RIP Sabu.

[Curt McGirt]

Just want to say (and I probably shouldn't bring this conversation up again when we're just getting away from it, BUT...):

Having a problem with people using kratom or anything else if they wrestle, just because either you don't, or from some misguided moral opinion, is the most misunderstanding and unfair shit in the world. Nobody should be looked down upon for using any drug, for any reason they want or need to.

I have the feeling Sabu would want me to say that, so I am. 

Edited May 15 by Curt McGirt

[username]

I mean I know I shouldn't respond but there is a world of difference between using a drug, and using a drug while at work where others depend on you for their own safety. Don't know if that has anything to do with Sabu's last match but he did have a very infamous one with a Sandman where Sandman was out of his mind on acid, and I am comfortable saying that was a pretty bad idea.

[The Natural]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2pt1KSF5z-g

Sabu tribute on AEW Dynamite tonight. Felt for Taz.

[Curt McGirt]

21 minutes ago, username said:

I mean I know I shouldn't respond but there is a world of difference between using a drug, and using a drug while at work where others depend on you for their own safety. Don't know if that has anything to do with Sabu's last match but he did have a very infamous one with a Sandman where Sandman was out of his mind on acid, and I am comfortable saying that was a pretty bad idea.

You've got a point, but this raises the question of consent. If I know I'm gonna work with someone who might be out of their mind of whatever substance, that's on me. If I don't know, yet believe they could be, I can either ask them if they are, or just not work with them. Workers -- especially in this profession -- should do their due diligence. (Which is of course easy for me to say considering I'm not a worker but *shrug* hey.) In any case, my message is basically, don't get down on people for using drugs. It's a hard world. We all need support, not critique. 

EDIT: And this definitely isn't advocating people doing anything to harm each other. If you're on drugs, then tell somebody if you're working with them. Drug use shouldn't be conceiled, but shouldn't be scorned either. 

Fuck, writing and rewriting this has felt like a college course. Did Sabu ever have a match with Samoa Joe?

Edited May 15 by Curt McGirt

[The Natural]

38 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Did Sabu ever have a match with Samoa Joe?

Yes. TNA Lockdown 2006.

[Cobra Commander]

watching Sabu/RVD vs Hayabusa/Shinzaki ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O3xp2lkhxk ) and guessing the "don't stand on your seats" notice is because Hara Arena was a bit of a dump and you risked breaking seats standing on them

although i'm guessing "Sabu keeps Hayabusa/Shinzaki on the mat" was NOT what some people wanted to see from this match in 1998... some parts of this probably age well, and some parts were very "of 1998"

Edited May 15 by Cobra Commander

[paragon11]

16 hours ago, Ziggy said:

Did you think Public Enemy seemed out of place in WCW. WCW had alot of teams that were good at brawling and just throwing hands that it help hide whatever they lacked. If Sabu had stuck around,  i doubt they would have been able to rely on the Tables as much in WCW which also helped. When they got completely exposed but im sure most of that had more to do with WWE not wanting them to get over. You would thing they would have done better stylistically in 99 WWF because it's not like you had to be anywhere close to a decent work or even had to go 10 minutes or longer unless you were headlining 

It's a good question, but I don't think they were out of place.  WCW had a LOT of tag teams when they debuted and thru 96 (Harlem Heat, Nasty Boys, Blue Bloods, Steiners, Road Warriors, Faces of Fear) and they could work the different styles (at least Rocco could, Grunge not so much)

Sabu worked all of 7 matches in WCW (Disco, Alex Wright, JL x2, Kanyon, Tenta and an unknown opponent per Cagematch).  But I can't imagine many of the bigger names would have been able to work well with Sabu's style, which then relegates him to Cruiserweight and TV Title status at best?  Which no doubt would give us some great matches, but limits his ceiling.   

[Pete]

On 5/14/2025 at 6:45 AM, zendragon said:

I also think he dodged a bullet on turning down that Sultan gimmick, that shit went nowhere fast. Vince couldn't "get" Vader no way he was getting Sabu.

I think Sabu said in Sheik's book that he regretted turning down the Sultan deal. Sure, he wouldn't have been SABU but he also left a bunch of money on the table... he was set in his uncle's ways about never compromising, and it cost him a big contract here.

14 hours ago, Execproducer said:

I watched Terry Brunk-Richie Magnet from 86 in Hawaii. Seeing Sabu wrestle as an early 80's white-meat babyface was certainly something. They go to a draw in a 'scientific match'. I was thinking about two minutes in that he was giving me Rick Martel vibes and about two minutes later one of the announcers had the same opinion. I doubt he would ever been as good in that role as Martel was but he certainly could have been in a Tom Zenk or Steve Olsonoski spot. But then we wouldn't have the gift of Sabu.

He could've always been a Mutoh/Muta-style character, no? Have Terry SR work normal matches and his alter ego Sabu do all the crazy shit.

[RazorbladeKiss87]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

I think Sabu said in Sheik's book that he regretted turning down the Sultan deal. Sure, he wouldn't have been SABU but he also left a bunch of money on the table... he was set in his uncle's ways about never compromising, and it cost him a big contract here.

 

Were they offering guaranteed contracts at that point in WWF? I'd imagine Sabu as The Sultan wouldn't work a whole lot better than Rikishi as The Sultan and he'd kill the Sabu mystique with the newsletter (ECW mutants) fans who bought into it so I don't know that he'd have benefitted like he might have thought. It's hard to say though. 

[WebConn89]

36 minutes ago, RazorbladeKiss87 said:

Were they offering guaranteed contracts at that point in WWF? I'd imagine Sabu as The Sultan wouldn't work a whole lot better than Rikishi as The Sultan and he'd kill the Sabu mystique with the newsletter (ECW mutants) fans who bought into it so I don't know that he'd have benefitted like he might have thought. It's hard to say though. 

Marc Mero got the first guaranteed contract in March of 96. I don’t know when The Sultan showed up I know The Sultan was at Wrestlemania 13 in March of 97. So Sabu would have been under a guaranteed contract but sure he shows up and does all his Sabu stuff but eventually that was all gonna get reigned in and he becomes a watered down verision of Sabu. I agree with  you yeah he left money on the table but his career longevity would have suffered. When The Sultan ran its course and Sabu returned to ECW they would have rode his ass so hard who knows if he’d have recovered. 
 

Also speaking on the WCW cup of coffee and showing up on Raw in 97 during the “ECW Invasion” added to the mystic. He showed up on National TV dove through a table or fell off the R then was gone. Sabu’s greatest asset may have also been his biggest detriment, it wasn’t necessarily as much about the money as it was about the craft. 

[Technico Support]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

I think Sabu said in Sheik's book that he regretted turning down the Sultan deal. Sure, he wouldn't have been SABU but he also left a bunch of money on the table... he was set in his uncle's ways about never compromising, and it cost him a big contract here.

He could've always been a Mutoh/Muta-style character, no? Have Terry SR work normal matches and his alter ego Sabu do all the crazy shit.

 

1 hour ago, RazorbladeKiss87 said:

Were they offering guaranteed contracts at that point in WWF? I'd imagine Sabu as The Sultan wouldn't work a whole lot better than Rikishi as The Sultan and he'd kill the Sabu mystique with the newsletter (ECW mutants) fans who bought into it so I don't know that he'd have benefitted like he might have thought. It's hard to say though. 

Related, Matt on We Watch Wrestling mentioned that Sabu was in line for a WCW contract very shortly before they went under, so he could have probably sat at home like Nash, made money and healed up instead of whatever he did post ECW shutdown, but Heyman somehow fucked up the deal for Sabu (threatened to sue WCW or something).  So in summary, fuck Paul Heyman, may he spend eternity smoking turds in hell.

[zendragon]

Heyman claimed he had Sabu under contract in 95

[SirSmUgly]

25 minutes ago, zendragon said:

Heyman claimed he had Sabu under contract in 95

And in 2000, which I think is what Technico is talking about, correct me if I'm wrong. I think Sabu was having a pay dispute with Heyman and claimed he was free of his contract because Heyman breached it by not paying him for his work in a certain amount of time. 

[zendragon]

Then Damn Heyman fucked him twice on what was most likely a BS contract to begin with

[Cobra Commander]

also, they really didn't fully develop the idea*, but the Heat Wave 98 element of Sabu having to basically work as a junkball pitcher to hinder two people who could take as many risks as him is a fun idea... not sure if there was a market for that sort of Sabu as he got older but it probably would have been better for his body if he occasionally stabbed dudes with a pencil to stop them from doing as many big spots as Sabu used to do

(* - also, RVD worked that Heat Wave match like he couldn't communicate with Hayabusa/Shinzaki)

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, zendragon said:

Heyman claimed he had Sabu under contract in 95

 

1 hour ago, SirSmUgly said:

And in 2000, which I think is what Technico is talking about, correct me if I'm wrong. I think Sabu was having a pay dispute with Heyman and claimed he was free of his contract because Heyman breached it by not paying him for his work in a certain amount of time. 

Yeah, I meant 2000.  Regardless, the idea that any Heyman contract was enforceable and worth more than the paper it was printed on in mama Heyman’s basement or the local Kinko’s is hilarious.  And Heyman holding a guy to a “contract” while ECW was circling the drain is just straight up evil.

[AxB]

It was worse than that. When ECW died, Heyman reported to the court a list of everyone who they owed money to, and it read:

• Rob Van Dam $150,000
• Shane Douglas $145,000
• Tommy Dreamer $100,000
• Joey Styles $50,480
• Rhyno $50,000
• Francine Fournier $47,275
• Sabu $2

(This is from Sabu's book)

[zendragon]

Tod Gordon pretty much says in 95 Heyman pulled the contract out of his ass. He didn't have a particularly great relationship with Sabu over the years, the famous promo he cuts on him for no showing was due to Sabu choosing to honor his Japan dates. (which where his priority due to him only doing ECW tv tapings every couple of weeks) 

[SirSmUgly]

33 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

 

Yeah, I meant 2000.  Regardless, the idea that any Heyman contract was enforceable and worth more than the paper it was printed on in mama Heyman’s basement or the local Kinko’s is hilarious.  And Heyman holding a guy to a “contract” while ECW was circling the drain is just straight up evil.

Yep. According to Eric Bischoff, who I don't think has a reason to lie about this, Turner would usually quickly settle (though not with the racial discrimination lawsuit filed toward its end-of-life). He also said that Heyman would threaten WCW/Turner with lawsuits for the smallest things - also something I don't think he's lying about - and that Turner eventually found it easier to just not sign the guy Heyman was claiming rights to, pay him off, of whatever would make him go away that was ultimately negligible cost for WCW/Turner. 

So yeah, Heyman fucked Sabu out of what I think was reported as a two-year guaranteed deal because Turner didn't see the point in provoking litigation (especially as they were trying to offload the company anyway).  

Edited May 15 by SirSmUgly

[jm29195]

7 hours ago, paragon11 said:

It's a good question, but I don't think they were out of place.  WCW had a LOT of tag teams when they debuted and thru 96 (Harlem Heat, Nasty Boys, Blue Bloods, Steiners, Road Warriors, Faces of Fear) and they could work the different styles (at least Rocco could, Grunge not so much)

Sabu worked all of 7 matches in WCW (Disco, Alex Wright, JL x2, Kanyon, Tenta and an unknown opponent per Cagematch).  But I can't imagine many of the bigger names would have been able to work well with Sabu's style, which then relegates him to Cruiserweight and TV Title status at best?  Which no doubt would give us some great matches, but limits his ceiling.   

Please tell me that Sabu vs Tenta is out there somewhere. A dream match I never knew I wanted to see!

[paragon11]

11 minutes ago, jm29195 said:

Please tell me that Sabu vs Tenta is out there somewhere. A dream match I never knew I wanted to see!

If it is, it's probably in the WWE vault.  The match happened at a TV taping, but never made air.

[zendragon]

25 minutes ago, SirSmUgly said:

Yep. According to Eric Bischoff, who I don't think has a reason to lie about this, Turner would usually quickly settle (though not with the racial discrimination lawsuit filed toward its end-of-life). He also said that Heyman would threaten WCW/Turner with lawsuits for the smallest things - also something I don't think he's lying about - and that Turner eventually found it easier to just not sign the guy Heyman was claiming rights to, pay him off, of whatever would make him go away that was ultimately negligible cost for WCW/Turner. 

So yeah, Heyman fucked Sabu out of what I think was reported as a two-year guaranteed deal because Turner didn't see the point in provoking litigation (especially as they were trying to offload the company anyway).  

Heyman got dates on Sherri, Sullivan and Brian Pillman from suing WCW for using When Worlds Collide at a title for a PPV

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, AxB said:

It was worse than that. When ECW died, Heyman reported to the court a list of everyone who they owed money to, and it read:

• Rob Van Dam $150,000
• Shane Douglas $145,000
• Tommy Dreamer $100,000
• Joey Styles $50,480
• Rhyno $50,000
• Francine Fournier $47,275
• Sabu $2

(This is from Sabu's book)

That’s both funny and sad, but we have no emoji for that.  
 

I feel like he must’ve owed Dreamer and maybe Francine more…didn’t they keep the company afloat on their personal credit cards?

[odessasteps]

The Sheik episode of Dark Side also ended up as a nice tribute to Sabu. 

[JLowe]

On 5/12/2025 at 10:44 AM, For Great Justice said:

Man, this is a big one.

Like others have said, you can’t tell the story of pro wrestling without telling the story of Sabu. He instilled that sense of real danger that very, very few wrestlers in history have been able to do: Abby, Sheik, Stan Hansen, Sabu, Onita. That’s probably the list. 

He wasn’t pro wrestling’s Nirvana because Nirvana was too mainstream. But he was at minimum pro wrestling’s Mudhoney or Dinosaur Jr. Pro wrestling’s Eraserhead.

Late to this but he’s pro wrestling’s Dwarves