AEW - MAY 2025

[Matt D]

2 hours ago, Casey said:

The reason reality TV blew up in the first place is that it's extremely cheap to produce.

Like wrestling in the 50s.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

I saw an article about Willow today. It's mid May and Willow (a great worker & a great character that I think almost everyone agrees is a bright spot in AEW), has had only 4 matches in AEW this year.

Is this what people want? This circles back to my criticism about low match counts on Dynamite. The people that enjoy the longer matches, are you okay with only seeing people you like wrestle like 10-15 times a year because of it?

[Elsalvajeloco]

On 5/7/2025 at 8:52 AM, Mister TV said:

AEW this week will be at the Masonic Temple in Detroit, it's a really cool unique building and I'm interested if they'll incorporate it at all. There's a bunch of weird rooms where the Freemason's do whatever they do and there's things like a pool on maybe the 7th floor that never got finished because someone realized when it was filled with water it'd crash through celling below. I coach roller derby and we practice/play at the Masonic, we have practice Thursday night right above the theater AEW will be using.

Since there are not many mid sized arenas (really any off the top of my mind) in the Detroit, a lot of the boxing cards in Detroit post the height of the Kronk Gym have been at the Masonic Temple. Outside of the The Armory in Minneapolis, very few venues look aesthetically pleasing no matter what event you hold there. Maybe the the theater at MSG/the old Felt Forum and Paramount Theater and that's mainly cause the ceiling lighting is easily recognizable. Other than that, most of them have been shuttered or demolished or like The Myriad in OKC and Olympic Auditorium in LA, repurposed for something else.

[Mister TV]

32 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Since there are not many mid sized arenas (really any off the top of my mind) in the Detroit, a lot of the boxing cards in Detroit post the height of the Kronk Gym have been at the Masonic Temple. Outside of the The Armory in Minneapolis, very few venues look aesthetically pleasing no matter what event you hold there. Maybe the the theater at MSG/the old Felt Forum and Paramount Theater and that's mainly cause the ceiling lighting is easily recognizable. Other than that, most of them have been shuttered or demolished or like The Myriad in OKC and Olympic Auditorium in LA, repurposed for something else.

The only arena in Detroit besides Little Caesars is the Wayne State Fieldhouse, it holds maybe 2,500, I think TNA did a show their last year. It looks just like any other small college basketball arena, AEW made the right move using the Masonic. 

[twiztor]

i saw a small show at the Masonic a few months ago and it looked and felt great in person. Not sure if i've seen it on TV to know how it comes across.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

On 5/6/2025 at 1:35 PM, Kevin Wilson said:

 

Nitro 12/22/97:

• Fit Finlay vs. Eddie Guerrero
• Meng (w/Jimmy Hart) vs. Steve McMichael
• Hector Garza, Juventud Guerrera & Rey Misterio Jr. vs. La Parka, Psychosis & Silver King
• Hammer vs. Chris Benoit
• Rick Steiner (w/Ted DiBiase) vs. Scott Norton
• WCW United States Heavyweight Title Match: Curt Hennig (c) vs. Disco Inferno
• Lodi & Riggs vs. Harlem Heat (Booker T & Stevie Ray)
• Buff Bagwell vs. Chris Jericho
• Randy Savage (w/Miss Elizabeth) vs. Lex Luger

 

I found this interesting, because on the face of it, this seems like more the sort of thing I'd like to see from AEW. I think I'd just like to see them utilise more of their roster and in more interesting ways. But I don't know how much of the appeal of something like this is just nostalgia, and it's hard to gauge looking at it out of context, so I thought I'd have a go at transposing a card like the above to a modern AEW show, and to see if that looks more or less appealing than what we regularly get. Here's my attempt:

The Butcher Vs Nick Wayne: Eddy was obviously more established than Wayne is, but as a kind of sleazy lower-card heel who gets decent exposure and heat and is rocking a title, as Eddy was at the time, with a rep as a good worker, this seemed fairly close. I think it captures the style clash element and the randomness too.

Lance Archer Vs Powerhouse Hobbs: There's really no-one like Mongo, but Hobbs as a rough and ready, reasonably pushed and quite over and charismatic guy seemed as close as anyone. Archer/Meng seem close in terms of position and usage too.

Hologram/Komander/AR Fox Vs Rush/Dralistico/Mortos: If anything, Rush feels too big a deal for this match but it serves the same purpose as the Nitro match.

Bryan Keith Vs Daniel Garcia: Benoit was feuding with Raven at the time and going through the Flock. So for this imagine that Garcia is feuding with Jericho and going through the Learning Tree. There's really no Hammer-type on the AEW roster, which is probably a good thing.

Shelton Benjamin Vs Brian Cage: One half of a tag team against a burly utility man.

Adam Cole Vs Max Caster: Caster is really the modern day Disco I guess, in terms of where he is now at least. This would be an easy title defence for Cole, same as the Nitro match was for Hennig.

Buddy Matthews and Brody King Vs Peter Avalon and Aaron Solo: I just thought of the two jobbiest guys I could to be fed to Buddy and Brody.

Penelope Ford Vs Harley Cameron: I remembered I probably should have a women's match at this point. AEW doesn't really have midcard women though. They're either being pushed or they're there to do a job it seems like. Harley seems the closest analogue to 97 Jericho I could find in the women's division and Penelope slots in as her opponent kind of by default.

Claudio Castagnoli Vs Samoa Joe: Yeah, I just kept the main event from last night. Second most featured guy from big heel faction against popular main event babyface.

So, I dunno. Would people like to see more stuff like this? Probably not all on one show I'm guessing, but sprinkled in amongst the regular workrate stuff?

[The Natural]

Interested in Jon Moxley vs Samoa Joe in a Steel Cage match on AEW Dynamite next week because AEW has made a Steel Cage match mean something again. A Steel Cage match should stop outside interference...but that's a Death Riders regular occurrence like nWo run ins in WCW. I think AEW is running it here to free Mox and Samoa Joe up for Anarchy in the Arena at Double or Nothing.

[AxB]

2 hours ago, Yo-Yo's Roomie said:

Adam Cole Vs Max Caster: Caster is really the modern day Disco I guess, in terms of where he is now at least. This would be an easy title defence for Cole, same as the Nitro match was for Hennig.

 

The modern day Disco Inferno is Logan Paul. By which I mean, they have the same face.

[Technico Support]

"Should AEW feature more meaningless 5 or less minute matches, which will surely be bad matches, instead of fewer meaningless matches that are long and good?" is a real zen koan.  I mean I know I'd rather see actual good wrestling than the 2025 equivalent of 5 minutes of Ciclope vs Mike Enos just to get them on the card.  (I know I'll get a few people hopefully unironically saying this match sounds rad)  I understand this board skews "old school" but please take off the nostalgia goggles, friends. 

I actually feel like @NoFistsJustFlips is sort of making a fake argument here.  AEW does have some short matches and squashes already.  Nick Wayne just beat RHINO in like 3 minutes ffs. 

Edited May 8 by Technico Support

[zendragon]

On 5/7/2025 at 6:26 AM, AxB said:

I never understood why, whenever wrestlers did a big Tower of Doom spot, the person/ people on the bottom (doing the powerbomb) would also sell it. Like everyone else in the spot is taking a big bump from a point of elevation, but the person at the bottom is going from standing on the mat to... still standing on the mat. Is hitting a Powerbomb (where you don't even have to do the lifting part) so exhausting?

I assume powerbombing ten people is extra exhausting

 

On 5/7/2025 at 8:48 AM, Curt McGirt said:

Control the world, duh 

(that's a joke)

my granddad got to like level 27 or whatever level is allegedly right below where you find out the truth about everything

[JLowe]

Here’s my thing, if you’re gonna just make Top Flight look like shit, have them get squashed by Hurt Syndicate in an actual match rather than being single-handedly beaten down by MJF as part of a terrible angle.

[Technico Support]

I would have liked it if MJF misunderstood the mission and then spent like 10 minutes insulting Top Flight until they cried.  Then he could say, "see?  I hurt people too!"

[Go2Sleep]

3 hours ago, Yo-Yo's Roomie said:

I found this interesting, because on the face of it, this seems like more the sort of thing I'd like to see from AEW. I think I'd just like to see them utilise more of their roster and in more interesting ways. But I don't know how much of the appeal of something like this is just nostalgia, and it's hard to gauge looking at it out of context, so I thought I'd have a go at transposing a card like the above to a modern AEW show, and to see if that looks more or less appealing than what we regularly get. Here's my attempt:
...
...
So, I dunno. Would people like to see more stuff like this? Probably not all on one show I'm guessing, but sprinkled in amongst the regular workrate stuff?

Only comparison I think is way off is Finlay/Eddie which is obviously more of lower-card workrate match. Roddy Strong vs. Wheeler Yuta is probably more apt.

And yes, I think the answer is sprinkle in like 2-3 of these kind of matches while still allowing for some longer matches every week. The goal isn't to kill the workrate vibe of AEW, it's to make the matches that do go long feel more special and meaningful for the wrestlers involved. Also, there's nothing that says a short match has to be bad. Given the general quality of AEW's roster, I don't see why that would be the case very often. The fact that "short" equals "bad" or "squash" in peoples' minds is a big part of the problem (and this is not unique to AEW, this goes all the way back to when Raw went 3 hours).

[NoFistsJustFlips]

1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

"Should AEW feature more meaningless 5 or less minute matches, which will surely be bad matches, instead of fewer meaningless matches that are long and good?" is a real zen koan.  I mean I know I'd rather see actual good wrestling than the 2025 equivalent of 5 minutes of Ciclope vs Mike Enos just to get them on the card.  (I know I'll get a few people hopefully unironically saying this match sounds rad)  I understand this board skews "old school" but please take off the nostalgia goggles, friends. 

I actually feel like @NoFistsJustFlips is sort of making a fake argument here.  AEW does have some short matches and squashes already.  Nick Wayne just beat RHINO in like 3 minutes ffs. 

I promise its a genuine argument. I dont automatically attribute long matches to good matches. Theres tons of great workers in AEW who can tell awesome effective stories in 8 minutes. Some talent are actually better suited to it. I don't need these extended apron bump / outside the ring sequences is 4 matches on the same night just to artificially inflate times.

I'm not saying I hate long matches. I still want long good quality work rate matches. I just don't want *every match* to be shoe horned into that mold. You referenced Rhyno vs Nick Wayne. Not gonna win any match of the year polls, but it served a better purpose for both guys than a 15 min match would have.

For example, what makes Hobbs look better? A 15 minute 3 star match with Claudio? Or a 5 minute murking of Yuta where Hobbs gets to look dominant an explosive with power moves and flexing and not having to sell much of anything Goldberg style? I know my answer.

[SovietShooter]

47 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

For example, what makes Hobbs look better? A 15 minute 3 star match with Claudio? Or a 5 minute murking of Yuta where Hobbs gets to look dominant an explosive with power moves and flexing and not having to sell much of anything Goldberg style?

This is the conundrum of house shows going away. In the future, if you want a guy like Hobbs to headline a PPV and go 15-20mins you have to invest in that now. Goldberg is a perfect example; When the squashes ended and he had to work a regular match with an established star, it exposed him. Without House shows, there isn't the opportunity to throw raw talent out there in front of a crowd away from TV cameras and stretch them out. I mean, look at Jade Cargill. She worked 3min squashes for a year and never got any better. Conversely, when criticism of the AEW women's division was at it's peak, look at all the TV time AEW gave Willow, Sky Blue, Julia Hart, etc - and look at how much they've improved. 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

Good points. It's a weird era we're in where one company doesn't do house shows and the other very rarely does. My counter to the Goldberg thing would be well why did he ever have to go 15 minutes? Brock showed you can have a super top of the card money drawing monster that routinely only works 8-10 minute bomb fests. Like you've been saying, 3 ring circus. Not every character & not every performer should be smushed through the same mold. Should have a few Lesnar & Goldbergs bomb throwing hosses get runs on top. Should have a few Omega & Ospreys epic workrate guys that get runs on top. Should have a few Mox / Austin style brawlers that get runs on top. Just because you make it to the main event and win the world title doesn't mean they should make you wear a suit, do the slow plodding heel 2008 Jericho promos and have to go 20 minutes for every match. Variety is what keeps things fresh.

[mystman]

2 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

 

For example, what makes Hobbs look better? A 15 minute 3 star match with Claudio? Or a 5 minute murking of Yuta where Hobbs gets to look dominant an explosive with power moves and flexing and not having to sell much of anything Goldberg style? I know my answer.

That's great, if all you're interested in is elevating Hobbs. But you've just buried Yuta. And pissed off fans of Yuta (of which I am one). Having a good match that keeps both at least credible is far better, IMO.

[Kevin Wilson]

I laid back a little bit just so it didn't seem like I had a crusade against all this but mentioning Goldberg and Brock kinda broke my brain a bit as those were two wrestlers being pushed as "the" monster. And it did work (short term in Goldberg's case) but those are once a generation examples. They were wrestlers the respective promoter was hellbent on pushing to the moon and they booked around that idea but that's not the same as booking Saturn vs. Enos in a three minute match that ends in a countout. And it worked and it was fun but that doesn't mean there should be two or three matches every week in that mold as the entire midcard would be squashed in the process. TK did it a bit with Wardlow, he's not totally against the idea if the time/wrestler is right but its not going to be a weekly feature.

But I feel the need to point out that much of what has been talked about in here was never what AEW was meant to be. While "sport-based" was always an iffy term/theory and a can of worms I don't want to open, fans were expecting a more New Japan-ish presentation based on the opening press conferences, interviews, etc.  AEW was never aiming to be or presenting itself as trying to be a "Monday Night Wars" crash TV presentation but rather the opposite. All the Dynamites in 2019 had five or six matches with several 10+ minutes, they've always used short matches/squash matches rarely to get over a point (like they did last night) but not as part of the structure. I think there are legitimate and realistic areas AEW can improve their presentation that would still align with the promotion's mission but I just don't think that's one of them.

I will say I am legitimately shocked that TK hasn't brought back Dark or a Dark-like show as word was with this new contract they could have TV shows elsewhere since it wasn't exclusive. That was the perfect way to get new wrestlers in-ring time, have some squashes for the squashy people, and let wrestlers get experience. I think its a major whiff that there seem to be no plans to bring it back as that would be beneficial on many different levels.

[Curt McGirt]

EDIT: Moved to the weekly thread

Edited May 9 by Curt McGirt

[NoFistsJustFlips]

3 hours ago, mystman said:

That's great, if all you're interested in is elevating Hobbs. But you've just buried Yuta. And pissed off fans of Yuta (of which I am one). Having a good match that keeps both at least credible is far better, IMO.

I cannot disagree more. 50 / 50 booking that tries to not make anyone look too bad ends up not making anyone look good. In that scenario a definitive loss to Hobbs in 5 minutes isn't going to hurt Yuta long term. Losses are a part of the business. You shouldn't have to make sure every single performer gets the same amount of offense in every match. That's how you end up with a roster full of middle of the road unover guys.

There's a whole generation of fans that have grown up thinking someone is getting buried just because they took a definitive loss. That's just not true. Theres a lot of scenarios where you gain more with a loss than you do with a win. It's story telling. And even if the loss doesn't help you in the current moment, its easy to rehab people and get them back up the ladder when its their time.

Tl,dr: if you protect everyone, then you're promoting no one. 50 / 50 booking is for lazy bookers that don't understand the nuance of the medium.

[username]

3 hours ago, mystman said:

That's great, if all you're interested in is elevating Hobbs. But you've just buried Yuta. And pissed off fans of Yuta (of which I am one). Having a good match that keeps both at least credible is far better, IMO.

If you want someone to actually move up someone else generally has to move down. If you try to protect everyone you really don't push anyone.

EDIT: This also causes the "if we let them look competitive all the time then we don't ever have to actually let them win and they'll still be fine!" flawed thinking that AEW mightily struggles with at times.

Also someone going "5 minute match = automatically bad" hurt my heart a good bit.

Edited May 9 by username

[Casey]

3 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

TNA just cut (heh) blading so of course he does it. (BTW, TNA, great job at banning the blade the week your show is a dog collar match. loltna)

apparently Steve Maclin didn't get this memo.

 

[Curt McGirt]

It's pre-recorded, isn't it. That would explain. I'm waiting for it to come up on my TV right now so otherwise you have a crystal ball.

Also, TNA cancelling the blade and announcing it when they still have bloody matches in the can is definitely loltna

[Johnny Sorrow]

I just got my ticket for Fyter Fest Dynamite/ Collision in Denver. It's two years in a row Dynamite has been my birthday show. Last year was in Loveland on 6/5, my actual birthday, and my buddy Chris drove.  The day before I almost knocked out an asshole I coached with in front of our team.  I had a lot of murder rage to expel and AEW Dynamite and two gummies and many beers gave that to me on my birthday.

And now this year, I'm going to the super groovy Mission Ballroom in downtown Denver for four hours of wrestling the day before my birthday. And I'll be happy, not drinking, still two gummies deep. 
I barely watch AEW TV for a variety of reasons. I check out PPV's , and fast forward through a lot of it to watch the guys and gals I like. A lot of it just isn't my bag.

But I'm never not going to have a great time at a live pro wrestling show. I can't wait! The Mission Ballroom is incredible. 
edit: So clearly, Tony knows when I was born and where I live. Nice.

Edited May 9 by Johnny Sorrow

[mystman]

11 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I cannot disagree more. 50 / 50 booking that tries to not make anyone look too bad ends up not making anyone look good. In that scenario a definitive loss to Hobbs in 5 minutes isn't going to hurt Yuta long term. Losses are a part of the business. You shouldn't have to make sure every single performer gets the same amount of offense in every match. That's how you end up with a roster full of middle of the road unover guys.

There's a whole generation of fans that have grown up thinking someone is getting buried just because they took a definitive loss. That's just not true. Theres a lot of scenarios where you gain more with a loss than you do with a win. It's story telling. And even if the loss doesn't help you in the current moment, its easy to rehab people and get them back up the ladder when its their time.

Tl,dr: if you protect everyone, then you're promoting no one. 50 / 50 booking is for lazy bookers that don't understand the nuance of the medium.

Look, I've been watching wrestling for 35 years. A lot of that wrestling has been steered by a crazy old psychopath, and people who have learned about booking from him. Forgive me if I don't care to see another talented young wrestler being killed for the sake of elevating some muscle man. (No offense to Hobbs, who is fine)

AEW has a stacked roster, filled with talented men and women. Every match should at least be somewhat competitive. That doesn't mean you can't have five minutes matches. A flurry of offense to start, followed by murder works fine. But I'm not interested in watching someone just being used as a punching bag.

I will say,though, a massacre is fine if it's part of a larger narrative. Like a losing streak angle, or something like that.