NJPW G1 Climax XXXV.

[Eivion]

I mean the last guy who was star overnight is basically Nakamura. It was pretty harsh journey for basically everyone else. In general though the argument of Takeshita over a homegrowns just doesn't really work when a guy like EVIL is getting cheered more. It's fine if you just like Takeshita more, but let's not pretend it isn't just personal bias and interest opposed to what would actually be good for NJPW given the Japanese audience has seemingly made their choice.

[Niners Fan in CT]

EVIL was champion already and NJPW was in the gutter during his reign.  Is that all his fault? Certainly not but what evidence is there that this time would be different? 

[dorfus malorfus]

1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Ah yes,  it's only the look.  That's all Takeshita has.  He's certainly not one of the top 5 best wrestlers on the planet. What was I thinking. 

I've criticized his (shitty) overblown wanky style of wrestling twice in this thread already, including in the post you're responding to. Even if I liked that kind of garbage it's clearly not what the New Japan fans want after nearly a decade of having post-Okada/Omega "epics" shoved down their throats. 

[dorfus malorfus]

An enlightening anecdote: Yuma Anzai could be the answer to all of New Japan's (many embarrassing) problems right now except he continually refused Nagata's desperate attempts to lure him into the NJ dojo. Instead he went to All Japan, a company where they push their own guys + young guys. They made him their ace and Triple Crown Champion within his first year. He had the foresight not to come within a hundred yards of Gedo's cesspit, even with a guy as respected as Yuji Nagata actively and transparently scouting him. I'm sure New Japan is headhunting Anzai and Miyahara and Kaito Kiyomiya and OZAWA these days, the same way they headhunted Takeshita (and Ibushi, and Shingo, and Sanada), because they're too lazy and short-sighted to actually build anyone themselves and would rather have their pick of talent already protected and developed elsewhere. Hopefully Anzai's example isn't lost on other aspiring wrestlers in Japan. 

Edited August 18 by dorfus malorfus

[Lawful Metal]

Watched the semifinals and finals yesterday. Baffled they had EVIL win like they did. Fale didn’t even hit or tease tur Bad Luck Fall in the final. Felt like a good time to crown Tsuji. Now Tsuji looks like a push heavy guy who can’t win the big one. And of the young guys, he’s still my favorite. It’s a shame. Wasn’t crazy about the B Block final - honestly, didn’t think ZSJ should’ve been it, and I thought politically Takeshita should win either. I love Takeshita and he’s one of my favorites, but he’s an outsider. I think regardless of how great he is, there’s an Ibushi sized cloud over him until he signs full time. Also, post championship ZSJ seems almost watered down with the hurty submission stuff. Winning striking battles and the Zack driver ain’t it for me. Match was still great, and the sheer drop super raging fire looked absolutely disgusting, and the right guy won, but with EVIL in the final it was kinda weird. 

Final was still kinda awesome, especially with all the early shenanigans with the HOT getting removed (ZSJ getting Narita out with the ankle lock was choice), but it really turned up when EVIL fired up and the crowd got with him. You almost forget EVIL can go sometimes. Honestly thought they might actually go forward with it. Glad Takeshita won, but not sure really on the direction forward. 

I wonder if Gabe was supposed to win. 

When’s Goto back?

[Curt McGirt]

Just to throw some gas on the fire of all this armchair quarterbacking

[dorfus malorfus]

Lmao that is tremendous. I wonder if guys like Yuki Ino are suddenly liquidating their paychecks on bullshit and excusing it like "it's okay honey, next year I'll just win the G1."

[Niners Fan in CT]

Lowest attendance in ten years.  But the crowds love EVIL !!! Believe me!!!   Yeah, ok.  They didn't show up. 

[dorfus malorfus]

43 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Lowest attendance in ten years.  But the crowds love EVIL !!! Believe me!!!   Yeah, ok.  They didn't show up. 

Maybe they didn't show up because the other guy in the match was the guy they booed and are bitching about on X. 

[Horangi]

Takeshita was in that main event too, but he's clearly the best wrestler in the planet and should be the ace of the company despite his big G1 win being the lowest drawing G1 attendance in a decade (outside of COVID).

In all fairness and sarcasm aside, New Japan has no draws outside of maybe Goto & Hiromu (and even after Dontaku, numbers from comparable shows such as Dominion have been down). I know people want to blame EVIL, but I think there are other factors on why shows aren't drawing before pointing the finger at either of the two guys in the final. Majority of the major draws from the previous decade are gone including someone we all thought would be a lifer in Naito, booking hasn't done anyone any favors (I am a fan, but I will admit NJPW is VERY stale) & they are desperately looking for a new star, and economical issues play a part in some of this too. 

I don't think anyone is saying EVIL is a draw, but at the same time, I don't think it matters who else was in that final because the number wasn't ever going to be any better. It doesn't change the fact that the people who were there (and apparently the online reaction as well) were behind EVIL. Maybe its just the diehards and doesn't translate into ticket sales, and this isn't a new thing either - EVIL has consistently been popular since his LiJ days which makes me think the bad houses are influenced by bigger factors (again I want to make it clear, I am not saying HoT are huge draws and they play no part in this issue, but to me its their booking than the guys themselves). 

[Niners Fan in CT]

Uhh the entire tournament was the lowest drawing in ten years.  That includes the block that EVIL was dominating.  Nice try gentlemen. 

[Horangi]

58 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Uhh the entire tournament was the lowest drawing in ten years.  That includes the block that EVIL was dominating.  Nice try gentlemen. 

Which supports my point - there's a bigger issue than just EVIL = BAD. 

So tell me, who is the draw? EVIL isn't, Takeshita isn't, Zack isn't, Reiwa 3 aren't yet. 

I get there is nothing anyone can say that will change your mind on EVIL, which is totally fine. The argument remains in that match EVIL was the one the crowd at Ariake wanted to win. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

I'm not saying anyone is a draw,  I'm saying that Takeshita going over EVIL doesn't matter the way you two are describing it.  You're acting like Takeshita was actively booed or something.  He had quite a bit of support.  Even if it takes a little while for the detractors to warm up to him, I think that's fine.  We've seen EVIL with the title before and it wasn't pretty. 

[Horangi]

I think then maybe I am not making my point clearly, which I do apologise for. I am not saying that EVIL should have even won, my points were that a) he is popular with the domestic crowd and that this was the reason why he was in the final to begin with despite the meltdowns on X, Reddit etc from the foreign audiences, and b) he was really bloody good in that match (and that is purely my opinion which I know you 100% disagree with). Unfortunately it isn't translating into bigger houses which is mostly the fault of horrid booking since the pandemic. I even said that I think Takeshita is a generational talent that can transcend the negativity of him not being a traditional dojo New Japan guy from the fanbase like Ibushi & Shingo have, he just hasn't done it yet. 

I think a big "what if" is how would EVIL's run have gone down in a non-pandemic setting back in 2020. We look at what happened and say it probably would have been horrid, but I think a Dominion 2020 newly turned heel EVIL vs a white hot Naito as champ would have been very intriguing. I still think an EVIL title run is plausible, but would need some tweaks to work in a 2025 sense. Maybe a babyface veteran EVIL run down the line? 

[Niners Fan in CT]

I think all of that is fair.  I'm not entirely blaming EVIL for anything.  I've seen him have some good matches,  I even thought he was solid in the match vs. Takeshita after everyone was ejected.  I'm not putting the blame squarely on him for how poor attendance has been.  Do I think his run on top was successful?  No, but I don't think Gedo did him any favors and I still don't think Gedo is doing him or anyone favors.  I think Gedo's booking the last 5 years has mostly sucked. 

[Evil Otto]

42 minutes ago, Horangi said:

I think then maybe I am not making my point clearly, which I do apologise for. I am not saying that EVIL should have even won, my points were that a) he is popular with the domestic crowd and that this was the reason why he was in the final to begin with despite the meltdowns on X, Reddit etc from the foreign audiences, and b) he was really bloody good in that match (and that is purely my opinion which I know you 100% disagree with). Unfortunately it isn't translating into bigger houses which is mostly the fault of horrid booking since the pandemic. I even said that I think Takeshita is a generational talent that can transcend the negativity of him not being a traditional dojo New Japan guy from the fanbase like Ibushi & Shingo have, he just hasn't done it yet. 

I agree, that was actually a great G1 Final.  I have zero problem with some people cheering for EVIL during that match, as HoT has their fans.  The group is all over New Japan cards, has cool merch, makes kooky fashion choices, etc;  some fans go for that, and it's understandable.  Not my thing, but that's how pro wrestling works.  Takeshita is an outsider to some, and that's okay too.  If you don't like it, from a kayfabe/wrestler's perspective, then beat him.  It all comes down to how they book it.  That being said, the booking is iffy.  But CAN it be booked well?  Sure.  

EVIL is a good, but not great, wrestler who can be in great matches when he steps it up and all the bullshit is off the table, and I think the HoT minions being taken away (having Zack take Narita away was a particularly nice and respectful touch) for the final quarter or so was to show, definitively, that he has still has in-ring value.  Ren Narita also showed that as well during the tournament.  I don't know if they will follow up on it, but there was clearly some intention behind it, especially in the final.  

Wow, shocker:  some New Japan fans don't like how New Japan books.  I'm stunned.  

All in all, I felt like this G1 was fine for what it was, a promotion in the middle of a transition period.  They went away from the G1 winner automatically goes to Wrestle Kingdom stipulation last year, and that was good.  They saw a star in Takeshita and negotiated a deal where he could work more for them, also good.  Uemura, Oiwa, tremendous showing for both of them, I'd 100% go with them (along with Tsuji) for future main eventers, which should be the story of next year's G1.; in other words, they need to start that story as soon as possible.  Callum and Drilla's stock went up significantly.  Gabe being out really messed things up, so who knows where they'll go with him next.  Umino has improved, but needs to take a step back and/or hopefully go heel, something needs to change.  Random thoughts here, but it's not all gloom and doom, although it will require some serious extra attention to get them though this next period.  

[dorfus malorfus]

Evil has been holding it down since he became the first guy to beat Okada in a year at the 2017 G1. Passing him over the next year in favour of old Tanahashi and outsider Kota is Where The Troubles Began. Evil over Omega at WK 2018 would have set him up at the heir apparent to the Okada and Naito throne.

[username]

I do think the big question mark going forward is how present Takeshita is gonna be in NJPW. If he makes it to every tour somehow and is there regularly I think the outsider stigma will probably fade to a degree. If he only shows up every so often and only for the final show of the tour then it probably won't matter how good he performs.

[Teflon Turtle]

Usually I don't like talk of ratings or who draws, but I'll wade in a little bit. This is the 1st G1 without Naito on the roster, only the second without Okada in a very long time. Ain't no way was New Japan going to magically do pre-pandemic numbers under those circumstances. But I have to figure those of you discussing attendance numbers have seen the same information posted to Reddit that I did: the 2022 and 2023 G1s that had many of the "draws" on the roster still present did roughly half the total attendance as the 2018 and 2019 tournaments. Is some of that due to booking decisions New Japan has made (or not made)? Sure, probably. Is some of it due to the fact that admission to venues was capped and fans had to watch in silence for two years during the pandemic, well after Western crowds were able to return at fuller capacity (and volume)? Yep, probably. People moved on and didn't come back. There are also economic factors, which I see discussed elsewhere all the time and yet it never seems to sink in. See my previous statement: moved on, didn't come back, possibly couldn't afford to. I have a hard time believing that New Japan lost about 50% of their domestic audience due to booking alone. It's not as though other promotions have been lapping New Japan in terms of attendance numbers. Some shows, yes. Cumulatively, not yet. I'm not sure the business is fantastic for anybody over there right now.

Now, that said: unless the NJPW stound mixing is really that terrible, something I've noticed when watching the occasional matches from other promotions seems to be that New Japan crowds don't get as hot or aren't as enthusiastic as other crowds any longer. I am not sure what to attribute that to - of course, there's that "booking" again, but it feels like something a bit harder to grasp. I watched Jun Kasai's matches with El Desperado recently. There sure seems to be some hardcore Kasai fans in Japan that are willing to plunk down money to see him, and will make their voices heard during the matches, for example. I don't hear that in New Japan as much. A demographics thing, maybe? The last really vociferous New Japan crowd I can recall was the audience for the Tsuji/Kidd match at New Beginning in Osaka where the fans chanted "Shin Nihon!" Even when the promotion was hot pre-pandemic, I cannot recall "Shin Nihon" chants happening regularly. I'm not saying push Gabe Kidd to the moon. I am saying that the crowds seem to be responding to a mixture of the hard-hitting Strong Style types of old, combined with the less flashy but fundamentally sound stuff that Yuya and Oiwa are doing. New Japan has to book such wrestlers effectively, but it's also on the wrestlers to execute and make sure what they're doing gets passionate reactions from the crowd.

Speaking of crowd reactions, we can get into what happened with EVIL and Takeshita. I feel like now is a good time to offer the reminder that New Japan fans often seem to boo a wrestler's conduct more than the wrestler themselves. Remember when Naito was still able to spit on people? Depending on who he was up against and where the show was happening, crowds that had chanted Naito's name minutes earlier would jeer that action, and go right back to cheering Naito as the match progressed. I think to a degree, that is what we see with EVIL and HoT. The fans are booing the conduct, and are playing along. Nothing to do with whether EVIL himself is a draw or is a bad wrestler (he isn't, it's just that most of his matches are stylistically not what fans would want from him under ideal circumstances). The fans started to cheer him and react positively when he bashed Takeshita with hard strikes and stopped cheating. They bit on every one of his finisher attempts. If the fans there live truly hated him and he was getting the proverbial X-Pac heat, you wouldn't have heard a bunch of fans chant "EEEV-" and get cut off when Takeshita countered. You'd have more likely heard crickets, or perhaps sighs of resignation.

It's a separate conversation whether those are the reactions that New Japan's bookers anticipated. I felt that maybe they thought putting EVIL in there against Takeshita was the best chance they had at getting Take some acceptance + trying to make sure the fans eventually got behind him in the match. That seems to have backfired on them a bit. Now they need to think about A) whether Takeshita succeeds in his title challenge and B) since the obvious thing would be for one of the younger guys to take the title back from him on New Japan's behalf should he win it, which member of the current generation would get the most mileage out of that for them?

 

 

Edited August 19 by Teflon Turtle

[Ace]

On 8/17/2025 at 9:27 PM, Niners Fan in CT said:

EVIL was champion already and NJPW was in the gutter during his reign. 

A worldwide pandemic might have something to do with that.

 

[The Natural]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F1X-ui6UVM8

Dave Meltzer and Bryan Alvarez on NJPW. The video is rightly titled "NJPW is struggling. Their booking doesn't help|"

[dorfus malorfus]

I appreciate truth-teller Dave but maybe rather than just conceding to New Japan's failure he could acknowledge the existence of one or any number of other Japanese wrestling promotions, nearly all of whom have a better overall product than New Japan these days. He used to at least admit he knew Kento Miyahara existed but now he can't be bothered to discuss AJPW unless his boy Harry Smith is getting the Triple Crown.

[The Natural]

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/PEJybUwaL6A

More on House of Torture by Dave Meltzer.

[Evil Otto]

Honest question:  who posting here actually watched this tournament, or least the final matches?  It feels like some of you just popped in here at the very end to make sweeping general statements about a promotion you actually don't watch, and for that matter, clearly don't like.   

Which you are free to do, mind you, but, I don't know, just felt the need to vent a little.  Carry on.  

[The Natural]

1 hour ago, Evil Otto said:

Honest question:  who posting here actually watched this tournament, or least the final matches?  It feels like some of you just popped in here at the very end to make sweeping general statements about a promotion you actually don't watch, and for that matter, clearly don't like.   

Which you are free to do, mind you, but, I don't know, just felt the need to vent a little.  Carry on.  

I don't think it's don't like the promotion, it's frustration with the booking. You want it to do well and it's annoying when otherwise. Least for me.

Edited August 25 by The Natural