WWE TV - 12/8 - 12/14/2025 - His Time Is Up, Your Time Is Now

[odessasteps]

41 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

cut to Vince in a South Florida mansion trying to remember some phone numbers so he can talk about how he would have put Cena over Gunther and sent the fans home happy

 

[Cobra Commander]

in 'real' sports, yeah occasionally the top guys go out after winning the title (Elway, Jordan 2 of 3 times) but then you also get guys like Favre going out how they went out

so, I wouldn't say guys should always lose their final match, but yeah the argument for losing makes sense

or to put it in John Cena terms, if Tom Brady didn't go out winning a Super Bowl

Edited December 14, 2025 by Cobra Commander

[Swift]

Why are people putting the blame on WWE/HHH for the finish? It shouldn't need to be said that that was 100% John Cena's call.

Edited December 14, 2025 by Swift

[username]

I saw one of the Observer folks talking about how WWE might have three different retirement runs next year (AJ, Brock, possibly Jericho) so I think setting up Gunther as the career killer makes all the sense in the world.

FWIW I would not be shocked to find out that Cena pushed for the tap out over passing out. It works against his wrestling mythology (which is finished) but actually helps his larger "great guy who gave every last bit he could to help out" mythology a good deal.

[Cobra Commander]

Just now, Swift said:

Why are people putting the blame on WWE/HHH for the finish? It shouldn't need to be said that that was 100% John Cena's call.

same reason that people boo Roger Goodell if they're mad at who won the Super Bowl?

it almost would be more marky if you paid a bunch of money, the heel went over, and you liked it... if the bad guy goes over, aren't fans supposed to be mad in some fashion?

[odessasteps]

If Cena Wins, We Riot …

#nostalgia

Edited December 14, 2025 by odessasteps

[Cobra Commander]

just imagining if they had brought out Trump in the HHH spot after that finish and got national coverage for fans booing Trump because Cena lost

[Cobra Commander]

it probably doesn't make sense for Gunther, but a segment of some heels throwing a celebration for Gunther defeating Cena would be a way to spend 10 minutes of TV

a celebration for Gunther, for equal time, of course

but yeah, it'd almost have to be a surprise party since Gunther's on-screen personality does not believe in such things

[Johnny Sorrow]

That match fucking ruled, and the finish was perfection. That slight grin on Cena's face right as he slowly tapped was some great shit, pal. When the loud smark contingent started chanting "You fucked up" at HHH I laughed out loud. Of all the things to get mad at him about, it's traditional booking that sends them over the edge.
Doesn't really matter since all that anger is going to get directed at Gunther on tv, and that's a gift.
 

Edited December 14, 2025 by Johnny Sorrow

[Johnny Sorrow]

Elias forcing his way into the shot to shake hands with Cena was fucking hilarious. For a second I forgot he's in TNA and I thought he crashed the show.

[Craig H]

That was the first time I have watched WWE in what feels like forever. I'm trying to think of the last time I watched. 

Their in ring product is so milquetoast. It is the glossiest horseshit you will ever see. There is no grit to anything. Everything is still super homogenized. It all moves in fucking slow motion. Like, Oba Femi looked fucking impressive. I thought, my god, this dude is a fucking star. What a hoss. Cody then gave him 80% of that match, which is the right move, and they end it on a DQ? Really? I mean, why not have the guy go over Cody? You create a star right there and create massive buzz for the product and the show that goes beyond it being a Cena reitrement party. Hey, it was Cena's last match, but did you see this Oba Femi guy look unstoppable?! Nah. Just do a lame as fuck DQ finish.

That Soul Snatcher was something else. I think what makes that is that Sol is so lanky. I'm probably not saying anything of meaning to anyone who watches NXT, but I don't, so that looked cool. The rest was again some real weak slow motion shit.

This was also my first time seeing Evans after hearing Alvarez talk about him incessantly every week. This week he said that WWE wanted Will Ospreay and they didn't get him and now they have him in Evans and they're just wasting him. I gotta be real - I'm not seeing what is so special about him. I think what hurts him and a lot of this so much is this WWE style of wrestling. It's not exciting and if something is exciting, they slow it down way too much. I can't believe that was Dragon Lee too. Dude is way different than the last time I watched him wrestle which was before he went to WWE. Old man AJ is kinda sad.

Cena vs Gunther was actually good and Cena is probably the best guy to work the WWE style and have it look good. I'm not sure if it's his frame or him just playing to the cheap seats and being a master at that, but he has it down so good and forcing everyone else into that style is awful. Gunther was great as usual. The last time I saw him may have been him tapping out at WrestleMania, which is now hilarious in hindsight. So really good match with THE DUMBEST FUCKING FINISH YOU COULD THINK OF.

I don't really give a shit if that's what Cena wanted. Sting WANTED to put over the Bucks in his last match and everyone said no way, you're fucking Sting, you're not going out on a loss. Sting and Cena's retirement is so different than everyone else's retirement in that we knew their's was coming and WHEN it was coming. We didn't know Danielson was going to lose for sure. Many of us thought it would happen, but we also saw ways it could have kept on going. Not only that, but Danielson was very tongue in cheek in saying he was done as a full time wrestler. I still think he's going to wrestle again. With Sting though, he had his retirement tour, he didn't do a lame ass heel turn, he wanted to do the traditional thing and go out with a loss and no one would let him because he's a legend and he's Sting. This is John fucking Cena, Mr. Never Give Up, the fucking shit is PRINTED ON HIS SOCKS, and this motherfucker gives up? For what? Why not pass out? Austin didn't give up against Bret. He passed out. Everyone wins. If Cena passes out it doesn't hurt Gunther. Cena tapping out is weak sauce. If everyone tells Cena no, do you think he's just going to take his ball and go home? Do you think he's going to go into business for himself and not kick out or he'll tap out and make the whole situation be awkward as hell? No way. And if there was no way to convince, no way to say no to him, then you don't let the dude tap out and give up. Come on now.

The video package at the end was also just...man...that's the best you got?

Whatever. It's sad that Cena is done, but he also looks like someone who has to put in way too much work now to produce a decent match and with the schedule he has it makes sense to call it a career and give himself no outs to return. Austin said it was hard at first and then after awhile it wasn't so bad. His body and his health were good enough to where he could return, but the desire to return and wrestle just wasn't in him anymore so I hope Cena's separation from wrestling isn't too bad and goes better than it did for many others. 

[Johnny Sorrow]

I loved that Cena finish like the child I never had and Craig hated it. Craig likes the Sol Snatcher and I think it looks phony as fuck and is everything awful about modern wrestling. I love this place. 
 

[TheVileOne]

I liked the finish, and I'm on board with Gunther winning, provided he gets positioned into being the new Lesnar over the course of the next 10 years.

It's weird seeing fans be all angry about this. The one time they get visibly peeved at Triple H, and it's over a correct decision that Cena likely campaigned for himself.

2025 has been Triple H's worst year yet since taking over as head of creative,  but the right call was made tonight.

I get wanting to see Cena win and ride off into the sunset, but I think Gunther being the guy to "retire" Goldberg and now Cena is great for Gunther and too irresistible to pass up. Throwback pro wrestler beats the GOAT sports entertainer. They also had Michael Cole talking about how the Professional Wrestler killed the greatest Sports Entertainer, and I kind of like that.

I think part of the reason Cena's heel turn failed is that it was his last year, and people naturally grew out of hating Cena. Likewise, Cena was no longer really Super Cena anymore and wasn't this overbearing Poochy-like presence in WWE. But WWE also failed to take the proper steps to map out and plan out the heel turn. It clearly wasn't a long-term game plan. Case in point, they were unwilling to drop all their Super Cena Farewell Tour merchandise plans for 2025. It also took way too long for Cena to finally cut a genuinely good heel promo like the Pipe Bomb. Most of his heel promos were wishy-washy garbage, much like his babyface promos after he dropped the Thuganomics elements.

Regardless, it's funny to me that after fans raged for years about Cena winning too much, the one time he wants to lose and give up, the fans are rejecting it. I like that Cena gave up. It cements that the legend of Cena is over for good. Gunther being the guy to do it is all the better.

[The Natural]

I didn't like John Cena losing his retirement match to Gunther. I fucking hated how. John Cena's gone by his never give up mantra for a long time but tapped out for the first time since 2004. If John Cena was going to lose, he should have passed out and not tapped out. Most shocking ending to a wrestling match since Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker at WrestleMania XXX. Man, the crowd was shocked then pissed.

Edited December 14, 2025 by The Natural

[The Natural]

6 hours ago, For Great Justice said:

The decision to tap Gunther out to Jey Uso is well on track to being a historical all timer of a dud.

Dude has the “if this were a real sport, he’s the best wrestler for real” gimmick, has Goldberg equity and now Cena equity, and you fed him to the tag dude that got Fandango hot

I was fucked off at the time and still am at that.

[The Natural]

Man this retirement run had some highs: Cena/AJ Styles the highest, the actual heel turn but mainly low lows: Cena/Cody at WrestleMania 41, The Rock not showing up there and Travis fucking Scott.

[hammerva]

3 hours ago, The Natural said:

Man this retirement run had some highs: Cena/AJ Styles the highest, the actual heel turn but mainly low lows: Cena/Cody at WrestleMania 41, The Rock not showing up there and Travis fucking Scott.

It is funny during this whole weekend how the WWE wants you to act like the Cena heel turn never happened.  most of the videos showed during last 4 months only.   here is the Rock doing a video thanking him and you would have no clue that he "owns his soul"  or that they were partners in crime

[NoFistsJustFlips]

7 hours ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

That match fucking ruled, and the finish was perfection. That slight grin on Cena's face right as he slowly tapped was some great shit, pal. When the loud smark contingent started chanting "You fucked up" at HHH I laughed out loud. Of all the things to get mad at him about, it's traditional booking that sends them over the edge.
Doesn't really matter since all that anger is going to get directed at Gunther on tv, and that's a gift.
 

This is an all time bad take. There's a larger argument here beyond just Cena losing his last match or Cena tapping out. It's an argument that WWE never give their audience a win. There's a reason a large number of people say Sting had one of the best retirement runs of all time. Sometimes you need the guy on the way out to win to give any meaning to the loses on the way out. WWE just non stop does losses on the way out. Every single big retirement ends the same way, and this one should have been the one they decided to let the fans win.

The ridiculous ticket prices to get in. The fact Cena was booked to take as many losses as he did in the lead up to this match. Gunther not needing this. The crowd not wanting this. Do we all remember when Triple H did hsi my friend Mark promo when Punk left. They had 4.5 million viewers then. People decided to leave after constantly getting trolled and made fun of by the people in charge. In a world where this is arguably your biggest attraction of all time who was thrown in a match with no story just a tournament... and he taps out to a dude that's already a made man. Gunter gains nothing from this. This doesnt build him to a title run. This doesnt get him over the hump. He's had two world title runs already and retire Goldberg as well.

When the end of your John Cena tribute show has the audience chanting Bullshit, You Fucked Up, and AEW (on the post show), well... you fucked up. How does any of that reaction move anything forward or have anyone remember this night fondly? WWE the company and especially the higher ups making the decisions dont care about fans, they care about dollars. Profits are record high. But so is apathy towards your product.

Cena should have won and got a giant celebration with the audience and the roster. His words putting over Gunther as great afterwards would have done as much for Gunther as any of the actual facts of the situation. It's the streak all over again. Brock didn't need it. Gunther didn't need this. WWE just always fills the heat balloon nonstop and lets it pop. rarely does a babyface ever get to pop it. And that's why this was such a tone deaf decision. But why should I focus on that? I should be marking out for the arena gate record they broke last night like Nick Khan & Triple H right?

[Niners Fan in CT]

So what is Cena the character saying in that finish to all of the kids and adults who believed in "Never Give Up"  ?   Never Give Up until you get older and you're not quite as good as you once were,  THEN you can give up?   For me....  Cena passing out to Gunther is the move.  Everybody gets what they want/need out of it. 

But it's whatever.  They did what they did.  Triple H deserved to get booed for how shit 2025 has been with him as the head of creative. 

[The Natural]

4 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

So what is Cena the character saying in that finish to all of the kids and adults who believed in "Never Give Up"  ?   Never Give Up until you get older and you're not quite as good as you once were,  THEN you can give up?   For me....  Cena passing out to Gunther is the move.  Everybody gets what they want/need out of it. 

But it's whatever.  They did what they did.  Triple H deserved to get booed for how shit 2025 has been with him as the head of creative. 

Yeah, if John Cena was to lose, it was by passing out and not tapping out. Goes all against "Never give up". I watched this live at the stupid o'clock in the morning. I was pissed at that finish and I'm still pissed off in the afternoon now.

Edited December 14, 2025 by The Natural

[The Natural]

9 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

It's just that Cena shouldn't tap. If you aren't gonna put him over, don't completely bury his gimmick making him GIVE UP. 

I can't believe I'm giving this bullshit this much consideration, really. He should just be happy he doesn't have to take the Saudi money anymore.

This.

[hammerva]

I assume that Cena will do plenty of interviews after this weekend off WWE window.   it would have been great if Cena talked to the crowd like they did for Goldberg.  But that whole after match thing felt like they were in a time crunch which is fucking stupid 

I dont know why it had to be on a YouTube post show but Cody's interview with Jackie was the kind of emotion that probably was needed at the end of this

Edited December 14, 2025 by hammerva

[The Natural]

21 minutes ago, hammerva said:

It is funny during this whole weekend how the WWE wants you to act like the Cena heel turn never happened.  most of the videos showed during last 4 months only.   here is the Rock doing a video thanking him and you would have no clue that he "owns his soul"  or that they were partners in crime

This.

[benj]

When John Cena wins the Rumble....

[Eivion]

I won't say there wasn't a wrong choice to be made here, but between Cena winning, passing out, or tapping out there really wasn't a wrong choice. Gunther can eat the loss and recover fine. Cena passing out still puts Gunther over. That said, Cena tapping out is the only ending that really gives Gunther anything to work with past this moment. Cena has been beaten before, nothing new there. Gunther is a beast but not something unseen in WWE. Tapping out John "Super" Cena is something no active wrestler can lay claim to. Its a unique credit for Gunther that puts him over more than any other result possibly could have. 

I also will say I don't really buy the Sting retirement comparisons at all and feel that is more AEW vs. WWE bs than anything else. Sting and Cena had very different careers and likely different goals with their retirements. Sting's AEW run in general was basically a makeup/apology in everyone's mind for how badly his WWE run went, and that includes his actual retirement. Cena was superman for over a decade to the point where it honestly pissed off a lot of dedicated smark types. He was a guy not known for putting over the wrestlers who those people actually thought were the best. Him doing that in his final match in the strongest way possible made sense.

Personal preference for me absolutely would have been Cena passing out, but I can't really fault the finish they went with at all.

Edited December 14, 2025 by Eivion