you think your love of Gunther and dislike and/or disinterest in Jey Uso is that much more important?

Edited December 15, 2025 by Eivion

[The Natural]

12 minutes ago, Eivion said:

Why? It how he lost the NXT UK title. And Jey was that over with the audience at the time. Do you think your love of Gunther and dislike and/or disinterest in Jey Uso is that much more important?

I remember Ilja Dragunov submitting WALTER for the NXT UK Championship with a sleeper. I could buy that with Ilja unlike Jey Uso. I just don't see Jey Uso as a main eventer. He's been pushed above his station. I can only come up with a few singles matches of his I like. I was in the minority then when Jey's popularity was at its peak winning the Royal Rumble match and World Heavyweight Championship. He's not a solo star. Some are suited better as tags and there's no shame in that.

Edited December 15, 2025 by The Natural

[Log]

10 hours ago, The Natural said:

Meltzer:

— They did show McMahon on television in a brief clip in a Cena video and the crowd in Washington, DC cheered. No surprise.

— Neither Vince McMahon nor Donald Trump was at the show. They wanted Trump. He attended the Army vs. Navy football game not far away and could have made it to both but his decision was not to come. Linda McMahon was at the event. Jesse Ventura was only put on the pre-show.

Why are people defending this company?

[Eivion]

15 minutes ago, The Natural said:

I remember Ilja Dragunov submitting WALTER for the NXT UK Championship with a sleeper. I could buy that with Ilja unlike Jey Uso. I just don't see Jey Uso as a main eventer. He's been pushed above his station. I can only come up with a few singles matches of his I like. I was in the minority then when Jey's popularity was at its peak winning the Royal Rumble match and World Heavyweight Championship. He's not a solo star. Some are suited better as tags and there's no shame in that.

Whether or not you buy into him as a singles star doesn't really matter. The audience did at the time and mostly still do. You can be disappointed about the decision, but to be actively pissed off about it just goes a bit far to me. He put the work in, got over, and thus deserved the reward. Like this is literally the shit people got pissed at WWE for not doing in the past.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

3 hours ago, Eivion said:

Wasn't really aiming at you specifically, but more pointing out that sometimes it does feel like people come into these threads under false pretenses to complain about a product they don't actually care about in the sense of them actually wanting it to be good. They just see a chance to take a shot at WWE, HHH, etc. It feels counter productive and is annoying. I dislike that attitude with anything including when it happens in AEW threads.

I know this is how Im thought of but I do want to say I want WWE to be something I enjoy. Thats where my posts are so passionate / aggressive. Its frustration. I want it to be good. I want to like it.