Divorce

[Craig H]

I didn't want to keep polluting the F' You! thread with my woes, so I thought maybe a separate post would be useful for all of us dealing with issues related to divorce or separation.

 

Beyond what I've talked about in the other thread, I've been most concerned with not being able to keep our home. My wife wants me to keep the home, but in looking at my finances, I would need an extra $500 to $600 a month to be able to eat and dress myself. I can try to cut corners in some spots, but I'm locked into a stupid 2 year contract with Directv, something I wish my wife would have urged me not to do, but whatever. At least with that, I could probably drop down to a lower package with no premium channels and rely heavily on Netflix. I'm also stuck with a stupid cell phone contract for another year. So is it possible to get a lower home payment even if the amount of equity in the home isn't that much. We just refi'd a couple years ago. Things would also be much better without any credit card debt. I've seen some people have a ton of debt and I have about $9000 in debt that I'll probably be stuck with in a divorce since the card is in my name only, except $2000 of the debt is due to repairs on her car, another $1000 can be attributed to our anniversary in Chicago, which she was more than happy to take part in only to then shatter my world a couple months later where she would tell me she's been wanting a split for further back than our anniversary.

 

I basically need some advice on cutting costs because I doubt my employer will just bump my pay by $20,000 so I get paid what I should be paid. I just have to figure out a way to lower my mortgage, student loan, credit card, cable/internet, and cell phone payments. If I can do that, I can survive. I think.

[jstout]

Everyone's gonna scoff their asses off at this, and it is the coward's way out, but do not discount the power of bankruptcy. $1,500-$2,000 to a lawyer to do the paperwork equals no more home, no more credit card debts, no more DirectTV contract, no more cell phone contract. Basically, the only thing you won't be able to lose (and maybe your state's laws are different) are student loans.

 

The only disadvantage is you can kiss future homeownership and credit cards goodbye for 7-10 years. But you should free up so much cash you shouldn't need credit cards - you'll be able to keep a stash of money set back for the bad things in life like expensive car repairs. You'll also have to pay cash for cars. It's a life changer, no doubt about it, but it's not as bad as some people will let on.

 

If that's not an option, and I don't blame you, for lots of people it's not, tell your wife you simply don't want the home. Especiially since it sounds like you don't want it. Don't let her bully you into keeping a $600 expense you don't want. You'll have to put it up for sale, and probably pay for it in the interim, but hopefully the housing market in your area's not in the complete shitter and you can get what you have in it out of it. You can also negotiate with the people who hold your mortgage to take less money to pay it off. Tell them to take X or face you giving up on the house and letting it go in foreclosure. If you do let it foreclose and both of your names are on the house, she'll have to pay half of whatever debt is left over after the house is sold by the lending agency.

 

The mortgage/student loan/credit card people will  work with you on your debt, to an extent. Expect that to help a little, but not be the thing that puts you over the top.

 

Boy, could I tell a story. Quote from my attorney after my latest alimony hearing: "I've never seen anyone, and I mean anyone, pay as much alimony as you do relative to what you make. And I've represented doctors and lawyers and judges." And I'll be paying it for the rest of my life. 

[Reggie20x6]

Step 1: Tell DirecTV to put your account on hold because you're moving.

Step 2: Don't move.

Step 3: Continue to push back your account hold. Tell them you're living in a hotel. Tell them you're living at a family member's house. Anything works - just don't forget the date when they're going to try to charge you (even if you forget and they charge you, you can still get them to remove the charges).

 

 

I have had DirecTV on hold since July. Haven't paid them a dime. Sure, I wish I actually lived somewhere that I could use it, but I've still avoided any charges from them.

[Chaos]

I haven't vetted this too far, but Mashable had this article about cutting cell cost. Obviously, this might not be possible if you're still stuck on a contract:

 

http://mashable.com/2013/12/15/saved-150-month-wireless-bill/

[Reggie20x6]

I don't know what your current internet costs, but you can get a Clear Stick from Best Buy. It's $50 a month. I got that back in August, when we were living at a house that only had wired internet (crazy). You just plug it in and as long as you're in a relatively clear area (tree-wise) you're good to go.

 

Or, alternatively, call your current internet provider and tell them that you're shopping around for a new provider because of their current costs. Typically, someone will offer you a discount to keep you. Just keep saying "retention" or "supervisor" if you land at someone's desk who isn't motivated or is unable to offer you a discount. I did the same thing with DirecTV when trying to get them to remove a charge - the first woman said there was nothing she could do, and I kept asking for a supervisor. She transferred me, and the new person removed my charge and pushed my hold date back again almost immediately.

[Craig H]

Regarding my home, I don't want to lose it. I want to keep it. For me and for my daughter. 

 

EDIT: Just to add to that, I guess in the interest of full disclosure, my mortgage (including insurance and taxes) is $1085 a month for a home that is 2000+ square feet in a safe, quiet neighborhood, and that doesn't include the finished basement.

[Reggie20x6]

What would your comfort level be with subletting the basement to someone? Not sure if you've got a full bathroom down there or what, but that could be an option, as listings like that always go quickly on Craigslist, etc.

 

You can open it up to females-only, if you're not comfortable with having a male in the house with your daughter, but at $300-$600/month (depending on what you've got in the basement) - that's an easy way to get through a tough spot. 

[Craig H]

I would do that, but it doesn't have egress windows and there's only one way to get out. Plus, there's no plumbing down there for a toilet and/or shower.

 

I've even thought about asking my mom to move in, which was my wife's plan when we weren't talking about divorce, just because she's getting older and is the best babysitter for our daughter.

[Tabe]

Some thoughts:

 

1) Foreclosure doesn't necessarily mean you have to pay any remaining debt after the home's sale.  Depends on the laws in your state.  Lots of states let you off the hook after the foreclosure sale.  In the rest of the states, a lot of times the bank simply doesn't go after that remaining debt.  Since you're not looking to walk, this obviously doesn't really apply to you.

 

2) If your interest rate is 5% or higher, refi again.  Mortgage rates have gone up since I refi'ed last year but are still around 4.55%.

 

3) Cancel DirecTV anyway.  Pay the termination fee.  Or do the "hold" thing described above.

 

4) Ditto the cell phone contract.

[Burgundy LaRue]

My first advice was going to be drop your satellite service, but if you're in a 2-year contract for that, then just go down to the lowest price point possible or pay the cancellation penalty, whatever is cheaper.

 

You may need to give up Netflix for a while.  It's only a couple of hundred dollars every year, but that can go toward credit card payments.

 

Dave Ramsey may get scoffed at because of the Christian-based foundation on which he gives advice, but he does have good ideas suited for anyone---

 

1.) Save up a $1000 emergency fund.  This should happen in a couple of weeks if you can.  Roll up your spare change if needed. Put it in a savings account.

2.) Sell whatever you can that you don't need.  Put that money toward credit card debt.

3.) Cut all extra spending, funnel that to credit card payments.

4.) Can you find a part-time job?  Do you have a talent that can be turned into a weekend gig?  Start doing it for extra cash for debt payment.

5.) Once your credit cards are paid off, build your emergency fund to cover 3 - 6 months of your expenses.

6.) Your emergency fund is set, now move to making multiple payments on your house.  Divide your monthly mortgage by 12.  Pay 1/12 or 1/6 of that on top of your mortgage every month.  You'll wind up paying 13 or 14 payments every year, which means you pay off your house a few years early.

7.) Sock away as much income as possible in long-term investing/retirement.

 

One thing Ramsey doesn't cover that sometimes gets overlooked--disposable goods (food, toiletries, etc.) should be purchased as cheaply as possible.  Dollar stores are your friends.  Cut back on the fancy stuff and stick to all basics.  You can also purchase some of your foodstuffs there.  You have to be a bit careful with this, because it's not always a good buy and some of that stuff comes from other places (not saying that canned strawberries from Poland aren't edible, they could be, but I'm not trying to find out) but there are bargains to be had.  Bread, for example, tends to be cheaper because it's a few days removed from expiration.  Freeze the extra and keep it moving.  Use coupons, and so on. 

 

Dollar store living can be fun with the right mindset.

 

[Craig H]

I like Dave Ramsey and have his book. I actually really recommend it to anyone who finds themselves in a money crunch.

 

I looked at my finances again and one thing I didn't pay attention to is how much I have going into my 401k each pay period. That's an extra $90 or so every two weeks. I'll have to look into putting Directv on hold and see how long I can put that off. If I can put that off for awhile and just rely on a Chromecast, then I can save myself $70 to $80 a month. Dropping Spotify is another extra $10 a month.

 

As for the credit card issue, if my wife does stick around until the end of her school year and decides to leave after that, it gives me 5 months to pay off two of my cards, which is doable. That would be another $100 in my pocket each month for food or to put towards the other card which is 0% interest until this time next year.

 

I'm fortunate enough to have a Sams Club membership and an Aldi in town, so that should save on food.

 

I'll definitely need to look over Dave Ramsey's book tonight. I have pretty good credit now and don't want to ruin that with bankruptcy, so I'll see if I can go that Dave Ramsey route for now. Then at some point, I need to start looking at what my options are for taking over the home. My wife just wants me to have it and I want it too. In looking online though, that usually means a buyout of some sort.

 

I still don't understand any of this. For those of you who have gone through this before, I really admire you. I don't know how you did it.

[J.T.]

Damn, man.  I am sorry to hear about what's going down, Craig.

 

I hate to be an asshole about it but I was in a similar situation when I got divorced.  My ex wanted to keep the house, but I was not going to pay half of the mortgage of a house I wasn't living in addition to paying child support.

 

If you wife doesn't want to pay spousal support to cover half of the mortgage or forfeit child support so that you can cover the mortgage on your own, then you guys really do need to sell the house so that you both don't take a credit bloodbath.  Your debt ratio is too high to support a mortgage on your own, even if you cut a few corners on your various and sundries

 

The one thing you both need to learn is that with or without the house, your kid's life will be forever altered anyway and that you both need to stay financially solvent to support the child.  Sell the house, split the profit down the middle, and use the cash to rebuild your lives.

[Bustronaut]

Honestly keeping the house might be overly traumatic for the kid (and you) anyway.

[glfpunk]

On the credit card debt, it doesn't really matter that the card is in your name.  You guys are married.  You should definitely be able to walk away with you and your wife splitting the debt.  If you feel it's worth the battle.  I don't know if you guys have talked about it and she's trying to not be a part of that debt or what but she should be and that's something definitely doable in the divorce. 

 

I know you really want to keep the house and for good reason it sounds like as it's not a ridiculous mortgage and it's a large enough house in a good neighborhood but still like has been said already, don't make it too much of a strain and don't break yourself trying to do it. 

 

Even if you have to get rid of the house, you're a fairly young guy and you haven't reached your earning potential.  You're going to continue to increase your income as time goes on and hopefully decrease your debt(hopefully to zero) so another ideal home in the not so distant future for you and your daughter doesn't sound like something unattainable for you. 

[Craig H]

I don't even understand how child support works. All I know is that it seems like the mom wins out almost all of the time. My wife and I practically make the same amount of money, neither of us can afford a divorce attorney since the costs for one seem astronomically high, and we'll probably be splitting the time with our daughter where she has my daughter one week and then I have her the next week. I've also never heard of an ex having to help with mortgage payments if they don't live in the home. I take it that isn't the case if we refinance so the house is in my name only.

[Craig H]

Good comments on not keeping the house. All are things for me to keep in mind.

[RIPPA]

Well obviously they are different laws in different states regarding divorce, child support, etc... so obviously you would need to look into that.

 

No matter how amicable things might be - be prepared to have to hire a lawyer.

 

My brother in law and... well I guess now ex-sister-in-law just finished their divorce. They were trying to work everything out amicably but the wife (I am refraining from using bad words) started talking to all her girlfriends and they were all like "GIRL YOU CAN GET SO MUCH MORE OUT OF HIM!!!!" and suddenly she hired a very cut throat lawyer who tried to take him for everything. My brother in law had to borrow money from my father in law to deal with it all.

 

And he still gave up A LOT because he caved on a lot of issues for the sake of my nephew. (Now of course they have some unique circumstances in their case - specifically she is from Japan and he was her sponsor for her coming to the states. Long story short - make sure to use a condom no matter how many times the female says "she can't get pregnant")

 

Not saying this will happen to you - but as you are starting to consider all the things you will need to spend money on that might be one of them. Or even having to pay for an arbitrator just to have a neutral party who is doing all the heavy-lifting for you.

 

And sadly - as JT and Mike have both touched on - your daughter is going to be effected in someway somehow. My nephew - who is only 6 - already knows that he can play Mommy off of Daddy (and vice versa) because of the nature of shuttling between houses, etc...

[Burgundy LaRue]

If you have joint custody, some states don't require child support to be paid.  I think. 

 

You'll need some sort of legal counsel.  Do you qualify for free legal aide?  They may be able to give you basic advice.

 

Rippa is right.  Far be it from me to speak badly of the female species, but if we make it up in our minds to make your life a living nightmare--Heaven help you.  And that could happen here.  It's a divorce, and, to be blunt, it wouldn't be happening if things were great between the two of you.  Hire some kind of legal help.

[Craig H]

Honestly though, things are good and friendly between us. She even tearfully asked me if I went for a beer with my friend to get divorce lawyer advice, which is weird because she's the one heading down this path. She was legit sad, almost like she didn't want that to be a reality. That's another reason why this is so fucked up. It's almost like she doesn't know what she wants, but she's stubbornly heading down the most painful path. I think if we didn't get married, but still had our daughter, there wouldn't be any issues. Or I'm just deluding myself.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

Honestly though, things are good and friendly between us. She even tearfully asked me if I went for a beer with my friend to get divorce lawyer advice, which is weird because she's the one heading down this path. She was legit sad, almost like she didn't want that to be a reality. That's another reason why this is so fucked up. It's almost like she doesn't know what she wants, but she's stubbornly heading down the most painful path. I think if we didn't get married, but still had our daughter, there wouldn't be any issues. Or I'm just deluding myself.

Is it still too late?

[Craig H]

I'm sure it is. She's pretty well set in her ways.

[Bustronaut]

Couples therapy perhaps?  Cheaper than a lawyer

[BrianS81177]

First of all, my sympathies. I've been through a divorce (though my ex and I didn't have kids or own a home so it was pretty cut and dry) and I know how much it sucks.

 

Regarding the contracts: my suggestion is to find out how much the cancellation fees are, then add up how much the monthly payments will be if you keep it. It might be more expensive for you long-term to keep paying. Worse comes to worse, you can tell them to either lower your price or you'll pay their fee then switch to their competitor (even if you have no plans to do so). 

 

If you need a phone after cancelling the current one, look into Walmart's Straight Talk. I know a couple people that have it, and they're satisfied with it.

[Craig H]

Couples therapy perhaps? Cheaper than a lawyer

We did that in the early summer. In fact, things had been going really well. We had a great anniversary in Chicago and vacation at the lake. I thought all of our problems were behind us. We were just doing really well.

And then in September, she fucked up sending a naked picture of herself to a dude she dated in college who is now married and lives in South Carolina. It wound up on her Facebook wall by accident and I contacted her immediately to take it down. It was only up for a few seconds, but I figured out what happened. She meant to send it via Facebook private message, which is retarded.

Fuck my life.

[Antacular]

Why would you even want to be with her after that?